Jump to content

  • IMPORTANT: PLEASE READ BEFORE POSTING

    Posting unsubstantiated rumours on this website is strictly forbidden.

    Demonland has made the difficult decision to not permit this platform to be used to discuss & debate the off-field issues relating to the Melbourne Football Club including matters currently being litigated between the Club & former Board members, board elections, the issue of illicit drugs in footy, the culture at the club & the personal issues & allegations against some of our players & officials ...

    We do not take these issues & this decision lightly & of course we believe that these serious matters affecting the club we love & are so passionate about are worthy of discussion & debate & I wish we could provide a place where these matters can be discussed in a civil & respectful manner.

    However these discussions unfortunately invariably devolve into areas that may be defamatory, libelous, spread unsubstantiated rumours & can effect the mental health of those involved. Even discussion & debate of known facts or media reports can lead to finger pointing, blame & personal attacks.

    The repercussion is that these discussions can open this website, it’s owners & it’s users to legal action & may result in this website being forced to shutdown.

    Our moderating team are all volunteers & cannot moderate the forum 24/7 & as a consequence problematic content that contravenes our rules & standards may go unnoticed for some time before it can be removed.

    We reserve the right to delete posts that offend against our above policy & indeed, to ban posters who are repeat offenders or who breach our code of conduct.

    WE HAVE BUILT A FANTASTIC ONLINE COMMUNITY AT DEMONLAND OVER THE PAST 23 YEARS & WE WOULD LIKE TO CONTINUE TO BE ABLE TO DISCUSS THE CLUB WE LOVE & ARE SO PASSIONATE ABOUT.

    Thank you for your continued support & understanding. Go Dees.


Training loads and tapering


Luke

Recommended Posts

Its hard to imagine that we run out of puff this early in the season. If so, heaven help us in July/August!

In a club story on the paleo diet, I recall the carbs would be increased in season to give players that energy boost on game day.

I'm guessing we don't have the balance right between protein/fat/carbs just yet.

So lethargy sets in (should be towards the end of a game, not before the first bounce!).

'Tapering', young players getting tired or some/all players affected by the protein/fats/carbs balance, could be 20% of the lethargy/tiredness last Saturday but IMO 80% was a complete lack of effort!

Edited by Lucifer's Hero
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great first post, and welcome Luke

My theory is simply, the players don't believe they can beat good teams yet, so they go into damage control the moment the good team hits back because that's what Roos trained them to do in 2014, they think they can't win so the effort drops a couple of % and that becomes really obvious against a top 3 team

Our awful kicking skills, lack of structure and inability to take contested marks besides hogan makes it hard to move the ball and build any confidence

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dave Misson is one of the only lingering members from Neeld era.

We wernt so lethargic when Bailey was around

That's because they would only run one way, Oli.

I'm also yet to hear a story from the Neeld and/or Roos era about players picking and choosing when they would run a 3km time trial during preseason.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I posted early in the week that I thought it possible we are training super hard now (during a run of games against the top 3 teams in the league) and will taper to best prepare for a run of more winnable games. No coincedence they had a very light week. I suspect in footy they have two taper periods if finals ate realistic. Port are an interesting case study. They are now running out of gas in last quarters where last year that was their strength

If this is the case, I'm wondering why Tyson and maybe Dawes weren't rested to help them get over their injury niggles. Tyson particularly looks like he needs a week or two rest with that knee of his. Not that I'm a medico, so just a guess.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's because they would only run one way, Oli.

I'm also yet to hear a story from the Neeld and/or Roos era about players picking and choosing when they would run a 3km time trial during preseason.

though we have had one player choosing not to play vs the reigning premiers.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry for making a post that adds nothing, but I have to say I love this kind of topic, because I know absolutely nothing about the subject. Both Luke's post and bing181's response sound like they could be reasonable to me.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If this is the case, I'm wondering why Tyson and maybe Dawes weren't rested to help them get over their injury niggles. Tyson particularly looks like he needs a week or two rest with that knee of his. Not that I'm a medico, so just a guess.

Fair point, particularly on Tyson. He does look proppy doesn't he. Perhaps training is flattening him and playing doesn't cause too much extra drama and they hope he'll come good through a freshen up, which if my (uneducated) theory is correct has commenced and will continue for a few weeks (taking in the bye).

Not having a shot at track watchers like Saty (honestly) but i thought it interesting that a commentator (not sure which one, or even radio or TV) raised in their call the 14km run. It is likely they got mail from an opposition track watcher (all clubs training is monitored to some extent by opposition clubs). It was this comment that Roos was asked about in his post game presser.

Roos was evasive on the 14km run (mentioned maybe it was 7) but acknowledged it had been a big week(s?) on the track and said they were learning and perhaps had gone too hard. He also said they would have a light week this week, which is apparently what has happened.

Now as posters have noted training is calibrated to the nth degree, a clear plan would be followed and little would be left to chance in terms of loads, intensity etc. Given that, it is very unlikely that they had accidentally trained them too hard or that they would suddenly change plans mid stream and have a light week.

No it is much more likely the hard training followed by a freshen up was part of a clear plan to i suspect maximise the chance of winning the next 3 games. Perhaps they did something similar at the beginning of the year, which if so was successful with the team looking fitter and faster (injuries notwithstanding) and snagging a couple of crucial wins (we could easily be win less now).

They would be be aware of the importance of wins and also of how badly they tired in the second half of last year. I'm assuming this all goes into their planning for training loads.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Someone hire this guy as the MFC fitness boss.

Cant be worse than Dave Misson.

I and many other's were under the impression that a 3rd pre-season under Misso would show his capabilities in the fitness area.

Injury completion rates.

Recuperation of the list.

Better run and sustainable run in the season.

A few things that are hard to measure but all the same must be taken into consideration when his contract is up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we have had a light week I am expecting a good performance this week.

I'm also wondering if the level of intensity will be a lot less than they have faced the past 3 weeks and so they may find it easier against a lower side. Though I expect the Dogs should still win but you never know.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I tweeted this Monday:

Paul Roos, expecting to lose to Hawthorn, smashes the Demons on the track on Thursday night - #Tanking? #EyeToFuture

And this:

He smashed them on the track Thursday, then after the game said he wouldn't even bother reviewing. Playing the long game.

Roos is cherry picking games to win, or working the players for long term development, or most likely a bit of both.

Apropos, it would be interesting to see a correlation between training loads and soft tissue injures. Wonder whether Salem's hammy was load related.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post Luke. Some really interesting points here. Your comments are equally relevant to Athletics/running. In regard to the difference between the sports, obviously, AFL players have a 6 month season and have to come up every week. So a team has to be fit enough to compete at a high level week in week out and the scrutiny of those performances is intense. However, the top teams do taper towards season end. Clubs like Melbourne do not have that luxury or the carrot of a finals gig at the end of a very hard home and away season. We do not have the talent or depth to rest players or cover for injuries. In recent years we have seen top sides rotate their players to freshen up. Clubs must try and get a balance between individual fitness and fatigue differences and the needs of the team. However, the point I am making is that all players play tired during the season. The top teams because of their talent and depth of talent can play tired but are good enough to win games. All professional or semi-professional athletes have the same challenge of having to compete tired at a high level during the season and still win or remain competitive. In most cases, they need to maintain a high training load during their season with the same challenge of remaining injury free before they begin their taper for a succession of their own finals campaign which can include state titles /national titles /selection trials/world titles/commonwealth/olympic games. I think the major difference between AFL players and other sports is that AFL players have much more pressure on them from clubs/supporters/media and the public at large. Every week they have to justify their place in the team and the team has to justify its position as a top club or improving club. However, there is no getting over the fact that top sportsmen and women have to regularly compete at a high level despite fatigue or being "tired."

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great first post Luke!

I'm not sure whether freshness and training loads is so much the issue, but more the fact the list is just so slow. Aside from Garlett and Lumumba there is no one with pace.

Tyson was slow last year as well but I think his knee has slowed him down even more this year.

It is interesting to see in the paper this morning that Melbourne is second last in the league for the differential between pressure applied and pressure received.

We are always under pressure because we are one-paced all over the ground except for Lumumba and Garlett, and we don't put on enough pressure because we are too slow and a lot of players don't have the desire to chase/tackle/smother like their life depends on it.

Misson is supposed to be a master and I have no idea about sports science, but I would have thought it would help if we recruited some midfielders with genuine pace. Watch players like Dylan Shiel put 5m between them and their opponent in the blink of an eye.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great first post Luke!

I'm not sure whether freshness and training loads is so much the issue, but more the fact the list is just so slow. Aside from Garlett and Lumumba there is no one with pace.

Agree 100%. Lack of leg speed is a huge issue for us.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great first post Luke please continue to add comment

It is a little apples and Oranges but still interesting insights and drew great responses

Excellent considered thoughts from most posters and would hope that our team coaches and support have a strategy even if they dont share it widely.

WE will probably find out more this week and over the season.

I only play sport at low level but know that tapering is important and will affect performance as much as absolute fitness. a minor injury distraction or cold can have a big impact. Results can impact , you never feel as sore after a win. Overtraining is easy to do.

MFC probably do have/need guys tapering at different points and that is why we have a squad rather than just 22 players that play every week. I hope we have enough staff who know about the issues you raised and are dealing with them

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What a great first post, and what a lot of information and insight actually shared!

If I was speculating, I'd imagine some of the theory is that we are trying to build up long-term fitness and strength and actually sacrificing some performance in the short term (read - whole seasons!) to get the 'kids' up to speed.

This goes to the whole issue of not having enough list depth. Ideally we'd have different groups of intensity.

-Kids being developed physically to the point they need to reach, and learning their craft in the slightly less maniacally fit VFL, where week-by-week fatigue is not so horrible.

-Peak 'bodies' that are storming along, and even if they are doing the same loads as the kids, are now developed enough to not be constantly worn down by it so much.

-Veterans who are somewhat 'managed' in their training loads and games compared to the others, partly because their consistency is established and they are so familiar with pushing themselves on gameday and self-managing their recovery routines.

One interesting side note - Dom Tyson played his best football right at the end of last season. His last 4 rounds or so were stellar. So he started well, slumped a bit mid-season, then finished well. I'd be intrigued to put all the pieces of that puzzle together. Could Tyson's season have been defined by initial enthusiasm, then weariness, then a final burst once the end was in sight? Let's face it, the seasons are long and cold for a Melbourne midfielder lately.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites


Tapering isn't just resting or having an easy week, it's much more specific than that, even moreso now that there's so much data available.

I don't believe there's any actual tapering going on in the AFL, and can find no evidence of it being used as part of a training strategy in similar season-long team sports, except for the examples I mentioned.

Of course, balancing heavier/lighter loads etc. is very much part of the AFL (or any professional sport for that matter), and there's no doubt that at certain points, players are pushed harder and then "freshened up".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Of course, balancing heavier/lighter loads etc. is very much part of the AFL (or any professional sport for that matter), and there's no doubt that at certain points, players are pushed harder and then "freshened up".

But that isn't considered tapering? I assume then tapering has a very narrow, specific meaning in sport.

That said the Adelaide example noted above (with Craig as the fitness advisor) was widely reported as tapering.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
  • Demonland Forums  

  • Match Previews, Reports & Articles  

    CENTIMETRES by Whispering Jack

    Our game is one where the result is often decided by centimetres; the touch of a fingernail, a split-second decision made by a player or official, the angle of vision or the random movement of an oblong ball in flight or in its bounce and trajectory. There is one habit that Melbourne seems to have developed of late in its games against Carlton which is that the Demons keep finding themselves on the wrong end of the stick in terms of the fine line in close games at times when centimetres mak

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons

    PREGAME: Rd 10 vs West Coast Eagles

    The Demons have a 10 day break before they head on the road to Perth to take on the West Coast Eagles at Optus Stadium on Sunday. Who comes in and who goes out?

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 84

    PODCAST: Rd 09 vs Carlton

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Sunday, 12th May @ 8:30pm. Join George, Binman & I as we analyse the Demons loss at the MCG against the Blues in the Round 09. You questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human. Listen & Chat LIVE:

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 18

    VOTES: Rd 09 vs Carlton

    Last week Captain Max Gawn consolidated his lead over reigning champion Christian Petracca in the Demonland Player of the Year Award. Steven May, Jake Lever, Jack Viney & Clayton Oliver make up the Top 5. Your votes for the loss against the Blues. 6, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 38

    POSTGAME: Rd 09 vs Carlton

    The Demons were blown out of the water in the first quarter and clawed their way back into the contest but it was a case of too little too late as they lost another close one to Carlton losing by 1 point at the MCG.  

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 476

    GAMEDAY: Rd 09 vs Carlton

    It's Game Day and the Demons are once again headlining another blockbuster at the MCG to kick off the round of footy. The Dees take on the Blues and have the opportunity to win their third game on the trot to solidify a spot in the Top 4 in addition to handing the Blues their third consecutive defeat to bundle them out of the Top 8.

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Melbourne Demons 959

    MELBOURNE BUSINESS by The Oracle

    In days of old, this week’s Thursday night AFL match up between the Demons and the Blues would be framed on the basis of the need to redress the fact that Carlton “stole” last year’s semi final away from Melbourne and with it, their hopes for the premiership.  A hot gospelling coach might point out to his charges that they were the better team on the night in all facets and that poor kicking for goal and a couple of lapses at the death cost them what was rightfully theirs. Moreover, now was

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Previews 1

    UNDER THE PUMP by KC from Casey

    The Casey Demons have been left languishing near the bottom of the VFL table after suffering a 32-point defeat at the hands of stand alone club Williamstown at Casey Fields on Sunday. The Demons suffered a major setback before the game even started when AFL listed players Ben Brown, Marty Hore and Josh Schache were withdrawn from the selected side. Only Schache was confirmed as an injury replacement, the other two held over as possible injury replacements for Melbourne’s Thursday night fixt

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Casey Articles

    THE MEANING OF FOOTY by Whispering Jack

    Throughout history various philosophers have grappled with the meaning of life. Aristotle, Aquinas, Kant, Nietzsche, Schopenhauer and a multitude of authors of diverse religious texts all tried. As society became more complex, the question became attached to specific endeavours in life even including sporting pursuits where such questions arose among our game’s commentariat as, “what is the meaning of football”? Melbourne coach Simon Goodwin must be tired of dealing with such a dilemma but,

    Demonland
    Demonland |
    Match Reports 1
  • Tell a friend

    Love Demonland? Tell a friend!

×
×
  • Create New...