GOODBYE MR. CHIP FRAWLEY

[JV7 2,351]

I have read that he needs to sign a 4 year deal at a minimum of $600k for us to get band one compo

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

From a players perspective it is exactly the point. The point you seem to be missing.

Many here continually want to view the perspective only from the supporters view and continually refuse to put themselves in the players shoes. We see the treatment of Junior by our club and others that have been traded out or delisted without too much conscience. I read these boards and see some of the vitriol towards players and in the same breath, we the supporters demand loyalty from players.

I don't like this new world of football where loyalty has little value any more than Old Dee does but I won't bury my head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. ( note - you don't do that OD)

(and you have elaborated on such issues - it is just some don't agree with you)

Frawley is a 26 year old experienced player who is in our leadership group.

Wait, I'll repeat that.

He's in an AFL club's leadership group. The group of players who are standard setters and are held accountable for their ability to guide, nurture and set the tone for the rest of the playing group as well as represent the club strongly on and off the field.

For a player to 'explore their options within FA' is of course, completely understandable.

For a senior player who is part of the leadership group of an AFL football club to 'explore their options within FA' is also understandable, however a more delicate and sensitive process to undertake as the care of duty that particular player needs to show is amplified by the fact that they are a senior leader of a football club. I repeat, a senior leader of a football club.

Here are some statements made by Frawley's manager, Frawley himself and Josh Mahoney beginning from January, which is when James and his manager decided not to engage in contract discussions with the MFC.

Jan 31st - Frawley's manager, Alex McDonald -

''James is keen to let the season take shape before we start focusing on contract discussions,'' McDonald said. ''The club has been in constant contact and updating James on where the club is at and their direction.''

''We presented to James prior to Christmas and we are in talks with his management and are ready to talk to him, but James has indicated he wants to focus on training and playing at the moment and get a better idea of the direction of the club.'' Josh Mahoney

'Mahoney said Frawley had only indicated he wanted to wait before discussing contracts and had not said he wanted to wait until the end of the season. Players who put contract talks on hold until season's end early in the year often intend to leave for another club.'

Feb 17th - Frawley on Roos' contract situation.

''Hopefully Roosy can sign for a few more years, that would be nice. Put it out there - Roos can sign for a few more years - he does, I will, done,'' Frawley said, seemingly only half in jest.

''Right now I am very happy at Melbourne … the club is in a good spot,'' he said. ''I am just going to concentrate on footy. I have plenty of time to make a decision and I think if we keep going the way we are … the contract will sort itself out.''

June 5th - Frawley on finals aspirations and loyalty

"I want to make sure the club is heading in the right direction."

"It (the lure of playing in a flag) plays a part, you always want to win and play finals," Frawley said.

"I've been here [at Melbourne] eight years and haven't played any finals and haven't got close really. It'd be great to play finals.

“At this club we've seen massive improvement over the last few years and if we keep going in the right trend, we'll hopefully be playing finals really soon." (What on earth is that last comment?)

"I think being a country boy, loyalty is a massive thing," he said.

So, as we can see Nutbean. There are clearly mixed messages. Whether it's his manager's fault or his own, it still reflects poorly on him as a senior leader of our side. He has also clearly set himself up by saying stupid and thoughtless things such as, "I think being a country boy, loyalty is a massive thing' as well as 'If Roosy can sign for a few more years, I will.'

From the first time he put contract talks on hold, he never stated that he'd decide at the end of the year. He said he wanted to see how the club went and what direction it was going in.

Well guess what. It's clear we're on the up. Roos has now signed for a third year. The loyalty comment and the finals football comment were almost automated pieces of dribble without a single thought of what the consequences might be if he in fact decides to go. And on top of all of this, myself and plenty of other supporters have been very disappointed with some of the efforts from Frawley during games this year. Some of his on-field actions as a senior leader have been Sylvia-esque-like.

Myself and any other MFC supporter have every right to be disappointed in the manner in which a senior leader of our club has gone about 'exploring his options'.

I am extremely hopeful he goes as the only way we're going to keep improving is if everyone is onboard and gives their all for this club both on the field and off it.

And Frawley, as a senior leader who is expected to help drive this club forward has been questionable in both aspects this year.

Edited July 28, 2014 by stevethemanjordan

[Dockett 32 1,239]

If its $600k over 4 years to get first round compo lets go. Nice natural hedge.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

If its $600k over 4 years to get first round compo lets go. Nice natural hedge.

Even if it's lower than that other things are taken into account, i'd suggest we will get band 1 almost regardless

[Undeeterred 3,124]

We would be extremely, extremely stiff not to get Band 1 for Frawley. Wasn't Sylvia Band 2? Puh-leese.

[daisycutter 29,616]

We would be extremely, extremely stiff not to get Band 1 for Frawley. Wasn't Sylvia Band 2? Puh-leese.

actually sylvia was band 3 (after-second-round pick)

band 2 is end-of-first-round pick

[dees189227 12,394]

It will be interesting now with Frawley. He doesnt have that fall back excuse now where he said about the coaching situation. yes we dont have a successor but roosy is around for 2 more seasons now. At the family day he said if roosy committed he would.

Now more talk will be about him. He is the only person who hasnt committed.

[Undeeterred 3,124]

Does that make Franklin Band 2? That changes things somewhat... Funny, I thought Sylvia was Band 2! My bad.

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Does that make Franklin Band 2? That changes things somewhat... Funny, I thought Sylvia was Band 2! My bad.

No, Franklin was band one (pick after club's first rounder) but Hawthorn's first pick was obviously at the end of the first round anyway.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,792]

It will be interesting now with Frawley. He doesnt have that fall back excuse now where he said about the coaching situation. yes we dont have a successor but roosy is around for 2 more seasons now. At the family day he said if roosy committed he would.

Now more talk will be about him. He is the only person who hasnt committed.

Peter Jackson was on 3AW last night. While he said he wouldn't talk about Frawley's position...he then did by referring to Frawley's comment that if Roos signed on for longer so would he. Jackson then said that he expected the club would go back to Frawley's management within the next few weeks.

[rpfc 28,469]

Does that make Franklin Band 2? That changes things somewhat... Funny, I thought Sylvia was Band 2! My bad.

The bands for FA compensation are a form of equalisation; when a lower team on the ladder loses a player three of the bands will give them a better pick.

Band 1: The pick after that teams 1st Rd pick.

Band 2: The pick after the 1st round.

Band 3: The pick after that teams 2nd Rd pick.

Band 4: The pick after the 2nd round.

Band 5: The pick after that teams 3rd Rd pick

This is why Franklin was Pick 19 with Band 1 and Sylvia Pick 24 with Band 3.

[Guest]

Personally, I think the club would be reasonably happy if he decides to go. In fact I don't think the club's offer (at years end) will be overwhelming. Last year I don't think anybody would have picked him to play most of his football up forward. Our backline is fairly settled without him. We have Hogan waiting to take a place up forward so we wouldn't miss his presence there either.

We will pick up either pick 2,3,4 or 5 for him and free up dollars in our salary cap. Any of those picks is way over what he is really worth. No club would trade a pick like that for him. The pick is a gift from the AFL. Its way overs and it gives us another opportunity to do a deal and get another Tyson like player and probably 5-6 years younger than Frawley as well.

[binman 43,002]

Personally, I think the club would be reasonably happy if he decides to go. In fact I don't think the club's offer (at years end) will be overwhelming. Last year I don't think anybody would have picked him to play most of his football up forward. Our backline is fairly settled without him. We have Hogan waiting to take a place up forward so we wouldn't miss his presence there either.

We will pick up either pick 2,3,4 or 5 for him and free up dollars in our salary cap. Any of those picks is way over what he is really worth. No club would trade a pick like that for him. The pick is a gift from the AFL. Its way overs and it gives us another opportunity to do a deal and get another Tyson like player and probably 5-6 years younger than Frawley as well.

Yep, that's how i see it. I'd go as far saying as they won't push too hard for him and their offer will be good but not near what he can get on the open market, even though we have the coin and the salary cap space. We will be able to use that extra pick, salary cap space and coin to push hard for the quality half back we so desperately need.

[Theo 272]

If "Grand New Flag" is right we will negate any Frawley compensation by luring players from other clubs.

This is what he said under the Frawley topic.

I am hearing:

* Paul Roos will sign for a 3rd year............ its as good as locked in.

* There has been informal discussions with Bomber, as senior assistant next year. There is a good chance Bomber will end up at Dees but unsure of what his position will be in a succession plan.

* Paul Roos has been working very hard at encouraging target players he wished to bring to the club. This is all unofficial and via managers as season still on. I am told these talks are going VERY well.

* Confidence of Frawley staying is low. Club has been preparing for his departure. However, still not 100% that he is leaving.

[Little Richard 6,262]

If "Grand New Flag" is right we will negate any Frawley compensation by luring players from other clubs.

This is what he said under the Frawley topic.

I am hearing:

* Paul Roos will sign for a 3rd year............ its as good as locked in.

* There has been informal discussions with Bomber, as senior assistant next year. There is a good chance Bomber will end up at Dees but unsure of what his position will be in a succession plan.

* Paul Roos has been working very hard at encouraging target players he wished to bring to the club. This is all unofficial and via managers as season still on. I am told these talks are going VERY well.

* Confidence of Frawley staying is low. Club has been preparing for his departure. However, still not 100% that he is leaving.

The bolded line brings to mind Jeremy Cameron.

A conspiracy enthusiast might suggest there is something untoward with this 'ankle injury' that's seen him out for the rest of the season.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I wonder how many would change their tune regarding Frawley if we were to discover the compensation was band 2 and not band 1.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

I wonder how many would change their tune regarding Frawley if we were to discover the compensation was band 2 and not band 1.

I think it's very unlikely it will be band 2 personally, Geelong may offer him 500k or less sure, but Freo, Hawthorn and the Suns will offer 600k imo, and other clubs as well, the bidding war situation is going to work for us imo, I wouldn't be surprised to see us throw a good offer out there just to keep the heat on

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

I wonder how many would change their tune regarding Frawley if we were to discover the compensation was band 2 and not band 1.

I actually don't see any problem with this.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I think it's very unlikely it will be band 2 personally, Geelong may offer him 500k or less sure, but Freo, Hawthorn and the Suns will offer 600k imo, and other clubs as well, the bidding war situation is going to work for us imo, I wouldn't be surprised to see us throw a good offer out there just to keep the heat on

I struggle to be as confident when the formula seems so arbitrary.

[Beats 190]

Personally, I think the club would be reasonably happy if he decides to go. In fact I don't think the club's offer (at years end) will be overwhelming. Last year I don't think anybody would have picked him to play most of his football up forward. Our backline is fairly settled without him. We have Hogan waiting to take a place up forward so we wouldn't miss his presence there either.

We will pick up either pick 2,3,4 or 5 for him and free up dollars in our salary cap. Any of those picks is way over what he is really worth. No club would trade a pick like that for him. The pick is a gift from the AFL. Its way overs and it gives us another opportunity to do a deal and get another Tyson like player and probably 5-6 years younger than Frawley as well.

That's debatable. There are very few comparable players that get traded (mid 20's, proven AFL quality). Josh Gibson is probably the most comparable player in the last 5 years.

Gibson (& pick 61) was traded for picks 25 & 41. At the time he was traded he was the same age as Frawley is currently, had played half the amount of games and had achieved nowhere near what Frawley has at the same age. It's logical to assume that Frawley will show the same level of improvement as Gibson has. A trade for a top 5 pick wouldn't be out of range and it would definitely be a top 10 pick imo.

[Ted Lasso 19,518]

I struggle to be as confident when the formula seems so arbitrary.

I have a feeling that rather than award a priority pick they will just make certain the compo is band 1,

[rpfc 28,469]

I struggle to be as confident when the formula seems so arbitrary.

The compensation is also to be ratified by a select panel that can change it so it is the behest of AFL House what we get really.

I see the Frawley compo as a neat way the AFL is going to give us the PP we need without actually giving us a PP.

I think Frawley will be Band 1 if he goes.

[P-man 13,366]

Frawley is a 26 year old experienced player who is in our leadership group.

Wait, I'll repeat that.

He's in an AFL club's leadership group. The group of players who are standard setters and are held accountable for their ability to guide, nurture and set the tone for the rest of the playing group as well as represent the club strongly on and off the field.

For a player to 'explore their options within FA' is of course, completely understandable.

For a senior player who is part of the leadership group of an AFL football club to 'explore their options within FA' is also understandable, however a more delicate and sensitive process to undertake as the care of duty that particular player needs to show is amplified by the fact that they are a senior leader of a football club. I repeat, a senior leader of a football club.

Here are some statements made by Frawley's manager, Frawley himself and Josh Mahoney beginning from January, which is when James and his manager decided not to engage in contract discussions with the MFC.

Jan 31st - Frawley's manager, Alex McDonald -

''James is keen to let the season take shape before we start focusing on contract discussions,'' McDonald said. ''The club has been in constant contact and updating James on where the club is at and their direction.''

''We presented to James prior to Christmas and we are in talks with his management and are ready to talk to him, but James has indicated he wants to focus on training and playing at the moment and get a better idea of the direction of the club.'' Josh Mahoney

'Mahoney said Frawley had only indicated he wanted to wait before discussing contracts and had not said he wanted to wait until the end of the season. Players who put contract talks on hold until season's end early in the year often intend to leave for another club.'

Feb 17th - Frawley on Roos' contract situation.

''Hopefully Roosy can sign for a few more years, that would be nice. Put it out there - Roos can sign for a few more years - he does, I will, done,'' Frawley said, seemingly only half in jest.

''Right now I am very happy at Melbourne … the club is in a good spot,'' he said. ''I am just going to concentrate on footy. I have plenty of time to make a decision and I think if we keep going the way we are … the contract will sort itself out.''

June 5th - Frawley on finals aspirations and loyalty

"I want to make sure the club is heading in the right direction."

"It (the lure of playing in a flag) plays a part, you always want to win and play finals," Frawley said.

"I've been here [at Melbourne] eight years and haven't played any finals and haven't got close really. It'd be great to play finals.

“At this club we've seen massive improvement over the last few years and if we keep going in the right trend, we'll hopefully be playing finals really soon." (What on earth is that last comment?)

"I think being a country boy, loyalty is a massive thing," he said.

So, as we can see Nutbean. There are clearly mixed messages. Whether it's his manager's fault or his own, it still reflects poorly on him as a senior leader of our side. He has also clearly set himself up by saying stupid and thoughtless things such as, "I think being a country boy, loyalty is a massive thing' as well as 'If Roosy can sign for a few more years, I will.'

From the first time he put contract talks on hold, he never stated that he'd decide at the end of the year. He said he wanted to see how the club went and what direction it was going in.

Well guess what. It's clear we're on the up. Roos has now signed for a third year. The loyalty comment and the finals football comment were almost automated pieces of dribble without a single thought of what the consequences might be if he in fact decides to go. And on top of all of this, myself and plenty of other supporters have been very disappointed with some of the efforts from Frawley during games this year. Some of his on-field actions as a senior leader have been Sylvia-esque-like.

Myself and any other MFC supporter have every right to be disappointed in the manner in which a senior leader of our club has gone about 'exploring his options'.

I am extremely hopeful he goes as the only way we're going to keep improving is if everyone is onboard and gives their all for this club both on the field and off it.

And Frawley, as a senior leader who is expected to help drive this club forward has been questionable in both aspects this year.

Playing devils advocate, I think the comments are, on the whole, defensible.

The comment about Roos signing on for "a few more years" is all about the actual words he used. Roos hasn't signed on for a few more years. He's taken up the additional year, which was more or less expected. Frawley's comment I interpreted as Roos signing on to something longer term, which no coach would do, so it was a safe comment to make. And also one that was largely made in jest.

The comment about loyalty being a big thing for a country boy doesn't obligate him. It merely points to his conflicting feelings about making the move. Like any player, he wants to play finals. He is fully entitled to that want after 8 years of service. Countering that is his want to be loyal to the club and his teammates. I interpreted the comment as giving insight to his thought process.

If he does go, I don't think his comments will reflect as badly on him as the media and many others are suggesting.

[Deecisive 1,709]

Frawley and his manager will continue to field offers and have discussions with any interested clubs until they have squeezed the maximum $$'s and duration out of the winner. This will obviously chew up a lot of someone's salary cap probably for the next 5 years. Melbourne will probably ask him what it will take to keep him or what is your best offer then say sorry we cannot match it, so as not to insult the lad with what we actually think he is worth per year. He has in my mind been a better forward this year than backmam for the team. I wish him luck and the best of luck in chewing major chunks off someone else's salary cap.

[Machsy 2,858]

If "Grand New Flag" is right we will negate any Frawley compensation by luring players from other clubs.

This is what he said under the Frawley topic.

I am hearing:

* Paul Roos will sign for a 3rd year............ its as good as locked in.

* There has been informal discussions with Bomber, as senior assistant next year. There is a good chance Bomber will end up at Dees but unsure of what his position will be in a succession plan.

* Paul Roos has been working very hard at encouraging target players he wished to bring to the club. This is all unofficial and via managers as season still on. I am told these talks are going VERY well.

* Confidence of Frawley staying is low. Club has been preparing for his departure. However, still not 100% that he is leaving.

Not necessarily.

Only if we lure them as FAs, which is doubtful as there are few quality FAs left.

We may use the compensation to acquire these players, however.