Post Match Discussion - Round 22

[Oneday 248]

I went to the dawks v cats game tonight with a friend, and I found myself as I was walking out thinking are we ever going to see the MFC anywhere near that class?

I am so tired of this empty feeling that the MFC continually impose on all of us.

[jnrmac 20,058]

I had a great night. I didn't watch the game.

I fell so much better than I did last week.

[Coup Cooper 610]

Will anyone actually bother going to Etihad next week?

Not a chance!

[jnrmac 20,058]

How did Garland and Watts go?

[dee-luded 2,959]

I went to the dawks v cats game tonight with a friend, and I found myself as I was walking out thinking are we ever going to see the MFC anywhere near that class?

I am so tired of this empty feeling that the MFC continually impose on all of us.

we are all also a part of the problem over the years.., we always want another flower, another stretch, but not another Grinter or Whelan. or Brett Lovett or Graeme Yeates.

we keep wanting the stylish flashy ones, & it gets us nowhere, but flashes of brilliance & too much disappointment.

we have to become a hardened tough rugged club, & our teams must replicate that attitude on-field.

so we have to recruit accordingly.

[Axis of Bob 11,785]

We win the footy, but West Coast are consistently able to get outside us and we struggle to get outside them. It means that they move it too easily while we struggle to move it at all.

Frustrating, but it has been a theme.

[What 18,810]

really exciting game coming next week

if Dawes kicks 2 goals it means a Demon player will crack the 20 goal barrier for 2014!

Edited August 23, 2014 by hogans_heroes

[dee-luded 2,959]

the jurrahs daveys bennells mortons gysberts cooks bails nichos, etc, haven't helped us at all

give me the brad eberts instead of the mortons, the prestias instead of the daveys, the sloanes instead of the jurrahs, the sewells instead of the gysberts,

[leucopogon 1,519]

Just got back from the game, wow that was quite something to behold.

I don't even know where to begin really. I'll just list some things otherwise it will be a rant and a half:

1) Watts is just a joke and the sooner he is off the list the better, was toweled up by Jamie Bennell to half time. Looked like he was wearing ice skates.

2) Melbourne players are the worst tackling side in the comp bar none

3) They are also the least skilled and composed side (but we knew that already)

4) They are also the laziest side in the comp. I lost count of the number of times our guys just let their opponent have 5 m and with their skills we were never in the race, even if they didn't hit a target,they usually had enough space to still win the ball.

5) Eagles worked 3 x harder than our guys even when they had a 10 goal lead, Lecras was running from one end of the ground to the other just making our guys look like Saturday amateurs (no offence amateurs)

6) Kent has a long, long, long way to go,and I'm starting to really have my doubts about his ability. The amount of times he just stood next to his opponent in the forward line and offered no leads nothing was just criminal

7) Our stoppage work could be so much better, we won our fair share of clearances but it was never a clean win, always a rush or a slow chain of backwards handballs to a guy under enormous pressure before a scrappy up and under out to the boundary line, Eagles clearances on the other hand always players shrugging off our tackles and hitting blokes running past at pace then delivering lace out inside 50. it was chalk vs cheese really. And the way we give blokes a metre or two at centre bounces is just so unaccountable (I'm talking about Nate Jones, Bernie Vince, Tyson, the lot of them were really loose)

8) Frawley was again just going through the motions, nothing new there

9) I hate to bring this up as it seems like such a poor excuse ....but we were absolutely crucified by the umpires, maybe it seemed worse than it was because I was surrounded by other frustrated Dees fans but it seemed ridiculously one sided for the first 3 quarters and West Coast must have had at least 5 or 6 goals that came directly from free kicks (mostly coming in the opening minutes of quarters too)

10) The number of times we handball to someones feet or god forbid actually into someones hands and then they fumble it is almost unbelievable for an AFL side just laughable

11) I saw very little to commend at all in that game, I thought Rohan Bail played ok besides that shocking crossfield pass to a 2 on 1 with Neville Jetta that resulted in a goal to the eagles but besides that he played decent. The only others that were not awful were N. Jones, Vince, Cross and maybe Tyson (I'll have to watch the game again). Fitzpatrick looked pretty rusty, although the goals were welcome, but besides those goals, he really was slow and not very clean with his hands.

12) I think it's safe to say the Jeremy Howe backline experiment is a complete failure

13) The players did something very strange at the end of the game, they wandered slowly towards the side of the ground where the Melbourne away fans were (I was assuming they were coming to give us fans a thankyou for the support) but then as they neared the 50 m line closest to where we were, they stopped seemed to talk amongst themselves and then without even clapping the fans or waving to us walked back the other way, just as aimlessly as they had in our direction initially and slowly made their way back to the race) I thought this was highly insulting to us fans that had sat through one of the worst displays of football imaginable. I'm not sure what story was with this but it seemed like Dawes was the one that instigated the "turn-around" move that shunned us fans. quite bizarre really.

14) Russell Robertson and the Wiz were sitting amongst us fans, the Wiz had a very young baby (couldn't tell if it was a boy or girl), Wiz left at half time, Robbo stuck it out to the end. At one point I turned to Robbo and said: "can you please teach them how to take a mark!" this was after Gawn had failed to outmark Shannon Hurn for the umpteenth time.

15) The lack of organisation in the backline every time there was a centre bounce was quite diabolical. Players hurridely swapping men, blokes sprinting up to the wing to man up loose Eagles, I'm not talking once or twice this happened either, it was every single bloody time the ball went into the middle for a restart, I just couldn't believe it really. Is this normal?

16) This isn't the first time I've written these words, we still try and gang tackle players or have 2 or sometimes 3 guys get sucked into the ball carrier only to leave a couple of free players for the easy one over the top. It happened repeatedly, and the Eagles torched us for it many times. We also never do the 1% type things well like the shepherds and the blocks, we telegraph all of our passes either by hand or foot and the Eagles were always right on the hammer of the receiver putting extreme pressure on. The simple things like a big tall taking a mark at half forward and then giving off to a runner going past behind him with someone hot on his hammer but not providing the block to give him a metre or two of room, that was the norm for us.

17) Pretty critical here I know, but the warm up drills are real junior footy type stuff. PIcking up and handballing to a guy standing still rolling balls at them, no wonder they always handball to stationary targets, that's how they warm up!!

18) And lastly, had one of the saddest walks back to the car at the end of the game as my little 6 year old son (who'd attended his first game) had started crying in the 3rd quarter telling me in a broken voice "Why did the umpire give the Eagle the free kick". We made it through to the end without any further tears, but then on the walk back to the car poor little bloke balled his eyes out for a solid 20 minutes as we walked amongst a bunch of happy Eagles fans (to their credit nobody said anything to push it in our face, that's what Dockers fans do, and we even had a couple of old ladies offering a sympathetic remark, such is the feeling of pity that other supporters now have for us Melbourne fans, pretty bloody ordinary finish to the night. I didn't really know what to tell him, just the usual stuff "it's only a game" "we'll be better next year" "the players aren't trying, but next year most of them won't be there" (how I hope this is true). To be honest, I have very little belief that they will actually get better but I had to tell the poor kid something. When I dropped a philosophical concept on him I knew I was really starting to scrape the barrel, told him "listen, just remember how bad this night feels because it'll make it all the more satisfying when we actually start winning again"

19) After all of that, he said " Dad, I still don't feel any better, can you tell me a story to cheer me up on the drive home". Ended up having to make up a story where he gets drafted at pick 5 by the Dees (coached by Nathan Jones) 10 years from now and kicks a winning goal after the final siren in his debut game. He drifted off to sleep after that.

What a shocking night. Nice to get some things off my chest.

[Pennant St Dee 13,171]

The boys put the effort in but the turnovers are just killing us, we really struggled once we got to half forward line we stopped/propped and turned it over. I am not as down as I was last season because as slight as it is we have improved. We can find the ball which is something we struggled to do under Neeld so that is a plus

Very top heavy and once the ball hit the ground in our forward line we were toast, I gave big Fitzy a vote for effort tonight but sorry if we are being ruthless he is not going to make it, will have the occasional decent game but one of them to say no been to long try something else. Jack Watts must be traded whilst we can still get something for him, he just doesn't have the make up to utilise the tools at his disposal. Garland what has happened to the player of a couple of years ago, really struggling with confidence.

So whilst I see improvement still a few tough years ahead

[Pipefitter 2,159]

The last 5-6 weeks have almost been identical in style. Boring, unthreatening , and unskilled.

[JackVineyForPresident 310]

Just read a thing or two about Tyson taking too long to make decisions, but i dont think enough people have put it into perspective.

Dom has no one running for him, no targets or support, therefore he holds the ball too long and tries to create options and space. He is actually very evasive and usually does create a fair bit of time, just sometimes gets caught.

As we become better, this will stop happening. It doesnt say much about Dom as a player, but rather, he needs options and support.

[Deespicable 2,726]

Having just watched the replay, I've got to say that Leucopogon pretty much nailed it with all of his 19 points.

But hey, when you pick 10 guys over 192cm for a night game on the biggest ground in Australia, what do you expect?

We were hardly going to have the speed to run and carry.

I think Roosy was hoping that having Watts on Bennell was going to be a fantastic match up for us with his height advantage. But Jack's form in one-on-ones is so down that even the whoosiest defender we've had in history was able to push him off and run off him with ease.

Matt Jones also gave us another reminder as to why he's not good enough to make it as an outside runner - we've now played him for 41 games and not once has he been in my best five. Even Bennell had one good game at Melbourne - (night match v Geelong).

Sadly Fitzy was our most effective forward on the night - god knows how he snapped truly with his balldrop but he did - twice.

Jetta had his first shocker for the year, Garland can at least claim an injury excuse, while one of Dawesy or Jamar has to sit out next week so we can see Hogan in action to lift our spirits for next year.

I still don't get why our big forwards can never time their runs so they are actually leading into space. Haven't they ever heard of screening for one another.

The only point I disagree with Leucopogon on is with Howey. While he cocked up one pass to Jetta that cost a goal, he was always on the move and unlike his teammates actually took the game on coming out of defence, rather than going sideways or to the boundary. I love him as a defender.

[SaberFang 7,151]

I'd love to know whether Roosy's ultra defensive comments about any Watts criticism is just for show, or what he genuinely feels. Guess we'll find out in a few weeks...

[Chook 15,012]

18) And lastly, had one of the saddest walks back to the car at the end of the game as my little 6 year old son (who'd attended his first game) had started crying in the 3rd quarter telling me in a broken voice "Why did the umpire give the Eagle the free kick". We made it through to the end without any further tears, but then on the walk back to the car poor little bloke balled his eyes out for a solid 20 minutes as we walked amongst a bunch of happy Eagles fans (to their credit nobody said anything to push it in our face, that's what Dockers fans do, and we even had a couple of old ladies offering a sympathetic remark, such is the feeling of pity that other supporters now have for us Melbourne fans, pretty bloody ordinary finish to the night. I didn't really know what to tell him, just the usual stuff "it's only a game" "we'll be better next year" "the players aren't trying, but next year most of them won't be there" (how I hope this is true). To be honest, I have very little belief that they will actually get better but I had to tell the poor kid something. When I dropped a philosophical concept on him I knew I was really starting to scrape the barrel, told him "listen, just remember how bad this night feels because it'll make it all the more satisfying when we actually start winning again"

19) After all of that, he said " Dad, I still don't feel any better, can you tell me a story to cheer me up on the drive home". Ended up having to make up a story where he gets drafted at pick 5 by the Dees (coached by Nathan Jones) 10 years from now and kicks a winning goal after the final siren in his debut game. He drifted off to sleep after that.

Sad. Very very sad.

[CityDee 738]

Slow and inept disposal going anywhere near offensive 50 m arc .

[Gorgoroth 12,942]

There use to be a soccer player who played For Bolton who we called Bambi on ice, I think this should be Watts new nickname.

[Wormburner 674]

I just cannot understand some of the simple and basic skill errors our boys make....

For example - I remember my coach telling me in under 12's "what's the point of kicking it over the leading players head, at least put it in front of him so he has a chance of getting it"

FMD with disposals like our players dish up its no wonder we can't take a mark in our forward 50.

Edited August 23, 2014 by Wormburner

[Matt Demon 1,418]

Don't worry, the pain will end after next Saturday.

It never ends...

[Forest Demon 4,681]

How did Garland and Watts go?

Terrible and woeful.

Garland was injured though to be fair.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

I'd love to know whether Roosy's ultra defensive comments about any Watts criticism is just for show, or what he genuinely feels. Guess we'll find out in a few weeks...

My personal opinion is that Roos is just avoiding a media storm, and rightly so, and hoping Jack's woeful form can fly under the radar somewhat, and not put off potential suitors.

Unfortunately, I think the whole football world can see how much he is stinking it up this year, except a few delusional and over protective Melbourne supporters.

[old dee 23,787]

The boys put the effort in but the turnovers are just killing us, we really struggled once we got to half forward line we stopped/propped and turned it over. I am not as down as I was last season because as slight as it is we have improved. We can find the ball which is something we struggled to do under Neeld so that is a plus

Very top heavy and once the ball hit the ground in our forward line we were toast, I gave big Fitzy a vote for effort tonight but sorry if we are being ruthless he is not going to make it, will have the occasional decent game but one of them to say no been to long try something else. Jack Watts must be traded whilst we can still get something for him, he just doesn't have the make up to utilise the tools at his disposal. Garland what has happened to the player of a couple of years ago, really struggling with confidence.

So whilst I see improvement still a few tough years ahead

Have not seen the game and I won't PSD but the result was really not a surprise to anyone was it?

Not sure why everyone is so down. Last night I was reflecting on my thoughts at the start of the season.

I thought we would struggle to win more than four games and I knew and said our list was going to take at least three years to fix.

We are seriously short of AFL level players, hard work and a long tough road ahead but since when has it been otherwise for the MFC.

[Redleg 40,894]

We win the footy, but West Coast are consistently able to get outside us and we struggle to get outside them. It means that they move it too easily while we struggle to move it at all.

Frustrating, but it has been a theme.

Agree. As we both said yesterday this side needs pace and skill. We need talented outside runners who can carry the ball and deliver to a team mate as opposed to standing still and kicking to a contest, or out of bounds on the full.

We have proved we can get the ball so they are trying, they just lack pace and skill. Who is our Motlop, Isaac Smith, Lewis Jetta , Steven Hill, Robbie Gray, etc and all these guys have multiple mates. That is why we are where we are.

[Demonland 72,128]

Our correspondent William from West Perth was at the game. Here's his story as told to Whispering Jack

OUTSMARTED by William from West Perth

You could have been forgiven if you thought that the Melbourne bus had arrived at Patersons Stadium well into the time on period of the first quarter because, by the time the Dees started playing, the Eagles already had a score of 4.1.25.

When Melbourne did arrive the team was downright embarrassing. On the long Subiaco ground, they picked their tallest side for the year but they never really gave the big blokes a chance. You would have thought that they might have put in an effort to move the ball quickly in their direction to take full advantage of their height but instead they stumbled and fumbled and persisted in moving the ball sideways until they turned it over or gave away a stupid free kick.

With the West Coast Eagles still in the hunt for a finals place and percentage always likely to play a part in deciding their participation, it was unlikely that they were going to take this game easily. They outsmarted the visitors at every turn and were doing so even before the game started. As already mentioned, Melbourne had selected a top heavy side for this ground and that played into West Coast's hands. The decision to omit giant Nick Naitanui with 179cm running defender Adam Carter left another mismatch in favour of the home side that had its run and spread down pat on the night. As a result, they had no trouble dealing with their tired, slow, disjointed and out-of- form opponents. They pulled up in the end content with a 66 point win and a perfect lead up to the final round.

What can I say about Melbourne? Well, one thing it did well was that it furthered its case for a priority pick. On that performance, the odds on a favourable decision would have improved.

Playing his 150th game, Bernie Vince stood out like a beacon. He kicked the team's first goal late in the opening quarter with a great snap and never stopped working on his way to picking up 34 possessions. Daniel Cross did the job on Matt Priddis and the club's two most reliable players for the season, skipper Nathan Jones and another 2014 newcomer in Dom Tyson worked their butts off as did Rohan Bail. There were unfortunately however, too many who weren't up to it on the night.

They played without skill, thought or heart and once again, the match statistics said it all. They had more disposals, won the contested possessions, hit outs, stoppages and were close in the clearances but once again lost by more than 10 goals. What they lacked was the ingredient that makes the game exciting and is the icing on the cake that generates scores these days - plenty of running and spreading and smart play. These things add excitement to a game and enthusiasm to a team which is something the Eagles had plenty of and the Demons had none on the night.

Melbourne1.1.7 3.3.21 5.4.34 8.5.53

West Coast 6.1.37 9.5.59 16.9.105 18.11.119

Goals

Melbourne Fitzpatrick 2 Bail Dawes Howe Pedersen Tyson Vince

West Coast Kennedy LeCras 4 Darling 3 Hill 2 Cripps Gaff Lycett McGinnity Shuey

Best

Melbourne Vince N Jones Cross Tyson Howe Bail

West Coast LeCras Masten Gaff Shuey Hurn Mackenzie

Injuries

Melbourne Garland (knee)

West Coast Hutchings (thigh)

Changes

Melbourne Nil

West Coast Nick Naitanui replaced by Adam Carter in the selected side.

Reports

Melbourne Nil

West Coast Nil

Umpires Craig Fleer, Luke Farmer, Matthew Leppard

Official Attendance 35,083 at Patersons Stadium

[chook fowler 19,458]

There use to be a soccer player who played For Bolton who we called Bambi on ice, I think this should be Watts new nickname.

Ice normally causes hyperactivity and aggression. Watts would be more likely on downers than uppers.