Garry Lyon on FC

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

Garry has just gotten stuck into NicNat on Footy Classified. Brought up his stats for this year to back up his point that NicNat is vastly overrated based on his potential to one day be a game-breaker. Points out that he is averaging only 2 marks and a dozen disposals a game and that the people sining his praises all talk about his amazing impact on the game that no stats are able to show. Basically what a lot of us have been saying for years.

[IvanBartul13 2,564]

Brodie Grundy is another - gets talked about like hes the second coming of Simon Madden but is the second worst number 1 ruckman statistically (Champion Data) and the worst per ground time in the compatition and cant take a mark to save his life. Been thrashed by three opponents so far with one draw and was subbed out last game and outplayed by his number 2, Witts.

[The Song Formerly Known As 6,479]

Garry has just gotten stuck into NicNat on Footy Classified. Brought up his stats for this year to back up his point that NicNat is vastly overrated based on his potential to one day be a game-breaker. Points out that he is averaging only 2 marks and a dozen disposals a game and that the people sining his praises all talk about his amazing impact on the game that no stats are able to show. Basically what a lot of us have been saying for years.

now compare them to watt's, i bet he (watts) trounces him in almost every area.

Edited April 14, 2014 by The Song Formerly Known As

[RalphiusMaximus 6,053]

now compare them to watt's, i bet he (watts) trounces him in almost every area.

Career.

This Season.

Watts is even ahead on tackles this season.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I have been saying it since day one

Against us the other day Bruce Tossavaney was saying how important he had been and he'd had about 3 touches in a side that was up 50 to nothing

Watts is by far the better player and has copped 100 times the criticism.. even when he does something good there is a comment about how 'maligned' he is , when he performs better than most top 10 draft picks that are running around today... It's absolutely infuriating

[FC Melbourne 108]

I have been saying it since day one

even when he does something good there is a comment about how 'maligned' he is , when he performs better than most top 10 draft picks that are running around today... It's absolutely infuriating

Good call, Romping Wins and Basil what's his name driving me mental with this drivel all Saturday. Got so bad was wishing BT and Darc were calling.....

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

I have been saying it since day one

Against us the other day Bruce Tossavaney was saying how important he had been and he'd had about 3 touches in a side that was up 50 to nothing

Watts is by far the better player and has copped 100 times the criticism.. even when he does something good there is a comment about how 'maligned' he is , when he performs better than most top 10 draft picks that are running around today... It's absolutely infuriating

I can't stand this! Every time he takes a mark or lines up for goal the commentators say "how fitting would this be...the much maligned number 1 pick can extend/reduce the margin by putting this one through." FFS! There is no other player in the competition that has their draft number mentioned every time they play, let alone every time they touch the ball. Ridiculous!

[P-man 13,366]

I can't stand this! Every time he takes a mark or lines up for goal the commentators say "how fitting would this be...the much maligned number 1 pick can extend/reduce the margin by putting this one through." FFS! There is no other player in the competition that has their draft number mentioned every time they play, let alone every time they touch the ball. Ridiculous!

To the general football public, Watts is the poster boy for the past 5 years. So the "much maligned no. 1 draft pick" tag has stuck, as much by association of Melbourne being horrible as by his own deeds.

When the team is no longer horrible, I suspect Watts will just be no. 4 for Melbourne.

I agree it is annoying, but I understand where it originates from.

[Good Times Grimes 2,396]

To the general football public, Watts is the poster boy for the past 5 years. So the "much maligned no. 1 draft pick" tag has stuck, as much by association of Melbourne being horrible as by his own deeds.

When the team is no longer horrible, I suspect Watts will just be no. 4 for Melbourne.

I agree it is annoying, but I understand where it originates from.

Yeah, I understand where it comes from, but it drives me nuts! I can't wait until he can start playing consistently and the media are forced to eat their words.

[darkhorse72 1,917]

Callers were getting into NicNat on 6PR sports tonight. The personalities were even saying he was the most sought after player int he draft that year. Until someone called in and mentioned he was taken as 2, not 1. Also the general consensus of Nicnat in the footy public does not match the love the media give him. average footballer who can on rare occasions do something fancy for a 3 second tv highlight not he news.

[Carrot Top 947]

If his name was Joe Smith, and he had short back and sides the media would be wondering why he went so high.

In his first year I wondered what the fuss was about. Sure he was a wonderful athlete but he didn't read the play. If you kicked it near him he'd do something nice, but mostly he ran around in no mans land waiting for the ball to find him. I watched him carefully last week (because lucky me had to work when we played WCE and this was the first I'd seen of him this season) and nothing had changed. He was always arriving at the contest after it was decided, and unless the ball landed within 10 feet of him he was a spectator.

This isn't a one eyed Watts is better post: I'm still undecided on Watts, although I think he's getting better each game. This is more a 'why the hell do people think NicNat is anything but a highlight reel?' post.

Next week: Why are Gibbs and Kruz not crucified by the media - they deserve it as much, if not more than Watts. Soft and ordinary, the both of them.

[Glenn Molloy 494]

If his name was Joe Smith, and he had short back and sides the media would be wondering why he went so high.

In his first year I wondered what the fuss was about. Sure he was a wonderful athlete but he didn't read the play. If you kicked it near him he'd do something nice, but mostly he ran around in no mans land waiting for the ball to find him. I watched him carefully last week (because lucky me had to work when we played WCE and this was the first I'd seen of him this season) and nothing had changed. He was always arriving at the contest after it was decided, and unless the ball landed within 10 feet of him he was a spectator.

This isn't a one eyed Watts is better post: I'm still undecided on Watts, although I think he's getting better each game. This is more a 'why the hell do people think NicNat is anything but a highlight reel?' post.

Next week: Why are Gibbs and Kruz not crucified by the media - they deserve it as much, if not more than Watts. Soft and ordinary, the both of them.

Gibbs is pretty soft but Kreuzer isn't....just had a terrible run with injury. As for the whole Watts/Nic Nat debate....stats don't tell the whole story. Of course Watts will have more possessions than Nic Nat, he's played as a utility and in the Neeld era was often a loose man in defence. Just like stats didn't tell the whole story on Saturday when Carlton won most of them but we won the game. I think Nic Nat is a bit overrated but he's not just a highlight reel; I don't think he's fit at the moment given his limited pre-season, though I know once you go out there you can't use it as an excuse.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

If his name was Joe Smith, and he had short back and sides the media would be wondering why he went so high.

In his first year I wondered what the fuss was about. Sure he was a wonderful athlete but he didn't read the play. If you kicked it near him he'd do something nice, but mostly he ran around in no mans land waiting for the ball to find him. I watched him carefully last week (because lucky me had to work when we played WCE and this was the first I'd seen of him this season) and nothing had changed. He was always arriving at the contest after it was decided, and unless the ball landed within 10 feet of him he was a spectator.

This isn't a one eyed Watts is better post: I'm still undecided on Watts, although I think he's getting better each game. This is more a 'why the hell do people think NicNat is anything but a highlight reel?' post.

Next week: Why are Gibbs and Kruz not crucified by the media - they deserve it as much, if not more than Watts. Soft and ordinary, the both of them.

Kreuzer flies under the radar, in more ways than one.

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_compare?tid1=4&pid1=2301&tid2=12&pid2=3107&type=A&fid1=C&fid2=C

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

Callers were getting into NicNat on 6PR sports tonight. The personalities were even saying he was the most sought after player int he draft that year. Until someone called in and mentioned he was taken as 2, not 1. Also the general consensus of Nicnat in the footy public does not match the love the media give him. average footballer who can on rare occasions do something fancy for a 3 second tv highlight not he news.

Nicnat only seems to put in cameos. Does not seem to read the play that well or get enough of the ball. I would put him in a similar category to Jeremy Howe. Does a few spectacular things that attract attention. Having a striking physical appearance amplifies his actions too.

[DeeZee 7,396]

The media get seduced by his appearance and the handful of athletic things he does in a game.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Brodie Grundy is another - gets talked about like hes the second coming of Simon Madden but is the second worst number 1 ruckman statistically (Champion Data) and the worst per ground time in the compatition and cant take a mark to save his life. Been thrashed by three opponents so far with one draw and was subbed out last game and outplayed by his number 2, Witts.

Granted that Brodie Grundy has not had a good first 4 games, but isn't this his second year? Has only played a handful of games. Bit tough to be made first ruck for the most followed team in your city after only 7 first year games. Should be still learning in the 2's. Just turned 20. Loads of up side. Doesn't compare yet to the disappointment of Nic Nat. I'd love him playing alongside Spencil.

[old dee 23,791]

Here is another one close to our hearts.

How come a $1million pa player who struggles to hold his place gets no mention.

Imagine if he was still at the Dees!

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,755]

The media get seduced by his appearance and the handful of athletic things he does in a game.

Not just the media. Also the All-Australian team selectors. How he got chosen last year is beyond my comprehension.

[Gipsy Danger 1,067]

Granted that Brodie Grundy has not had a good first 4 games, but isn't this his second year? Has only played a handful of games. Bit tough to be made first ruck for the most followed team in your city after only 7 first year games. Should be still learning in the 2's. Just turned 20. Loads of up side. Doesn't compare yet to the disappointment of Nic Nat. I'd love him playing alongside Spencil.

I agree, cant be too hard on a kid who has played about 11 games. Especially when his direct opponents are the biggest blokes in the comp. He has got a lot of upside, I just hope his development isn't restricted by being the number one ruck so early in his career.

[Tyson_Viney_Toumpas 269]

I'm in no way a nic nat fan and have said from day one he doesn't do enough, just a flash in the pan player.

It's hard to compare the two as they play completely different roles, one stat to me mindful of however is Watts has had 87% time on ground to nic nats 49%.

[The Chazz 4,077]

This topic has all the trademarks of a Range Rover poll.

Over to you Rangey, wherever you may roam.

[TGR 1,367]

Brodie Grundy is another - gets talked about like hes the second coming of Simon Madden but is the second worst number 1 ruckman statistically (Champion Data) and the worst per ground time in the compatition and cant take a mark to save his life. Been thrashed by three opponents so far with one draw and was subbed out last game and outplayed by his number 2, Witts.

You are talking about a kid who has played less than 10 games, who has been thrown to the wolves in the hardest position physically on the ground. Very game when our ruck stocks are pretty average at best.

Buckley's decision to get rid of Jolly and have faith in Grundy is short-term teething, long-term gain. Melbourne had a chance to follow a similar brave path, but invariably went for "the best team on paper for now".

You will eat your words about Grundy.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

And pre-season they're talking about NicNat being worth a million a year. Haha I hope they do sign him to a ridiculous contract like that.

[Machsy 2,858]

You are talking about a kid who has played less than 10 games, who has been thrown to the wolves in the hardest position physically on the ground. Very game when our ruck stocks are pretty average at best.

Buckley's decision to get rid of Jolly and have faith in Grundy is short-term teething, long-term gain. Melbourne had a chance to follow a similar brave path, but invariably went for "the best team on paper for now".

You will eat your words about Grundy.

Not sure about that. Goodoil is only saying where he stands now and backing it up with statistics.

It's not like he said that Grundy is a spud and will never get any better.

The fact is, his ability has been overhyped at this stage, and it looks like even Buckley bought into it a bit too early.

I think there's a misconception that players can't develop and improve by playing in a lower league.

I no longer think that is true.

[Ouch! 2,263]

You are talking about a kid who has played less than 10 games, who has been thrown to the wolves in the hardest position physically on the ground. Very game when our ruck stocks are pretty average at best.

Buckley's decision to get rid of Jolly and have faith in Grundy is short-term teething, long-term gain. Melbourne had a chance to follow a similar brave path, but invariably went for "the best team on paper for now".

You will eat your words about Grundy.

I don't agree with you here.

I agree that Grundy is a talent, but I don't think playing him so soon is a short-term pain, long term gain. I think it's going to damage Grundy as they are exposing him too soon, and he is getting smashed by experienced players... He had a solid end of season last year and was better than Jolly. But he is a 19 year old player.

TBH with peoples comments about No 1 Draft picks... I'd actually argue that Nick Reiwoldt is the only out and out star that has been elite or showing elite potential for most of his career. I am not saying Delidio, Cooney, Hodge and Goddard are not gun players now... but Delidio and Goddard were slammed earlier in their careers for being soft. Hodge took a bit longer but had injuries, Cooney perhaps showed what he was capable of earlier, and has the brownlow medal, but injury has hurt his career.

Murphy Gibbs and Kruezer all have some deficiencies about their games, as do Scully and Watts for that matter.

Swallow, Patton, Whitfield and Boyd.... too early to tell