Todd Viney - Head of Recruiting

[Redleg 41,421]

Funny this thread came up again as I just saw Todd Viney and Tim Harrington walking into the Westpac Center.

Martin.

[tonatopia 278]

Basically,

M.what can we get for Stef Martin?

C.We will swap you Dawes

M.no thanks. How about a quick midfielder? We can throw in Gysberts.

C. Do you want Wellingham?

M. If we throw in Pick 12, can we get Beams?

[Roost It 1,434]

Hard I hope.

Diamonds are created under pressure. Only the strong survive.

Clark

Watts

Jones

Grimes

McKenzie (maybe)

Sylvia

Moloney (Gone)

Davey (gone)

Green (gone)

Rivers (no)

Jamar

Jurrah (gone)

Frawley

Trengove

Howe

Garland

Bartram (gone)

Tapscott (no)

Viney

These are all good players. I have seen enough from these blokes to now that when playing at 100% ability, they play good footy.(No they are not, take off the rose coloured glasses)

Now Neeld has to get the best out of em. (most are gone)

Add Viney, 'big fish' and a few more first rounders, and we are good enough to challenge for finals and even win the [censored] thing.(no we are not)

2013, 2014, 2015!

Rip em apart.

Carn the demons.

[pantaloons 2,019]

I don't see Martin as surplus as many here do, but if he is to be traded, I wonder what we'd be after. In terms of draft picks, their first pick (20-24) would be on the lower end of the scale of what we could get for him. Jolly (15), Wood (14), Brooks (7) and Ottens are some examples of ruckmen traded for first round picks in the last decade. If we were after picks it'd likely need to be their first and second picks for our third rounder, which would likely be 4-6 spots apart. While that's not great, I'd assume that's something similar to what would need to happen to bridge the gap. As for players, Wellingham or Dawes are names thrown around here I could see the club being interested in. Wellingham's got to decide if it's Sharon or Jarrod though. You can't wear a blazer with a name like Sharrod.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I'd trade Martin. Martin could be a very handy player in a good team like Collingwood, but an average player in a team like ours. They're keen to find a second ruck that can play forward and Martin would be a nice fit.

It's win win for both clubs if we can secure a trade that is going to improve the list. I'd rather a player than a pick, because we've already got a good hand on draft day, so we might be able to get a player that is going to immediately make us better. They'd probably offer someone like Goldsack or MaCaffer, who can certainly play, but I'd prefer an Elliott type, or even Dawes for the structure he'd bring to the forward-line.

[The Chazz 4,077]

I don't see Martin as surplus as many here do, but if he is to be traded, I wonder what we'd be after. In terms of draft picks, their first pick (20-24) would be on the lower end of the scale of what we could get for him. Jolly (15), Wood (14), Brooks (7) and Ottens are some examples of ruckmen traded for first round picks in the last decade. If we were after picks it'd likely need to be their first and second picks for our third rounder, which would likely be 4-6 spots apart. While that's not great, I'd assume that's something similar to what would need to happen to bridge the gap. As for players, Wellingham or Dawes are names thrown around here I could see the club being interested in. Wellingham's got to decide if it's Sharon or Jarrod though. You can't wear a blazer with a name like Sharrod.

This IS very, very funny!

[The Chazz 4,077]

I'd trade Martin. Martin could be a very handy player in a good team like Collingwood, but an average player in a team like ours. They're keen to find a second ruck that can play forward and Martin would be a nice fit.

It's win win for both clubs if we can secure a trade that is going to improve the list. I'd rather a player than a pick, because we've already got a good hand on draft day, so we might be able to get a player that is going to immediately make us better. They'd probably offer someone like Goldsack or MaCaffer, who can certainly play, but I'd prefer an Elliott type, or even Dawes for the structure he'd bring to the forward-line.

I wouldn't be knocking back Dawes either BH. Yes, he's had a shocker this year, but still has a lot to offer, and a season like what he's had in 2012 has just lowered his asking price.

That said, I still for the life of me believe that Martin could play that Dawes-type role, especially if given time to just settle in to the spot and grow.

[Bonkers 994]

I wouldn't be knocking back Dawes either BH. Yes, he's had a shocker this year, but still has a lot to offer, and a season like what he's had in 2012 has just lowered his asking price.

That said, I still for the life of me believe that Martin could play that Dawes-type role, especially if given time to just settle in to the spot and grow.

How old is Martin now? 25? He doesn't have much more time to develop & his abilities are limited when in possession. I don't know if he can be developed any further. Dawes would offer us more structure & possibly allow us to straighten up a bit more.

[Jordie_tackles 354]

How old is Martin now? 25? He doesn't have much more time to develop & his abilities are limited when in possession. I don't know if he can be developed any further. Dawes would offer us more structure & possibly allow us to straighten up a bit more.

Dawes at his best is great, but 2012 Dawes may as well be Sellar

[Bonkers 994]

Dawes at his best is great, but 2012 Dawes may as well be Sellar

True. If you look at how he has been played this year it is in the ruck & forward. I think he is better suited to FF or CHF without having to ruck. Giving him a defined role may give him some confidence & make him more effective than asking him to do too much.

[The Chazz 4,077]

How old is Martin now? 25? He doesn't have much more time to develop & his abilities are limited when in possession. I don't know if he can be developed any further. Dawes would offer us more structure & possibly allow us to straighten up a bit more.

I can appreciate this view, and no doubt it is the majority, but all I can do is look at his 2011 form when required to play 1 role (ie in the ruck) for weeks on end. He played some very good football when left in the one position.

I think he's harshly criticised on this forum. I know his form guide wouldn't paint a pretty picture, but there's just sumfin!

[The Chazz 4,077]

True. If you look at how he has been played this year it is in the ruck & forward. I think he is better suited to FF or CHF without having to ruck. Giving him a defined role may give him some confidence & make him more effective than asking him to do too much.

But you wouldn't allow the same with Martin?

[Robbie57 2,022]

I can appreciate this view, and no doubt it is the majority, but all I can do is look at his 2011 form when required to play 1 role (ie in the ruck) for weeks on end. He played some very good football when left in the one position.

I think he's harshly criticised on this forum. I know his form guide wouldn't paint a pretty picture, but there's just sumfin!

Martin is a potentially very good player no doubt about it but that is exactly why he is up for trade. We wont get the sorts of players we need by offering up our completely rubbish players.

Collingwood needs some talls and we need forwards or mids.

We didn't talk to Cloke so they see us as being a team they can and want to do a deal with.

Lets get it done and welcome Sharon to the Dees.

[Bonkers 994]

But you wouldn't allow the same with Martin?

Don't think he is up to it. But that is just my opinion.

[pitmaster 3,578]

I've had a problem with this for the entirety of the appointment.

The more I have thought about it, the more the MFC baord strikes me as amateur hour.

The two most important appointments we ahve - recruiter and head coach are made on what basis? One is because he is already at the club and he is one of the boys and he's done a bit that is related. The other bloke is because Mick endorsed him.

Well, that is my being fairly disparaging and cynical...but I might not be that wrong.

What care have the board taken to appoint the two most crucial members of the FD? Who else did they interview? With what criteria did they make these appointments? Using what methods? What have their instructions been?

When I found out that psych testing had not been ued with Neeld, I just thought that they are absolutely no idea at all about hiring and firing. Anyone who has worked in HR, anyone who has done an MBA, anyone who bothers studying thi s issue to any degree will see that the support for using psych testing to heavily inform (not make itfor you) the process is indisputable. It is not perfect and you never use it is isolation, but you would be absolutely daft to not use it. Think of the risks of getting it wrong. Again. For both positions.

It's like using medical tests to diagnose problems rather than just going of the doctor saying "I reckon"

Sorry but it's been my experience that an MBA is the most over-hyped piece of self approving garbage devised by humankind.

I have not yet met anyone equipped with said certificate who had an original idea or anything useful to contribute. Common as muck, too, like a ticket of entry to some level of management but otherwise useless like many of the individuals who boast them.

As for the psych testing shock, as an attack on the MFC by C Wilson, it was laughable. Norm Smith would have done badly out of psych testing on all but competitiveness measures. Empathy - had none. Judgemental - damn right. Elitist and punitive - yes, sir. Plenty of attributes that would not 'test' well but stood him in great coaching stead.

[ox_5 163]

Sorry but it's been my experience that an MBA is the most over-hyped piece of self approving garbage devised by humankind.

I have not yet met anyone equipped with said certificate who had an original idea or anything useful to contribute. Common as muck, too, like a ticket of entry to some level of management but otherwise useless like many of the individuals who boast them.

As for the psych testing shock, as an attack on the MFC by C Wilson, it was laughable. Norm Smith would have done badly out of psych testing on all but competitiveness measures. Empathy - had none. Judgemental - damn right. Elitist and punitive - yes, sir. Plenty of attributes that would not 'test' well but stood him in great coaching stead.

Agree 100%. MBA & HR in the same sentence was enough for me.

[timD 994]

Sorry but it's been my experience that an MBA is the most over-hyped piece of self approving garbage devised by humankind.

I have not yet met anyone equipped with said certificate who had an original idea or anything useful to contribute. Common as muck, too, like a ticket of entry to some level of management but otherwise useless like many of the individuals who boast them.

As for the psych testing shock, as an attack on the MFC by C Wilson, it was laughable. Norm Smith would have done badly out of psych testing on all but competitiveness measures. Empathy - had none. Judgemental - damn right. Elitist and punitive - yes, sir. Plenty of attributes that would not 'test' well but stood him in great coaching stead.

MBA's are overhyped, what is your point?

Prove that Norm Smith would do badly in a psych test. Which one/s? Testing what? Against what norms/tandards? Screening for which attributes? I'd guess that hardworking, inflexible, highly intelligent, loyal and emotionally controlled would come up. Why would that be bad?

[Little Goffy 14,639]

Wait a minute... Todd Viney's coaching career goes

Melbourne assistant coach 2000

A few years coaching Moama

Hawthorn from 2005-2008

Adelaide 2009-10

So, just guessing, but those last two positions in particular suggest he's been around clubs which got their recruiting strategies very right.

He then came to Melbourne specifically in a list development role, because that was where his coaching interests were, and then after a year stepped into a senior list management role when Barry Prendergast moved on.

He's not there as some kind of 'oh, here's something for ya, big fella'.

I recognise that the situation with the father-son recruiting is not ideal, but it is far from a crisis. Unless GWS offer Todd a job in exchange for agreeing to let Jack go to them.

Edit: As a side note, HR style psych tests are garbage - easily gamed, hopelessly unreliable, and at best can only report on a persons perception of themselves. As such, they inherently favour the arrogant. They are a hurdle requirement that helps to keep management positions reserved for self-important gits.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Little Goffy

[ILLDieADemon 804]

Todd has been watching all these young guys in this year's draft from a very young age because his son has been in the same competition growing up. Todd also went over with the under18's Australian Football team this year who played over in Europe so I'm pretty sure he's more than qualified to know who the best 20 players are out of the top 100 NAB Draft this year.

Half of the other recruiters haven't played the game at elite level either.

The guy's a club legend, his been in the footy world most of his life playing and coaching, I'm pretty sure he would know a talented young player when he sees one.

Have a little bit more faith in your club guys seriously.

And I have heard we did get the Collingwood recruiter we have been chasing all season but he can't start till next year.

Collingwood picked up the Adelaide recruiter to replace him (the one that got done for saying racist remarks during the season but didn't mean it).

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,602]

As others have said - my understanding was that Viney is filling in for a bloke from Collingwood whose coming - and there is a team including Kelly O'something.

[PaulRB 6,411]

I've heard that we did get Mark Neeld's astrological chart done, prior to appointing him.

It revealed that 2014 looks very auspicious, hence the three year deal.

And you say the MFC board didn't do their due diligence.

Shame on you.

Edited September 10, 2012 by PaulRB

[Theo 275]

As others have said - my understanding was that Viney is filling in for a bloke from Collingwood whose coming - and there is a team including Kelly O'something.

Jason Taylor is the guys name. Assistant to the National Head of Recruiting Derek Hine.

Edited September 10, 2012 by Theo

[7-UP 107]

Can Todd Viney be the dees midfield coach next season ?

[Redleg 41,421]

Can Todd Viney be the dees midfield coach next season ?

He could. But would you want him coaching his son?

Edited September 10, 2012 by Redleg

[rpfc 28,765]

Can Todd Viney be the dees midfield coach next season ?

He won't be, but that hasn't stopped Demonland before...

Continue.