Football 101

[beelzebub 23,369]

Maybe that mistake alone didnt cost the game per se but it definitely facilitated them winning it !!

[rjay 24,921]

Viney has come in and had to be the 3rd best mid in his first year, and the 6th best mid in his 2nd and 3rd years.

Of course he looks out of his depth at times - he is out of his depth.

Nathan Jones had similar criticisms and he had enough internal drive to improve and become accustomed to the responsibility he had to burden.

I think you sum it up well here 'rpfc' and I would expect similar improvement from Viney given time.

Some expected Viney to be in the leadership group this year and I had complaints when I said he hadn't established himself yet. He hasn't and he's still finding his way.

[titan_uranus 25,018]

Maybe that mistake alone didnt cost the game per se but it definitely facilitated them winning it !!

Couldn't have been worse timing for Viney, for it to lead to the winning goal, but at the very least it got talked up a bit and maybe will reinforce the broader point, which is that kicks like that are not good and, no matter what time of game, should be avoided. Whether it's Cross not calling for it, or those around him encouraging him to kick down the line, or Viney having the understanding to not kick across goal, maybe at least it'll be focused on during training before Round 1.

[Macca 16,967]

I think you sum it up well here 'rpfc' and I would expect similar improvement from Viney given time.

Some expected Viney to be in the leadership group this year and I had complaints when I said he hadn't established himself yet. He hasn't and he's still finding his way.

We continually hold up Nathan Jones as the benchmark 'rjay' but in reality, the benchmark is what 'normally' occurs. And we all know what that normality is (unfortunately)

We need to continue to import example setters and quality players ... and I don't really care how old they are. If we had a half a dozen Cross types would that be such a bad thing? It would be great if we could hold up N Jones, Tyson, Lumumba, Cross, Vince, Salem, Hogan and 4 or 5 others as the benchmark. The truth is we're a long way short of having a dozen pro's leading the way.

The key going forward will be our recruiting outside of our draft picks (17/18 year old's who may or may not become good players)

Roos and his crew know this and our last 2 off seasons has seen a change in philosophy at our club - sanity prevails (that still doesn't make things automatically successful but at least we're now seeing a much smarter method of building a list)

The example for our club and our sport is how things are done in other sports around the world. I can't imagine a top club in any of the other football codes placing so much stock in a bunch of kids. It just doesn't happen.

Edit: added more for clarity

Edited March 22, 2015 by Macca

[rjay 24,921]

We continually hold up Nathan Jones as the benchmark but in reality, the benchmark is what "normally' occurs. And we all know what that normality is (unfortunately)

Agree with your post 'Macca'...in the case of the Jones comparison though what I was getting at more is the supporters were deriding Jones not so long ago for similar things that Viney is wearing now.

Jones is a great example of a player developing his game and should show the supporters that what you get in year one is not what you get in years 5 and beyond...that is if the player has the inherent ability and desire to work they can be good players.

[Macca 16,967]

Agree with your post 'Macca'...in the case of the Jones comparison though what I was getting at more is the supporters were deriding Jones not so long ago for similar things that Viney is wearing now.

Jones is a great example of a player developing his game and should show the supporters that what you get in year one is not what you get in years 5 and beyond...that is if the player has the inherent ability and desire to work they can be good players.

Fair enough ... but there are numerous other players who have been derided who never got any better after that derision. I usually don't make those calls but others have and they've been on the money. I could give you a list of the players names but most of them are gone now. However, quite a few are still on our list so what are those who are dissatisfied supposed to say?

Jones is an aberration unfortunately. The good news is that Roos and co. have decided to recruit with a smarter method. I know it's been said before but this time around, we look to be on the right track. We need to continue on our path of bringing in established talent. 2 quality free agents at years end should be the goal (that's just for starters)

I never liked the youth policy - footy was changing (or had changed) whilst we were in the midst of our one-way style of recruiting. The game became far more contested and we didn't adapt.

[Deeoldfart 8,030]

If you looked at tonights game then he makes some fair points. The thing that really concerned me was that at his size he is getting caught trying to break tackles and do too much. He will really need to change up his game.

........ and when he gets caught he bucks around on the ground, without making even a half genuine attempt the get the ball out. It's extremely obvious, and he gets pinged 9 times out of 10.

[beelzebub 23,369]

........ and when he gets caught he bucks around on the ground, without making even a half genuine attempt the get the ball out. It's extremely obvious, and he gets pinged 9 times out of 10.

I noticed that too. Needs to get cleverer indeed

[Forest Demon 4,681]

My issue with Viney is he always tries to burst away from congestion like a Dangerfield but he is neither powerful or quick enough to do so at this level. He gets the ball in tight but needs to look to use his hands more in that situation.

Saying that, he still provides plenty, just an improvement I think he could make.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Forest Demon

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

One mistake didn't lose the game.

20 stupid turnovers cost us the game.

Hogan dropping that lace out pass from Toumpas.

Bail Dropping an uncontested mark

Gawn handballing to Tyson laying on the ground

Dawes dropping another chest mark

Grimes stupid floating kick in landing directly to an opponent.

I could go on but I'm getting writers cramp.

there were two instances of a player handballing it to a teammate who had an opponent directly next to him so he was instantly tackled. It is such a stupid mistake it is hard to believe we saw it..twice. Seriously a five year old would have the common sense to realise that you just DON'T DO THAT EVER

[IRW 1,387]

I noticed that too. Needs to get cleverer indeed

or transfer to Rugby League

[Dockett 32 1,239]

There's two ways Viney can respond and a kick in the nuts can often sharpen your focus.

[IRW 1,387]

If he ,and the club, havnt worked out that he's too slow and cant kick by now then its unrealistic to think that, unlike Jones, he's going to get much better with experience

If anything since his first game when it was line ball between him and Wines as to who deserved the Rising Star he's got worse!

[jazza 1,323]

Why would an AFL football even consider kicking across the face of goal deep in defence?

Players will make mistakes when under pressure, tired or when rushed but what Viney did should never happen.

The idea of kicking across the face of goal should not even enter his mind. It's like suddenly deciding that drinking battery acid is a good idea, it just should not ever happen, especially from a free kick with no pressure.

Thank christ it was a pracky and PR can point it out all year to the group.

Worth the arsekicking in this case.

Carry on,nothing in it.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

God it annoys me how much importance people place on a player's speed. Of all the attributes of a good player this is one of the least important. It's football not the goddam olympics

[Wiseblood 24,637]

God it annoys me how much importance people place on a player's speed. Of all the attributes of a good player this is one of the least important. It's football not the goddam olympics

Speed is important - in their mind, not in their legs. Footy IQ is the key, and we haven't had enough guys with that over the past few years.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

God it annoys me how much importance people place on a player's speed. Of all the attributes of a good player this is one of the least important. It's football not the goddam olympics

I agree to a point, but speed over the first five or so steps is paramount.

[dazzledavey36 54,913]

Btw who was Viney actually kicking it too??

[Wiseblood 24,637]

Btw who was Viney actually kicking it too??

Who cares...? The kid made a mistake in a meaningless pre-season game. He'll learn from it.

[Moneider96 1,045]

Btw who was Viney actually kicking it too??

Daniel Cross. It's on the AFL website

Edited March 22, 2015 by Moneider96

[Coq au vin 755]

Who cares...? The kid made a mistake in a meaningless pre-season game. He'll learn from it.

If it doesn't matter then nothing matters. Of course it matters. Winning the game when it's close and exciting is important. Having the composure to do the right thing and not the blatantly obviously f'ing stupid dumb thing is important. Practice makes perfect, not worse.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

If it doesn't matter then nothing matters. Of course it matters. Winning the game when it's close and exciting is important. Having the composure to do the right thing and not the blatantly obviously f'ing stupid dumb thing is important. Practice makes perfect, not worse.

I didn't say the act of kicking it didn't matter, it was who is was being kicked to. Wouldn't matter if Roos had come running out to the back flank.

I said the kid made a mistake, which he did, and I said he'll learn from it too. I'm not sure how your views differ to mine.

[hardtack 10,537]

If it doesn't matter then nothing matters. Of course it matters. Winning the game when it's close and exciting is important. Having the composure to do the right thing and not the blatantly obviously f'ing stupid dumb thing is important. Practice makes perfect, not worse.

Exactly, which is why, as Wiseblood so rightly said, he will learn from it.

[beelzebub 23,369]

Who cares...? The kid made a mistake in a meaningless pre-season game. He'll learn from it.

mistakes a re never meaningless

its a mistake to think so

fcuk ups are fcuk ups no matter where or what

That he learns..well hope so... and by way of argument what is the value if the deed had none...as you suggest ?

[Wiseblood 24,637]

mistakes a re never meaningless

its a mistake to think so

fcuk ups are fcuk ups no matter where or what

That he learns..well hope so... and by way of argument what is the value if the deed had none...as you suggest ?

For the second time, I wasn't talking about the mistake, I was only pointing out that it's meaningless who he was kicking it to - it's not important. What's important is that he made a mistake and he needs to learn from it.