Bombers scandal: charged, <redacted> and <infracted>

[DemonWA 3,434]

And I think the Hird camp does have a point.

Really?

[McQueen 17,862]

If Hird had never played a game for the Bombers, let alone becoming a favourite son and club champion, most Bombers supporters would want him hanged by now.

[deanox 8,574]

admitting guilt when you are not guilty, or "rolling over" as you say sounds weak to me. Essendon are fighting this, Dean. We didn't even attempt to fight it,Don came out saying he would but we never did. Our club is weak from the core to the outside (Jack Viney, N. Jones etc. excluded). I am confident though that with the new head honchos this will change.

To clarify, we didn't about guilt to taking, we agreed to accept the AFLs charge of bringing the game into disrepute by employing two people who made comments that were prejudicial to the interests of the game.

If we didn't accept those charges the afl might have (I haven't seen the evidence) pushed ahead with tanking claims, ending up in further sanctions. The outcome might have still been not guilty for tanking but guilty of bringing the game into disrepute by deliberately not trying to win games, ie playing players or of position, surgery etc. ending in greater sanctions. I think we negotiated what we, and our legal advice, saw was the "best" possible outcome.

With Essendon, Hird and Co, the charges are based around poor (negligent) management and putting players at risk (injecting with unknown substances). This has nothing to do with guilty or not of using banned drugs and everything to do with not running background checks on new staff, allowing players to be injected by a "scientist" and off site without doctors approval etc.

Essendon could roll over and accept the charges against hird and the club with respect to their negligent mismanagement and get less sanctions and the brief wouldn't have been released.

[Machsy 2,856]

Really?

Technically, yes.

In terms of being denied natural justice and the conflict of interest.

[deanox 8,574]

Even still, I don't imagine Burnside charges differently depending on the case he is working on, nor is the type of bloke who is struggling for work.

I believe he is the type to not get involved in a frivolous claim.

And I think the Hird camp does have a point.

The problem is, it doesn't dissolve him of all culpability, it just slightly lessens his culpability.

Edit: in fact, not even that. It just casts some legitimate doubt on Hird's ability to get a fair hearing.

In all likelihood, if an independent arbiter presides, it will cost the AFL a lot more, but Hird will still cop the majority of what he has coming.

It's just Hird's way of causing as much carnage as he can, as he continues the downward spiral.

Hird may win the battle but I doubt he'll win the war. He may win the independent hearing or the delay but he is just delaying the inevitable.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Even still, I don't imagine Burnside charges differently depending on the case he is working on, nor is the type of bloke who is struggling for work.

I believe he is the type to not get involved in a frivolous claim.

And I think the Hird camp does have a point.

The problem is, it doesn't dissolve him of all culpability, it just slightly lessens his culpability.

Edit: in fact, not even that. It just casts some legitimate doubt on Hird's ability to get a fair hearing.

In all likelihood, if an independent arbiter presides, it will cost the AFL a lot more, but Hird will still cop the majority of what he has coming.

It's just Hird's way of causing as much carnage as he can, as he continues the downward spiral.

I reckon he's dirty after not getting his way. strong determination can cause ill will when the yin, or the yang is on the up, & when the equinox, is the best time of year.

but apparently he was warned many times, months & months before the hammer fell.

apart from playing god, now he's dragged others with him.

Edited August 23, 2013 by dee-luded

[Redleg 37,564]

If Hird had never played a game for the Bombers, let alone becoming a favourite son and club champion, most Bombers supporters would want him hanged by now.

Can't see anyone arguing with you on that.

[DemonWA 3,434]

Technically, yes.

In terms of being denied natural justice and the conflict of interest.

I fail to see how Hird has been denied natural justice, he's been charged with an offence. There will be a hearing to determine his guilt.

Based on his logic every person arrested and charged with a crime can suefor being denied natural justice before their court date?

[Gorgoroth 12,313]

Really?

Yep, a point at each of the bazillion needles given to his players.

Edited August 22, 2013 by Gorgoroth

[dees189227 10,762]

It seems everyone has forgotten about Trengove and the cream for the minute.

[DeeSpencer 23,123]

It seems everyone has forgotten about Trengove and the cream for the minute.

With AOD apparently in some state of flux and the Essendon players likely heading to avoiding penalties it looks like Trenners will be ok.

I'm slightly more concerned we never got to the bottom of who did what in engaging Dank. Were Misson and Craig in the know or was it just the doctor.

I can see why Hird is upset. He's been duped and he feels targetted. But I'm sure the AFL don't want his head on a plate they just want a sound result that sends a warning to the rest of the comp. Maybe he saw their potential punishment as completely unreasonable considering he thinks he was as much a victim of Dank as anyone else. But he needs to get over it.

Hird is suffering a narcissistic injury.

[dee-luded 2,958]

It seems everyone has forgotten about Trengove and the cream for the minute.

not at all, how many essendon players have been charged for injecting one another? or having others injected.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I really hate these endless sagas and hence I have pretty much steered clear of this entire story

Can someone do me a solid and give me the current update in a nutshell of what is happening

thanks

[Young Dee 1,302]

I really hate these endless sagas and hence I have pretty much steered clear of this entire story

Can someone do me a solid and give me the current update in a nutshell of what is happening

thanks

I don't think anyone can ... not even Hird (I think he has started actually believing the [censored] that comes out of his mouth)

Edited August 22, 2013 by Young Dee

[DemonWA 3,434]

I really hate these endless sagas and hence I have pretty much steered clear of this entire story

Can someone do me a solid and give me the current update in a nutshell of what is happening

thanks

I'm assuming you only really want the last couple of days?

AFL made the charges levelled against EFC & Hird and Co public, including some of the supporting documents and evidence (most of which has been covered by Media over the saga anyway)

EFC & Hird Freaked out, as they assumed the AFL were going to keep all of it underwraps until a verdict had been reached

Hird lodges case with Supreme Court and within the lodgement throws hot water on the AFL and Andrew D, by stating that they went againt the ACC's confidentiality agreement prior to the public anouncement

thats pretty much it.

[Moonshadow 16,163]

I read the charges report last night. Aside from natural justice and conflict of interest claims, if even half of what is claimed is true then the Bombers and Hird (amongst others) have an awful lot to answer for. Sounds disgraceful and highly unprofessional. I was quite shocked at the lack of common sense.

Just hope Trenners and the other Dees are not found to be doing similar.

[Young Dee 1,302]

I read the charges report last night. Aside from natural justice and conflict of interest claims, if even half of what is claimed is true then the Bombers and Hird (amongst others) have an awful lot to answer for. Sounds disgraceful and highly unprofessional. I was quite shocked at the lack of common sense.

Just hope Trenners and the other Dees are not found to be doing similar.

I just pictured you lying in bed with a hot coco in one hand and the report in the other.

Good night?

Can you summaries it in 100 pages or less?

Edited August 22, 2013 by Young Dee

[Dr. Gonzo 22,412]

I suspect an injunction will be sought and we will not be much the wiser until the courts come back from recess is 2014.

Essendon/Hird will not win. They had a chance to negotiate an outcome on lesser charges (as we did successfully) but they chose to fight, the AFL withdrew their revised charges and will now nail them to the wall. They will be lucky if they're not deregistered/playing for 0 points for the next 2 seasons.

The original negotiated penalties the AFL offered may have seemed harsh ($2.5M fine, loss of 2 years 1st & 2nd round draft picks, loss of 2013 points, 12 month suspension for Hird and lesser suspensions for the rest and with lesser charges) but they will seem minor compared to what the final penalties will end up being.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Essendon/Hird will not win. They had a chance to negotiate an outcome on lesser charges (as we did successfully) but they chose to fight, the AFL withdrew their revised charges and will now nail them to the wall. They will be lucky if they're not deregistered/playing for 0 points for the next 2 seasons.

The original negotiated penalties the AFL offered may have seemed harsh ($2.5M fine, loss of 2 years 1st & 2nd round draft picks, loss of 2013 points, 12 month suspension for Hird and lesser suspensions for the rest and with lesser charges) but they will seem minor compared to what the final penalties will end up being.

essendon isn't their target... its an emblem, an entity, a thing... it can't defend itself, nor can it hurt itself. but others can hurt it.

Only others can take its name thru Mud.

they, are the targets, because of their untoward gifts they brought to things.

Edited August 22, 2013 by dee-luded

[Blinkybill 276]

I don't know if it's been said before, but the only precedent for this in Australia is the Melbourne Storm salary cap breaches. I know there are differences in the offences, but its interesting to look at the response. The Storm took their medicine with unity and dignity. Played for nothing for the best part of a season, and emerged stronger.

The best thing Essendon can do is to stop turning this into a lawyers picnic, admit wrongdoing, cop it sweet and plan for the future. This will not be buried in the Supreme Court (indeed, I believe it will be bounced back to the AFL Commission quick smart), and these tactics will continue to damage the club for many years if Hird and co keeps this up.

I'm not worried about the pain Essendon will suffer (in fact I revel in it), but the damage to the code, particularly in expansion states, will be extreme.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I don't know if it's been said before, but the only precedent for this in Australia is the Melbourne Storm salary cap breaches. I know there are differences in the offences, but its interesting to look at the response. The Storm took their medicine with unity and dignity. Played for nothing for the best part of a season, and emerged stronger.

The best thing Essendon can do is to stop turning this into a lawyers picnic, admit wrongdoing, cop it sweet and plan for the future. This will not be buried in the Supreme Court (indeed, I believe it will be bounced back to the AFL Commission quick smart), and these tactics will continue to damage the club for many years if Hird and co keeps this up.

I'm not worried about the pain Essendon will suffer (in fact I revel in it), but the damage to the code, particularly in expansion states, will be extreme.

but the storm had magnificent leadership, & a great care for the game, apart from a couple of listless vaga bods.

[Cards13 9,117]

With AOD apparently in some state of flux and the Essendon players likely heading to avoiding penalties it looks like Trenners will be ok.

I'm slightly more concerned we never got to the bottom of who did what in engaging Dank. Were Misson and Craig in the know or was it just the doctor.

I can see why Hird is upset. He's been duped and he feels targetted. But I'm sure the AFL don't want his head on a plate they just want a sound result that sends a warning to the rest of the comp. Maybe he saw their potential punishment as completely unreasonable considering he thinks he was as much a victim of Dank as anyone else. But he needs to get over it.

Hird is suffering a narcissistic injury.

I don't think there is any flux, ASADA stated again last night it was a banned substance. Waters are very muddied.

[Moonshadow 16,163]

I just pictured you lying in bed with a hot coco in one hand and the report in the other.

Good night?

Can you summaries it in 100 pages or less?

I thought I saw someone peeking in through the window at about 11pm last night. What did you have in your hand, YD?

[dee-luded 2,958]

father of the Year 32, what a joke... nothing to see here.

give it way tim, & take a rest from the TV to...

[DemonFrog 1,347]

The thing that still amazes me is the essendon mob seem to completely miss ie. choice to

Is that it was not the AFL that went down their supplements path.

It was not the AFL that ran it in a shambolic way.

It was not the AFL that hired people of doubtful quality with no checks.

It was not the AFL that had to admit in February 2013 months after the program finished that they had no idea what there players were given.

It is not the AFL that said in that same meeting that as the Coach I accept full responsibility for what went on in 2012.

It is not the AFL that is under investigation by ASADA and the ACC.

Give me a break essendon you screwed up in a major way.

Now stand up and take what is due.

So if it not the AFL who did these things then who?