Training loads and tapering

[Tough Kent 2,137]

And to those who say we look leg-heavy and fatigued... You do look slow and leg-heavy when you can't get your hands on the footy.

[Lucifers Hero 40,315]

Its hard to imagine that we run out of puff this early in the season. If so, heaven help us in July/August!

In a club story on the paleo diet, I recall the carbs would be increased in season to give players that energy boost on game day.

I'm guessing we don't have the balance right between protein/fat/carbs just yet.

So lethargy sets in (should be towards the end of a game, not before the first bounce!).

'Tapering', young players getting tired or some/all players affected by the protein/fats/carbs balance, could be 20% of the lethargy/tiredness last Saturday but IMO 80% was a complete lack of effort!

Edited May 21, 2015 by Lucifer's Hero

[Ted Lasso 19,549]

Great first post, and welcome Luke

My theory is simply, the players don't believe they can beat good teams yet, so they go into damage control the moment the good team hits back because that's what Roos trained them to do in 2014, they think they can't win so the effort drops a couple of % and that becomes really obvious against a top 3 team

Our awful kicking skills, lack of structure and inability to take contested marks besides hogan makes it hard to move the ball and build any confidence

[The Chazz 4,077]

Dave Misson is one of the only lingering members from Neeld era.

We wernt so lethargic when Bailey was around

That's because they would only run one way, Oli.

I'm also yet to hear a story from the Neeld and/or Roos era about players picking and choosing when they would run a 3km time trial during preseason.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

I posted early in the week that I thought it possible we are training super hard now (during a run of games against the top 3 teams in the league) and will taper to best prepare for a run of more winnable games. No coincedence they had a very light week. I suspect in footy they have two taper periods if finals ate realistic. Port are an interesting case study. They are now running out of gas in last quarters where last year that was their strength

If this is the case, I'm wondering why Tyson and maybe Dawes weren't rested to help them get over their injury niggles. Tyson particularly looks like he needs a week or two rest with that knee of his. Not that I'm a medico, so just a guess.

[monoccular 17,572]

That's because they would only run one way, Oli.

I'm also yet to hear a story from the Neeld and/or Roos era about players picking and choosing when they would run a 3km time trial during preseason.

though we have had one player choosing not to play vs the reigning premiers.

[Nasher 33,617]

Sorry for making a post that adds nothing, but I have to say I love this kind of topic, because I know absolutely nothing about the subject. Both Luke's post and bing181's response sound like they could be reasonable to me.

[binman 43,717]

If this is the case, I'm wondering why Tyson and maybe Dawes weren't rested to help them get over their injury niggles. Tyson particularly looks like he needs a week or two rest with that knee of his. Not that I'm a medico, so just a guess.

Fair point, particularly on Tyson. He does look proppy doesn't he. Perhaps training is flattening him and playing doesn't cause too much extra drama and they hope he'll come good through a freshen up, which if my (uneducated) theory is correct has commenced and will continue for a few weeks (taking in the bye).

Not having a shot at track watchers like Saty (honestly) but i thought it interesting that a commentator (not sure which one, or even radio or TV) raised in their call the 14km run. It is likely they got mail from an opposition track watcher (all clubs training is monitored to some extent by opposition clubs). It was this comment that Roos was asked about in his post game presser.

Roos was evasive on the 14km run (mentioned maybe it was 7) but acknowledged it had been a big week(s?) on the track and said they were learning and perhaps had gone too hard. He also said they would have a light week this week, which is apparently what has happened.

Now as posters have noted training is calibrated to the nth degree, a clear plan would be followed and little would be left to chance in terms of loads, intensity etc. Given that, it is very unlikely that they had accidentally trained them too hard or that they would suddenly change plans mid stream and have a light week.

No it is much more likely the hard training followed by a freshen up was part of a clear plan to i suspect maximise the chance of winning the next 3 games. Perhaps they did something similar at the beginning of the year, which if so was successful with the team looking fitter and faster (injuries notwithstanding) and snagging a couple of crucial wins (we could easily be win less now).

They would be be aware of the importance of wins and also of how badly they tired in the second half of last year. I'm assuming this all goes into their planning for training loads.

[jazza 1,323]

Someone hire this guy as the MFC fitness boss.

Cant be worse than Dave Misson.

I and many other's were under the impression that a 3rd pre-season under Misso would show his capabilities in the fitness area.

Injury completion rates.

Recuperation of the list.

Better run and sustainable run in the season.

A few things that are hard to measure but all the same must be taken into consideration when his contract is up.

[DistrACTION Jackson 9,205]

If we have had a light week I am expecting a good performance this week.

I'm also wondering if the level of intensity will be a lot less than they have faced the past 3 weeks and so they may find it easier against a lower side. Though I expect the Dogs should still win but you never know.

[Tony Tea 2,809]

I tweeted this Monday:

Paul Roos, expecting to lose to Hawthorn, smashes the Demons on the track on Thursday night - #Tanking? #EyeToFuture

And this:

He smashed them on the track Thursday, then after the game said he wouldn't even bother reviewing. Playing the long game.

Roos is cherry picking games to win, or working the players for long term development, or most likely a bit of both.

Apropos, it would be interesting to see a correlation between training loads and soft tissue injures. Wonder whether Salem's hammy was load related.

[hemingway 7,630]

Great post Luke. Some really interesting points here. Your comments are equally relevant to Athletics/running. In regard to the difference between the sports, obviously, AFL players have a 6 month season and have to come up every week. So a team has to be fit enough to compete at a high level week in week out and the scrutiny of those performances is intense. However, the top teams do taper towards season end. Clubs like Melbourne do not have that luxury or the carrot of a finals gig at the end of a very hard home and away season. We do not have the talent or depth to rest players or cover for injuries. In recent years we have seen top sides rotate their players to freshen up. Clubs must try and get a balance between individual fitness and fatigue differences and the needs of the team. However, the point I am making is that all players play tired during the season. The top teams because of their talent and depth of talent can play tired but are good enough to win games. All professional or semi-professional athletes have the same challenge of having to compete tired at a high level during the season and still win or remain competitive. In most cases, they need to maintain a high training load during their season with the same challenge of remaining injury free before they begin their taper for a succession of their own finals campaign which can include state titles /national titles /selection trials/world titles/commonwealth/olympic games. I think the major difference between AFL players and other sports is that AFL players have much more pressure on them from clubs/supporters/media and the public at large. Every week they have to justify their place in the team and the team has to justify its position as a top club or improving club. However, there is no getting over the fact that top sportsmen and women have to regularly compete at a high level despite fatigue or being "tired."

[ManDee 7,215]

Hello everyone,

Long time lurker, first time poster.

Luke

Nice work thanks Luke the Lurker

[Watts Jurrah Dunn? 735]

Great first post Luke!

I'm not sure whether freshness and training loads is so much the issue, but more the fact the list is just so slow. Aside from Garlett and Lumumba there is no one with pace.

Tyson was slow last year as well but I think his knee has slowed him down even more this year.

It is interesting to see in the paper this morning that Melbourne is second last in the league for the differential between pressure applied and pressure received.

We are always under pressure because we are one-paced all over the ground except for Lumumba and Garlett, and we don't put on enough pressure because we are too slow and a lot of players don't have the desire to chase/tackle/smother like their life depends on it.

Misson is supposed to be a master and I have no idea about sports science, but I would have thought it would help if we recruited some midfielders with genuine pace. Watch players like Dylan Shiel put 5m between them and their opponent in the blink of an eye.

[binman 43,717]

Great first post Luke!

I'm not sure whether freshness and training loads is so much the issue, but more the fact the list is just so slow. Aside from Garlett and Lumumba there is no one with pace.

Agree 100%. Lack of leg speed is a huge issue for us.

[dpositive 1,672]

Great first post Luke please continue to add comment

It is a little apples and Oranges but still interesting insights and drew great responses

Excellent considered thoughts from most posters and would hope that our team coaches and support have a strategy even if they dont share it widely.

WE will probably find out more this week and over the season.

I only play sport at low level but know that tapering is important and will affect performance as much as absolute fitness. a minor injury distraction or cold can have a big impact. Results can impact , you never feel as sore after a win. Overtraining is easy to do.

MFC probably do have/need guys tapering at different points and that is why we have a squad rather than just 22 players that play every week. I hope we have enough staff who know about the issues you raised and are dealing with them

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

So, when I see the players not chasing hard it's because they have been training too much and need a rest...

I think it's because they are mentally soft and no one leads the club.

[Little Goffy 14,636]

What a great first post, and what a lot of information and insight actually shared!

If I was speculating, I'd imagine some of the theory is that we are trying to build up long-term fitness and strength and actually sacrificing some performance in the short term (read - whole seasons!) to get the 'kids' up to speed.

This goes to the whole issue of not having enough list depth. Ideally we'd have different groups of intensity.

-Kids being developed physically to the point they need to reach, and learning their craft in the slightly less maniacally fit VFL, where week-by-week fatigue is not so horrible.

-Peak 'bodies' that are storming along, and even if they are doing the same loads as the kids, are now developed enough to not be constantly worn down by it so much.

-Veterans who are somewhat 'managed' in their training loads and games compared to the others, partly because their consistency is established and they are so familiar with pushing themselves on gameday and self-managing their recovery routines.

One interesting side note - Dom Tyson played his best football right at the end of last season. His last 4 rounds or so were stellar. So he started well, slumped a bit mid-season, then finished well. I'd be intrigued to put all the pieces of that puzzle together. Could Tyson's season have been defined by initial enthusiasm, then weariness, then a final burst once the end was in sight? Let's face it, the seasons are long and cold for a Melbourne midfielder lately.

[binman 43,717]

An enjoyable thread. Differences of opinions without a single rude word or dismissive post. Long may it reign.

[bing181 9,328]

Tapering isn't just resting or having an easy week, it's much more specific than that, even moreso now that there's so much data available.

I don't believe there's any actual tapering going on in the AFL, and can find no evidence of it being used as part of a training strategy in similar season-long team sports, except for the examples I mentioned.

Of course, balancing heavier/lighter loads etc. is very much part of the AFL (or any professional sport for that matter), and there's no doubt that at certain points, players are pushed harder and then "freshened up".

[binman 43,717]

Of course, balancing heavier/lighter loads etc. is very much part of the AFL (or any professional sport for that matter), and there's no doubt that at certain points, players are pushed harder and then "freshened up".

But that isn't considered tapering? I assume then tapering has a very narrow, specific meaning in sport.

That said the Adelaide example noted above (with Craig as the fitness advisor) was widely reported as tapering.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

So have we been tapering since 1964?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

An enjoyable thread. Differences of opinions without a single rude word or dismissive post. Long may it reign.

Get stuffed.

[binman 43,717]

So have we been tapering since 1964?

Playing the long game

[binman 43,717]

Get stuffed.

Yes i agree, they train until stuffed then freshen up. Good point, well made.