Jack Watts

[low flying Robbo 979]

Don't get sucked in by NikNats hilight reel, you'll notice that he'll do the amazing flashy things then kick it out of bounds.

So true. I believe mid-season, we saw the most replayed point ever kicked....

[stuie 7,374]

So true. I believe mid-season, we saw the most replayed point ever kicked....

Some here would give him goal of the year anyways by the sounds of it..

[bing181 8,320]

Watts is coming back from injury, he isnt match fit its simple as that.

His first game for 6 weeks, he's rusty and off the pace, and we have 3 pages of posts bagging him.

[whatwhat say what 19,962]

Watts is a conundrum wrapped in a riddle. He promises a lot but has thus far failed to deliver.

He actually reminds me of Andrew Mackie, only nowhere near as hard at the contest.

It's that real lack of desire to attack the contest bit instead always hang back that bugs me the most.

Thus far in their career, NikNat is miles ahead in terms of what he's delivering, and he's not even as great as the wraps on him would have you believe.

[DEELIRIOUS 156]

How many 196cm talls have you seen get outbodied by 185cm midfielders? None? Just what I thought. I still like him but God! He must get better in a 1v1 situation!

[Hannibal 5,814]

...walker is only 23.

22 - he's 1 year older than Watts.

and what happened to Fergie ? Only a new poster, but I liked what he was offering.

Edited August 27, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[Nasher 33,187]

22 - he's 1 year older than Watts.

and what happened to Fergie ? Only a new poster, but I liked what he was offering.

He was an alias for a poster currently serving a suspension.

[Hardnut 327]

Watts is a conundrum wrapped in a riddle. He promises a lot but has thus far failed to deliver.

He actually reminds me of Andrew Mackie, only nowhere near as hard at the contest.

It's that real lack of desire to attack the contest bit instead always hang back that bugs me the most.

Thus far in their career, NikNat is miles ahead in terms of what he's delivering, and he's not even as great as the wraps on him would have you believe.

We are crossing over with another thread - time to combine them?

Watts is 4 cm taller than Mackie and a few kg lighter. Taylor Walker is the same height as Mackie and 16 kg heavier!

I like Watts, but IMO he needs to bulk up - he appears lighter than last year.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,085]

main thing yesterday was how thin he looked compared to his matchup. Lacks the body strength and thus confidence. I want to see him bulk up a lot.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,085]

We are crossing over with another thread - time to combine them?

Watts is 4 cm taller than Mackie and a few kg lighter. Taylor Walker is the same height as Mackie and 16 kg heavier!

I like Watts, but IMO he needs to bulk up - he appears lighter than last year.

beat me too it.

[Hardnut 327]

beat me too it.

Sorry mate!

[Brian Wilson 331]

You have completely missed the point. The problem with Watts is and always has been his lack of intensity. It has nothing to do with skill, talent or experience. It's between the ears. Look at Greene and Cameron for GWS, in fact I started a thread about this topic a week ago on this exact point with Greene.

I can think of only two occasions where I've seen Watts really attack a situation, fight and look ruthless to get the ball. Even last week he would kick the ball then just stand flat-footed.

He can rack up all the loose possessions, but as we have seen with Morton that accounts for next to nothing.

Far too much emphasis is placed on the reading of body language. Vague concepts like 'intensity', 'attack(ing) a situation', and 'look(ing) ruthless' have never won a game of football. They merely tell us about a supporter's perception. Let's focus on what he has actually done this year.

[thaipantsman 180]

He was lamentable yesterday. No intensity whatsoever.

I read in the "optomists" thread that he's one of the positives to have come out of the year. I couldn't disagree more. We're desperate for a quality key forward, which is why Jesse Hogan is a must, and we have a former no. 1 draft pick who's 196 cm's and about to end his 4th year. Watts trained all preseason as a forward, but after a poor start ended up at Casey on a wing. Finally the club decided to send him back to play a sweeper, or intercept role. He spends his time guarding smalls. It's actually pretty embarrassing. He's a tall Bryce Gibbs.

To be a quality key forward you need to have courage in the air and intensity. Watts has neither. Jeremy Howe has courage in the air. Mitch Clark has courage in the air. Watts doesn't. I don't expect Watts to split packs, as it's clear he's not that type of player, but I do expect intensity, courage in the air and a player that embraces physical contact. Watts hates physical contact.

Watts will probably play 200 games and many of them will be "nice", but he's a disastrous pick one. Did I want him at pick one ? Absolutely. I was wrong. I know they'll be the cries, "but he's only 21" and "talls take time", which is all very true, but I've seen more than enough of how he plays to know that he doesn't have the competitive streak required to succeed as a key forward. I watched him play for Casey Seconds years ago and the alarm bells started ringing. Even then he would pick and choose which contests he was prepared to enter. He plays the game on his own terms and won't remove himself from a very defined comfort zone.

If those in charge at Melbourne don't trade for Jesse Hogan in this year's mini draft they're nutjobs. He's 17, 193/4 cm's, and already 91 kilos. He'll be 19 for the 2014 season and will impact straight away. He has explosive pace off the mark, he splits packs, he loves physical contact, he has courage in the air, he's aggressive, he's a great mark, and his playing style is similar to Jonathan Brown. Put simply, he's everything Watts isn't. Hogan at CHF and Clark at FF will dominate backlines for years. You only had to see Walker and Tippett to see the value of two big key forwards.

Geez Ben Hur we need you to rev the boys up a bit. That was some speech and a lot of hard truths (though don't know much about Ben Hogan). Watts will improve vastly with some mentoring...don't worry. He does have the talent. He's actually a big Unit and can play small. Good things take time and nothing is immediate unless you go for an established Big guy like Merrett or Brown/Cloke type. Patience...

[thaipantsman 180]

22 - he's 1 year older than Watts.

and what happened to Fergie ? Only a new poster, but I liked what he was offering.

Walker is also a MOngrel type which is what Watts need to install in his game.

[RalphiusMaximus 5,994]

...

I suppose you think that Justin Leppitsch was a failure as well? He was recruited as a key forward. Those AA noms don't really count if they're not in the position you were recruited to play right?

As I have pointed out in the other Watts thread started this week, He stacks up pretty well next to NicNat right now. Personally, I think that that is pretty impressive given that Watts has played 2/3 the games and is almost a full year younger. While NicNat is a competitive beast and wins in tackles and contested ball, Watts has him hands down in Disposals, Marks and Efficiency.

I am perfectly willing to admit that he doesn't look like being another Davd Neitz, but what we have is a sublimely skilled young man who can play wing, HBF or HFF and use his speed, height and skills to set up our attack. I'm pretty happy with that to be honest.

Edited August 27, 2012 by RalphiusMaximus

[titan_uranus 22,923]

Crap thread.

Watts' 2012 has been much better than his 2011. It's also been much better than a lot of other MFC players' 2012s.

No excusing yesterday, he was terrible. But to ask him to be at the top of his game week in, week out, when no one else is, is a bit unfair. He was given tasks he clearly isn't capable of (Frawley's brainfades meant Watts was continually required to mop up his problems).

This year, on the whole, he's shown improvement in both skill, strength and courage. I see only upside in Watts, as opposed to about 15 other MFC players.

Is he going to be a CHF/FF? No. Does that matter? No.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I suppose you think that Justin Leppitsch was a failure as well? He was recruited as a key forward. Those AA noms don't really count if they're not in the position you were recruited to play right?

Good God man. Leppitsch had a go. Leppitsch put his body on the line. Leppitsch was unconditional. Leppitsch didn't play the game on his terms. Leppitsch had courage in the air.

It's not just that Watts isn't what he was drafted to be, it's that he isn't what any player would aspire to be.

[stuie 7,374]

Good God man. Leppitsch had a go. Leppitsch put his body on the line. Leppitsch was unconditional. Leppitsch didn't play the game on his terms. Leppitsch had courage in the air.

It's not just that Watts isn't what he was drafted to be, it's that he isn't what any player would aspire to be.

FFS... How do you get your head so far up there when it's so big?

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Great thread.

It's a hard pill to swallow, hard like a marshmallow.

There's no dancing around the fact that if the ball isn't placed in his hands, he's not going to get it himself with any urgency.

Sad.

[JJJ 598]

I hated pretty much every aspect of his game. Even his kicks were mainly short switching kicks rather than anything remotely attacking. He is a long way behind where he should be and 1 of many reasons why we are so crap.

At 1 stage he had to go back with the flight but didn't commit to the contest. Instead he meekly jogged back and put his arms out to mark the ball which almost resulted in an injury. My U/8's coach wouldn't accept that. It was soft. (Nor would my APS coach but that is another debate)

Lastly, as a forward he struggles due to his lack of forward nous and urgency. His leading patterns are horribly flawed, he shows an unwillingness to run at the high ball with any ferocity and he doesn't demand the footy on long searching leads. (which should be a strength for an athlete such as him) For someone who showed great ability to read the play as a backman, Watts' positioning as a forward is laughable.

I cannot see the light with this kid at the moment. AS previously mentioned he will be OK to Good for his career but perhaps not the A Grader tall we so desperately need.

Lift damn you!

[Chook 14,630]

The thing that worries me about Watts is that he actually does have elite physical attributes, but he doesn't use them. He could not gain another ounce of muscle for the rest of his career, but still be a great of the game with the physical tools he has right now. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem like it will happen. "Jack Watts marks strongly out in front on a lead" is a sentence we should hear ten times a week. I've never heard it once in his entire playing days.

Great endurance, tall, good hands and super quick. He is all of those things, but doesn't put them to use.

[PaulRB 6,048]

Hate to do this but...

[Range Rover 1,935]

Hate to do this but...

And I hate to do this but ...

[Hannibal 5,814]

FFS... How do you get your head so far up there when it's so big?

Stu, your ability to process what's happening on the footy field right before your eyes is disturbingly poor. I'm not sure what your day job is but I wouldn't be leaving it any time soon.

My football views have evolved over the years. I too was originally seduced by Watt's talents, which is why I was a strong advocate of him pre-draft, but one is never too old to keep learning and I'm constantly wanting to improve my understanding of the game. The things I didn't appreciate enough were the intangibles. I've learnt that it's far easier to direct a player's natural aggression if it's wayward than it is to instill it in a player that has very little. I've learnt that it's very difficult to change a player's instinct. If they're timid about putting their body on the line it's hard to change that. You can improve it, but to what degree ? And it also depends on the position you play. If you're 175cm's you're not usually subjected to the same situations you are when you're 196cm's. I've learnt that when you're considering drafting a key forward there are prerequisites that are desirable, such as aggression, courage and a yearning for physical contact. I've learnt that there's a reason that quality key forwards that regularly impact games are as rare as hen's teeth. It's not easy to find a player with talent that has also these qualities.

When I watch Watts I see a player that won't commit to contests. When I watch Jeremy Howe I see him busting a gut to reach a marking contest from a mile off. I'm anticipating whether he'll get there in time. When I watch Watts in the same circumstances I'm watching a player that hopes he won't get there. Actually, he doesn't try. I'm watching a player that doesn't want to compete. I'm watching a player that hangs back when in the same situation a Clark, or Howe would be contesting. Jack Riewoldt, Brown, Carey, Clark, Brereton and plenty of others would just about kill their Grandmother to get to a contest. They're manic in their approach. It's what's required when you're a key forward. On occasions when Watts' knows he has no choice, because the ball has been kicked on his head, he'll usually meekly put one arm in the air and close his eyes. He has no appetite for the contest. He picks and chooses when to go. It's called "playing on your own terms".

I've seen a skinny Nathan Fyfe regularly put his body on the line. I've seen a skinny Jeremy Cameron regularly put his body on the line. He has a crack. Cameron was the youngest player in the league this year and has kicked roughly 30 goals from 16 games. Now I know that you think I'm being mean. You think I'm annoyed that he's not the type of player I was hoping for. Yes, that's true. I thought we were drafting a 600+ goal key forward and clearly we haven't. I've long been resigned to the fact that he's a poor pick one. But I'm more annoyed that he's terribly soft. I'm more annoyed that he won't put his body on the line. I'm more annoyed that he's nowhere near fulfilling his physical talents. Playing as a creative half back doesn't appease me, especially when I still see soft efforts.

Either you think I'm wrong and you think he does put his body on the line, or you think he'll substantially change his playing instincts and suddenly commit to contests he presently avoids. I don't share that optimism. If you've ever played the game you'll know that contested marking requires the most courage in Aussie Rules footy. Having your midrift exposed while you're leaping in a pack takes courage. Waiting for your ribs to take a hit, but not letting that affect your efforts in the marking contest takes courage. Waiting for an errant/deliberate fist in the head takes courage. Expecting a knee right in the small of your back takes courage. None of this is for a faint heart.

It's also not for Jack Watts.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[old55 21,780]

I agree with Watts' described limitations - but players can improve in this area - although he didn't start from so far back, our recently retired Brad Green really improved in this area and became a courageous contested player, particularly in marking contests. In ground balls he also attacked the contest but didn't have the lateral movement or quick hands to extract himself from trouble that Watts has. I think at some stage Brad Green realised what was required to be the best player he could be - I admire that.