Training - Wednesday 15th January, 2014

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

'Yze magic' during the Judd trade was some of the best demonland reading I can remember..

Quality stuff.

was he responsible for the infamous 'Grandma' line?

[rjay 23,987]

Our midfield will improve out of sight this year there is no doubt about that.

Two things Watts needs to do in order to even be considered for a midfield role

1) Gut run. You cannot be taught that and it is time for Jack to look deep inside himself and actually push himself harder. He is not a kid anymore and has enough years in the AFL system now to want to make a difference

2) Learn how to tackle and make it stick. Far too often over the past few years he has barely attempted to tackle, basically just flinging his arms towards an opponent and is easily brushed off. Once again that comes down to wanting to impact a contest.

The mark he took against the bulldogs when we beat them at the end of the match was hopefully a sign that he is taking football more seriously.

Sounds like most of our list, in fact I struggle to think of any of them that gut run and consistently stick tackles.

[Slartibartfast 15,937]

Our midfield will improve out of sight this year there is no doubt about that.

Two things Watts needs to do in order to even be considered for a midfield role

1) Gut run. You cannot be taught that and it is time for Jack to look deep inside himself and actually push himself harder. He is not a kid anymore and has enough years in the AFL system now to want to make a difference

2) Learn how to tackle and make it stick. Far too often over the past few years he has barely attempted to tackle, basically just flinging his arms towards an opponent and is easily brushed off. Once again that comes down to wanting to impact a contest.

The mark he took against the bulldogs when we beat them at the end of the match was hopefully a sign that he is taking football more seriously.

I'm an unabashed Watts fan.

What many are forgetting is that the coaching staff we now have will utilize players strengths That in itself will improve our team greatly and everyone's chance to perform. The other is that the players will have a coaching staff that believe in them and encourage them. Watts in particular will benefit from this belief.

Why am I a fan? Because Jack stayed at the MFC when he could so easily have chosen the softer option of going to another club and left behind the mismanagement of his career that started with him being a marketing tool (presentation of jumper, leaking of pick one prior to draft, playing first game against Collingwood and the brazen promotion of that debut etc etc) rather than a footballer. He could have opted for more certain success rather than the 5 years of inept performance that has been our club since he was allocated/selected by it.

But he stayed with his mates and he stayed with the club. He showed character. I wish him all the best and I think Roos will find a role that he can play very well. Midfield? We'll see.

Good luck Jack, you deserve it.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I'm an unabashed Watts fan.

What many are forgetting is that the coaching staff we now have will utilize players strengths That in itself will improve our team greatly and everyone's chance to perform. The other is that the players will have a coaching staff that believe in them and encourage them. Watts in particular will benefit from this belief.

Why am I a fan? Because Jack stayed at the MFC when he could so easily have chosen the softer option of going to another club and left behind the mismanagement of his career that started with him being a marketing tool (presentation of jumper, leaking of pick one prior to draft, playing first game against Collingwood and the brazen promotion of that debut etc etc) rather than a footballer. He could have opted for more certain success rather than the 5 years of inept performance that has been our club since he was allocated/selected by it.

But he stayed with his mates and he stayed with the club. He showed character. I wish him all the best and I think Roos will find a role that he can play very well. Midfield? We'll see.

Good luck Jack, you deserve it.

love this

he hasnt gotten nearly enough credit for showing a bit of loyalty in age where it is nearly extinct

bear in mind though we dont know whether or not he would have gotten more $$$ elsewhere in which case he probably would have done what they all do and clear out his locker

[bing181 8,208]

And here I was thinking that you were giving a training report on a thread about a training session. Silly me.

Exactly.

[rpfc 27,611]

Wait, were we not burning him for his lack of loyalty with his non-committal answers during the season?

[mjt 640]

Wait, were we not burning him for his lack of loyalty with his non-committal answers during the season?

No such thing as loyalty until pens put to contract, even someone with your IQ knows that. Edited January 16, 2014 by mjt

[KingDingAling 3,614]

Nothing I seen in Watts as a junior suggests he will be a dominate midfielder.

Watts has played his best football as a forward - both in juniors and AFL.

The thing is, he hasn't had the body and strength to dominate as a forward.

He is only 22 years of age, he is still filling out.

Fans get too impatient sometimes, especially with quality draft picks.

Edited January 16, 2014 by KingDingAling

[DeeSpencer 23,358]

No such thing as loyalty until pens put to contract, even someone with your IQ knows that.

Whoa come of the personal attack. After many (myself included) burnt Watts for his lack of conviction on the footy show isn't it then a bit of a double standard to then praise him for his loyalty?

[DeeSpencer 23,358]

Nothing I seen in Watts as a junior suggests he will be a dominate midfielder.

Watts has played his best football as a forward - both in juniors and AFL.

The thing is, he hasn't had the body and strength to dominate as a forward.

He is only 22 years of age, he is still filling out.

Fans get too impatient sometimes, especially with quality draft picks.

Well all signs this preseason is that he's looking leaner and more suited for repeat running rather than a filled out key forward body. His better games have been as a forward but they haven't been played as a power forward, they've been played as a skilled player getting plenty of the ball and using it well either to set up goals or to convert goals. He's rarely if ever taken strong contested marks so the forward dream is over. The midfield dream is alive. Of course I want to see him do all the defensive and tough stuff well but if he starts off doing a lot of really good things (getting 20+ disposals, hitting targets, getting out in space to be an option) then we can always build the hard stuff over time. That's one of Watts' problems. Even with all the bad we haven't seen enough of the good. Roos seems very keen on improving players weaknesses and playing a hard tough team game but he's also trying to make sure players can use their strengths.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,302]

Nothing I seen in Watts as a junior suggests he will be a dominate midfielder.

Watts has played his best football as a forward - both in juniors and AFL.

The thing is, he hasn't had the body and strength to dominate as a forward.

He is only 22 years of age, he is still filling out.

Fans get too impatient sometimes, especially with quality draft picks.

Interview with Watts over the preseason he stated that he played most of his junior footy in the midfield.

[monoccular 16,321]

last year our midfield was the worst of probably any side in the last 20 years, still is very average but Roos defensive gameplan might help

Be good if we had some speed who werent youngsters or players who have apparently been going to do well for the last few years

I suspect that Mr Roos' game plan may be a bit different from the one he used when in Sydney - the game has changed and although defence remains pivotal, run and attack is also a necessity. He also has quite different troops, for better or for worse, who play the majority of their games on a far bigger ground than the SCG.

He is a smart man and won't do what ND kept on doing by trying to emulate what the previous year's premiers did. He does think ahead of the pack.

Our midfield will improve out of sight this year there is no doubt about that.

Two things Watts needs to do in order to even be considered for a midfield role

1) Gut run. You cannot be taught that and it is time for Jack to look deep inside himself and actually push himself harder. He is not a kid anymore and has enough years in the AFL system now to want to make a difference

2) Learn how to tackle and make it stick. Far too often over the past few years he has barely attempted to tackle, basically just flinging his arms towards an opponent and is easily brushed off. Once again that comes down to wanting to impact a contest.

The mark he took against the bulldogs when we beat them at the end of the match was hopefully a sign that he is taking football more seriously.

I am sure we will all hope that the new coach, one who knows what he is doing and is strict yet patient, will get far more out of this very talented but as yet seriously under performed young man. (It could perhaps have been interesting if he could also get the most out of [former]#12; we will never know. Perhaps PR decided that he couldn't, and cut his losses.)

Edited January 16, 2014 by monoccular

[stevethemanjordan 6,952]

was he responsible for the infamous 'Grandma' line?

I believe so C&B.

[Late Draft Pick 48]

Perhaps lackadaisical would be a better term?

I wouldn't say Jack was lackadaisical. Laconic to me has always meant 'not flustered and with the minimum effort required' (which would fit the dictionary definition of loaconic)and I think that that is the meaning that people intend when they describe a player even though, as has been pointed out many times, it means with a minimum of words. The thing is that the word laconic refers also to a person's 'style' and that is why it has crept in to football descriptions of players. Lackadaisical refers to behaviours. Some players seem to need a lot of effort to do certain things whereas Jack Watts does things without that 'in your face' effort.

[rpfc 27,611]

No such thing as loyalty until pens put to contract, even someone with your IQ knows that.

mjt, we have gone through this. Comedy is only possible if the premise is remotely plausible; if we are in the alley measuring IQs - the money is on rpfc.

As for your point - I remember posting in a thread that had a number of posters who had damned him after that Footy Show appearance and his delay of signing his contract. Do we not look silly if we damn his lack of loyalty and then applaud it a few months later? Either we were too quick to adjudge his lack of loyalty, or we are giving him unwarranted praise now.

In that thread I wrote this:

A great number of you might do an about face if he re-signs...

Look, we were all worried about the stories emanating from the club about Neeld's effect on the players and the fact that there were players who were keen to leave if Neeld was still in charge.

It was a driving force, for many, behind the desire to remove Neeld.

Now it comes to light that, yes, the players were not happy and that Watts was a player whose desire to remain at the club was shaken by a head coach we selected to coach the club in Spetember 2011.

Now it is August 2013 and we have another decision to make. And we have no coach, no President, no head of footy, and no midfield (which will effect Watts as one of our prized assets...er players).

Frankly, I would trade him if a suitable mid came along but I am not about to burn an asset just because he has the level headed belief to make sure the club pulls its finger out before he signs on for another few years of being the clubs lightning rod.

You do not build a list by being 'hurt' by remarks in the media and making ambit claims and blanket statements about the future of players.

You coax him back to the fold and if the right trade comes in you pull the trigger.

Some of you are making this very personal.

The thread is here (http://demonland.com/forums/index.php?/topic/34766-jack-watts-more-discussion-for-those-who-havent-had-enough/) for those that want to opine further, or revise, or rehash their remarks as I have done here.

[Slartibartfast 15,937]

As for your point - I remember posting in a thread that had a number of posters who had damned him after that Footy Show appearance and his delay of signing his contract. Do we not look silly if we damn his lack of loyalty and then applaud it a few months later? Either we were too quick to adjudge his lack of loyalty, or we are giving him unwarranted praise now.

There is no disloyalty until he signs with someone else.

[DemonOX 8,546]

Our midfield will improve out of sight this year there is no doubt about that.

Like your optimism DT.

I hope u r right.

[Demon_Tingles 211]

Like your optimism DT.

I hope u r right.

I believe it will. Purely for two reasons

1) Let's be honest it can't be worse

2) We have proven ball winners at AFL level in there and a bit of depth with that

[Moonshadow 16,363]

I think most of us said it couldn't get any worse this time last year Tingles.

[Demon_Tingles 211]

I think most of us said it couldn't get any worse this time last year Tingles.

So very true .. but if last year wasn't rock bottom then what was?

Also our recruiting this year easily surpasses anything from the previous three in terms of adding experience.

[Whispering_Jack 28,027]

It's hard to tell whether Watts was the victim of the hype and the way he was brought into the team or whether he suffered from being in a poor side without the leadership and experience around him. We also don't know what transpired when it came to making that decision to stay but I'm glad that he did.

Watching him train yesterday, I was wondering whether we were about to witness a sea change with his attitude to the workload he's faced under the new coaching regime at the club. Will it translate into the player we expected to see when he was first drafted?

There were signs during the course of the drills that he's on his way. He competed hard and won more than his share of one on one contests and that's what you'd expect from one who is, after all, one of the most skillful and talented members of the list.

But what happens on the training track doesn't necessarily translate into championship football under the pressure of match conditions. The best individual efforts I've seen at this sort of training were from Colin Sylvia in his early days and Tom Scully about three years ago when he blitzed in a session at Casey Fields. Neither of them has to date been able to replicate what I saw in a whole game, let alone over a season or longer.

Having said that, he looks in good nick and, if played on a wing, could create havoc if he's capable of running out full games at the intensity that position demands these days. He'll out mark his opponents and if he has hunger for the ball will be good at ground level, linking up and, with his good disposal and decision making and ability to read the play, could be a damaging player.

A lot of ifs there but, under a new coaching regimen and with better players around him in the midfield, I'd give him a good chance of proving the critics wrong.

[Robbie57 1,991]

* Dunn - I am not a huge fan of his but he is working hard and he has a beautfiul kick

* Pederson - worked his butt off and his defensive pressure on more nimble players was really good today

Any questions I am happy to try and answer.

Jut looked at the pics of training and Dunn looked switched on, is it possible he will improve under Roos? Same,with pederson? I'd be interested in the thoughts of those watching training.

[Demon_Tingles 211]

Jut looked at the pics of training and Dunn looked switched on, is it possible he will improve under Roos? Same,with pederson? I'd be interested in the thoughts of those watching training.

Biggest thing for Dunn I think is his lack of confidence. He is all false bravado when he is playing and I think that is because he knows that he is a major whipping boy for all demon fans. With a vote of confidence from a master coach like Paul Roos, I think we may see him improve further this season. He has all the tools to be a good player and I think Paul Roos will make him believe in himself.

[nutbean 8,837]

Its simple for me.

I have to believe that players will improve under the Roos regime. Therefore I am giving everyone a clean slate and lets see what happens. I wont make bold predictions of "xxxx won't be here in 12 months" or " XXX will never make a forward/Midfielder/defender/footballer". I am just going to wait and see who blossoms but my gut tells me that there will be some surprises -we will see some footballers who have largely been written off come good.

[Whispering_Jack 28,027]

A little anecdote from Monday's training that I omitted to mention concerning Watts. The story goes that his mother and Jayden Hunt's mother are golfing partners so it was interesting to see the two sons pitted against each other at one point during training. Watts won the contest but I was really wondering if they spent any time discussing their mums' golf handicaps

Well, I thought it was funny anyway.