NAB CUP 3: ST. KILDA

[Hannibal 5,814]

Rubbish... demonstrates your understanding of the game and of talent. Watts is one of the better draft choices we have made in a dismal period. For you to jerk around like you do is clear evidence of trolling behaviour. I don't know if you were at Nab 1 v Nth etc... or have ever noticed Jacks highlights over his short career. Nothing you cough up can ever distort the fact that he is a versatile running tall that has excellent kicking skills, very good marking skills and great play-reading ability. If you can't see that you are a poor judge.

You're arguably the worst judge of football I've read Wayne. No mean feat. Congrats.

Watts is a soft dud.

[BAMF 4,385]

You're arguably the worst judge of football I've read Wayne. No mean feat. Congrats.

Watts is a soft dud.

I agree with you, but your going a bit far. He is not a dud. Not yet anyway.

A number 1 draft pick who was going to become our number 1 forward has become our number 5 backman. Very disapointing so far.

We really need him to step up this year. Im sick of reading other posters harp on about Viney, Hogan and Tompus being the saviours of this club. They are first year players ffs. Every year we think it will be the latest draftees who will perform miricles.

Watts, Trengove, Bail, Strauss, Blease, Grimes and Tapscott. These are the players who should be showing rapid improvement this year. We need these guys to step up and fill the void.

[Pates 9,660]

You're arguably the worst judge of football I've read Wayne. No mean feat. Congrats.

Watts is a soft dud.

On what I've seen of him this year, Watts would be my outsider for B&F this year. I'm quietly confident on top 5.

[DemonDave 1,089]

Apparently this is a rare game where Howe didn't take a screamer and we all know that will happen on a regular basis once the real stuff begins.

Nope, he did take a big hanger, second quarter I think it was, right on the outer wing!

A few observations:

Dunn's intelligent kicking today was a definite highlight. He was able to use the sheer depth of his kicks as a weapon with the breeze, and smart enough to keep them low and 'steered' to teammates against it. Apart from N Jones easily our best out there today. The classic sneak supergoal a special, someone else hesitantly lining up 55 out with the breeze, gives the handball to Dunn just behind him, who unleashes with the perfect right-left wind bias from 60 out, never looked like missing. The Saints also tried to setup Aaron Siposs with the same thing to no success, he is also a superb long kick.

N Jones the spark all day, again. I expect he'll wear a hard tag most games this year as he really is our only decent mid. Magner got better and better as the game went on after a slow start, I think this is a regular thing with him as his lack of pace means the game speed has to come back to his level after quarter time. Nevertheless, he was very effective after that interval today.

Jamar killed them, but wily vets such as Del Santo, Hayes and Montagna seemed to read him better than our mids. The backup ruck spot would have to be Sellars right now. Not only is he showing an improved attack on his marking leads, but he seems much more lively than Pederson. I think only one of those two can play in the side at any one time.

The free kick count was horribly lopsided. A lot the of ones we gave away were deserved, but tellingly a lot of the 50-50 ones went against us. Our ill-discpline wasn't as bad as the counts suggest.

Really like the look of Matt Jones in particular, just looks comfortable at this level. Terlich also impressed as the game wore on in the last line of defence, will be a handy backup midsized/small defender.

As mentioned by Allen Jakovich in the first half some of our structures really held up, forcing the Saints into skill errors and numerous out on the fulls against the wind.

It's still the short handballs to guys standing still that kills us however, how does this ghastly habit develop?

Hogan for the first time at this level had a defender play him very, very tightly all day, always never more than a short distance off his back. I think it was Dempster, who was All-Australian recently.

Nevertheless his sheer workrate and determination to get to every contest meant he still contributed positively.

Still disappointed in the relative anonymity of Luke Tapscott. He kicked one nice goal very early in the first, then had a couple of noticeable touches in the last quarter, but in between that nothing. No way is he in the side for Round 1.

Without looking in great detail, I assume the 'outs' for us today far outweighed St Kildas. A lineup that includes Riewoldt, Milne, Kosi, Hayes, Del Santo, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert, Jones etc etc is just about as good as they get.

[Hannibal 5,814]

On what I've seen of him this year, Watts would be my outsider for B&F this year. I'm quietly confident on top 5.

It's candid camera, right ?

[Pates 9,660]

Some pics from today:

[Hardnut 327]

Unfortunately I think you do.

As for training and opportunities ? You must endorse Bailey's methods. I don't. I'm rapt that Neeld has been the first coach in eons to clear the dead wood from this club.

You seemingly wanted more of the same. I can never understand why supporters become emotionally attached with duds.

You clearly are entitled to your opinion.

If you checked my posts you would find that I did not support Bailey as MFC senior coach and I do not support Neeld in the same position.

I want change in the club and I can see other clubs which have embraced change and are better because of it, even if they still have a long way to go.

As for clearing dead wood - has it occurred to you that we might have brought some in - players who were not in their original club's best 22?

[Pates 9,660]

Just to follow up my pictures I've got some other thoughts from the game. Firstly It was great seeing a game out there, I think there is a definite future with us connected to Casey and I hope further down the track a H&A game could be held there, with a lot of planning with traffic management. But as you can see from the photos the turn out was encouraging.

On the game, it was kind of difficult for me personally to get a read on how players performed, mostly because I don't recognise half the squad. But Nate Jones was as usual in amongst the action a lot, Jimmy Toumpas showed good signs, and Hogan continues to excite me (he didn't do lots, but his work rate and efforts were excellent and he took two very good contested marks in the final quarter). The second quarter was disappointing mainly because they really couldn't find a way to stop the rot. Panic started to set in and decision making fell to pieces. Was happy that we held our own after that and didn't let the margin blow out. If we'd taken our opportunities we could've made a game of it in the last.

The only other thing I wanted to mention was I was disappointed with the attitude of some in the cheersquad and a few hanging around. I understand the desire to get stuck into Milne, he sh!ts me as well, but some of the slurs that we being yelled at him were disgusting. And honestly serves no purpose but to upset and offend fans around that included young children. At the G those comments get lost in the wind and the stirring of the crowd, at Casey fields you could hear it all and frankly it's not good enough. It's a NAB practice game FFS!

That was the only downside to pleasant, albeit very hot day.

[Whispering_Jack 30,575]

Pates - great pics but you didn't happen to get one of the team running out today, did you?

My grandson was one of the mascots.

He wore the number 31 which meant that he made history today being the first mascot to run out with the captain of an MFC team with both wearing that number for almost half a century. And we all know what the Demons did the last time that happened!

[P-man 13,366]

You don't get that Martin's best position is in the ruck and that he's a very average key forward. We all know that Martin, who is an uncoordinated gumby, can have his 'athletic' good days, but he's no loss. He certainly doesn't make us better. And Moloney picked on crap sides and was a dud against the good ones. A B grader if I'm kind.

Disagree on both counts. The modern game pretty much requires a second ruck who can go forward and kick goals and Martin can be that option. Competed extremely well inside 50 tonight, and actually took one of the best contested marks I've seen in this NAB Cup. Admittedly at 26 you have to wonder how much more improvement is in him, but he strikes me as a late bloomer just entering his best period. His athleticism for his size is pretty remarkable and if he can just get his radar for goal sorted, look out. I was sorry to see him go and that hasn't changed.

Beamer I couldn't care less that he's gone. Spat in the face of every supporter with his piddly efforts of last year and strongly suspect he wasn't the greatest influence in the change room. That said, he has shown in this pre-season what he is truly capable of, winning alot of contested ball and working hard all over the ground. At his best, he's a sizeable loss, no doubt.

Edited March 9, 2013 by P_Man

[hardtack 10,612]

Sorry, he's a horrible pick one. Not a horrible footballer by any means, but a horrible pick one. He's border-line best 22 FFS. He can only play on smalls, which is embarrassing and they lead him a merry dance, because they're too nimble.

It's a bit of a joke.

You seem to carry on as if it was Jack that assigned himself the number one pick. He is still just 21 and over the past two seasons has made steady improvement.

I remember everyone was lining up to put the boot into Nathan Jones until about three seasons ago when it suddenly clicked, and now he is on the cusp of being an 'A' grade player. There is absolutely no reason why the same can't or won't happen with Watts.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

Disagree on both counts. The modern game pretty much requires a second ruck who can go forward and kick goals and Martin can be that option. Competed extremely well inside 50 tonight, and actually took one of the best contested marks I've seen in this NAB Cup. Admittedly at 26 you have to wonder how much more improvement is in him, but he strikes me as a late bloomer just entering his best period. His athleticism for his size is pretty remarkable and if he can just get his radar for goal sorted, look out. I was sorry to see him go and that hasn't changed.

Beamer I couldn't care less that he's gone. Spat in the face of every supporter with his piddly efforts of last year and strongly suspect he wasn't the greatest influence in the change room. That said, he has shown in this pre-season what he is truly capable of, winning alot of contested ball and working hard all over the ground. At his best, he's a sizeable loss, no doubt.

PMan, don't get seduced by cameo appearances from Stef Martin.

Will be cooling his heels at Southport by round 3 or 4. He'll forget it's a team game.

Moloney is still a finger pointer and not much else.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

You seem to carry on as if it was Jack that assigned himself the number one pick. He is still just 21 and over the past two seasons has made steady improvement.I remember everyone was lining up to put the boot into Nathan Jones until about three seasons ago when it suddenly clicked, and now he is on the cusp of being an 'A' grade player. There is absolutely no reason why the same can't or won't happen with Watts.

There is a huge reason why the same won't happen to Watts.....it's called competing.

[jacey 333]

Sorry, he's a horrible pick one. Not a horrible footballer by any means, but a horrible pick one. He's border-line best 22 FFS. He can only play on smalls, which is embarrassing and they lead him a merry dance, because they're too nimble.

It's a bit of a joke.

You are right but of course you go overboard to make your point.

Pick one is for a "franchise" player. Jack Watts isn't that.

I think he'll still be a fine player and play plenty of good games but he is a bad pick one.

I still hold hope he just finds that switch but it's hoping.

[stuie 7,374]

He was never going to do it at the MFC. He had enough chances.

WTF?!!

[stuie 7,374]

you may be right. But like Moloney he was not going to give his best for Melbourne again. I still think Stef will be a good footballer, but we had to get rid of him. Hence he went cheap.

186 was very costly in so many ways.

What a rubbish post! Why did we "have" to get rid of Martin? And what has it got to do with 186? FMD. Russell Crowe has a UFO for you too WYL.

[stuie 7,374]

rabble rabble Jack Watts rabble rabble Ben Hur insulting anyone who disagrees with him rabble rabble finger pointer rabble.... What was this thread about again? It's a rabble.

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Why has this thread degenerated into a flamewar about Stef Martin? I thought we were discussing the game today?

[RalphiusMaximus 6,088]

Incidentally, my opinion of the Stef Martin trade, and indeed Cale Morton, is that the club did the right thing by the players in giving them a chance somewhere else. It's not an indictment of the players that the club didn't want them, but simply that sometimes you need a fresh start and a new environment. The AFL is littered with cases of players who have moved to a new club and had vastly improved careers. This in no way indicates that the club they came from was doing things wrong, it simply says that things didn't work out for them and when given a clean slate and a new way of doing things elsewhere they were able to thrive. I will be thrilled if Martin and Morton do well at their new clubs. They both gave their all for the MFC while they were here, struggled with fitness and injury and in the end just didn't fit. Better that they have a fresh start than that they continue to struggle with us and never reach their potential.

[Nascent 9,280]

If the stats show that we had more I50's, then that negates any argument that "we couldn't get it inside 50".

The stats re clearances did not support the original proposition that we were "killed in the clearances". We actually won the centre clearances 11 7.

Against that, Disposal Efficiency of the likes of Magner, Jones and Sylvia was a lot lower than that of the likes of Montagna and Dal Santo, which says something about what was happening coming out of the clearances. But then, that's another stat as well.

People here use stats when it supports their argument, and trot out the "stats don't tell the whole story" line when they don't.

I'm not arguing that we were killed in the clearances or couldn't get it inside 50. In fact, I'm not trying to use stats prove or disprove how well we have played. All I'm saying is that you can't read stats and gain a full story of how a game has unfolded.

An inside 50 could be a drilled/well placed kick from a midfielder onto the [censored] of a leading forward... or it could be a scruber kick/handpass (slightly inside the arc) directly to the opposition resulting in a rebounding attack.

An "ineffective disposal" of Jones or Magner out of the centre circle may be a clearance kick under pressure that results in a another stoppage 50 metres towards our goal. Alternatively, an effective disposal could be a kick sideways or backwards that does nothing but waste 3 minutes at the end of a quarter.

[Sir Why You Little 37,120]

What a rubbish post! Why did we "have" to get rid of Martin? And what has it got to do with 186? FMD. Russell Crowe has a UFO for you too WYL.

what's your problem today Stuie?

[timD 994]

You sum up many Melbourne supporters. You don't realise that Rivers left the club as a free agent and you don't get that Moloney and Martin didn't "buy in". You don't get that Martin's best position is in the ruck and that he's a very average key forward. We all know that Martin, who is an uncoordinated gumby, can have his 'athletic' good days, but he's no loss. He certainly doesn't make us better. And Moloney picked on crap sides and was a dud against the good ones. A B grader if I'm kind.

The footy stupid are alive and well.

Ben, this bloke has a clear pro Adelaide, anti neeld agenda. He furiously denied it last year but it was plain. AoB tried to get him to argue facts and this joker just stopped posting. I don't think he is 'typical MFC" - he has a clear agenda that he won't admit to and is using ideas he doesn't understand to back it up.

[CBDees 3,167]

You are right but of course you go overboard to make your point.

Pick one is for a "franchise" player. Jack Watts isn't that.

I think he'll still be a fine player and play plenty of good games but he is a bad pick one.

Do you seriously consider that the $M-Man was a better pick one and will be a better investment (in this case for GWS) in the long run? In five years time, let me predict that Watts will be a much more highly-regarded (valuable) player than Scully and one of the elite players in the competition with a much more rounded array of skill sets than Scully. Moreover he is of the type of character that the MFC should foster in its playing group.

[jimcor 212]

You seem to carry on as if it was Jack that assigned himself the number one pick. He is still just 21 and over the past two seasons has made steady improvement.I remember everyone was lining up to put the boot into Nathan Jones until about three seasons ago when it suddenly clicked, and now he is on the cusp of being an 'A' grade player. There is absolutely no reason why the same can't or won't happen with Watts.

Good point. Jones is a great example of player development and JW has much more natural talent to work with. Whether he's a 'marquee' player or not is irrelevant to me. Like most of our recent first round picks (particularly under Prendergast), they were chosen for their talent, application and their potential for development and JW satisfied all 3 criteria for MFC and most of the commentators.

He will be an absolute champion - at MFC or elsewhere if we don't get it right.

[Forest Demon 4,681]

One thing I have learnt on this forum is that if you have an opinion on Jack Watts, you are better of keeping it to yourself, because no matter what it is, good or bad, or how correct you are, there will be a few who try to shoot you down in flames.