SLEEPERS

[Grapeviney 9,699]

Just about every game in Melboune this week had a pitch invasion except for our game today.

given the skill level, spectators were running away from the ground today RD , not towards it

[Macca 16,900]

Is a coach immune from discussion in his 1st year or until after his 2nd year ? I reckon some think that this is an actual rule . But who made up that rule ?

So 'Maybe' here's the unofficial rule...

"You can praise the Coach when we win , but you shouldn't criticize him if we lose." There seems very little balance IMO .

Maybe it's a human trait that you don't say anything questionable about the 'Leader' . In certain Countries with certain types of 'Governments' this 'Questioning' would be a rather dangerous thing to do ! I wouldn't last long .

It's always healthy to have 2 groups with opposing views on any subject matter (Of course , there's all the others who are somewhere in the middle) . And as long as these views don't resort to insults I don't see the problem .

I'm constantly amazed how some think it's ok to insult or demean a player , yet won't hear of any sort of criticism of the Coach . Makes no sense to me and never has .

As an aside , the call for Ratten's sacking is astonishing . To me , he's a very good coach who for some reason , has a head that many want to kick . And I had that view before Carlton's win on Friday night . He was coaching for his football life and he came through with a big win against the Pies . Sometimes pressure brings out the best in people . And sometimes you need to put pressure on someone to see what a person is made of .

I said it on another thread , and I'll say it again . Losing has become acceptable because of the lure of the 'Prized' draft picks . Unfortunately , when it comes to winning games , not all Melbourne supporters are on the same page . That's not good . Maybe the people who detest losing , and who are also not all that interested in these 'Prized' draft picks , look a bit further than just the player personnel .

Edited July 7, 2012 by Macca

[jimcor 212]

I don't forget who trains them. Sometimes you can't polish a turd.

I have a huge issue with these sorts of unproven claims! I, for one, have never actually seen anyone try to polish a turd. Perhaps with a light touch and a small basting of Nugget, a gloss- up could be achieved.

Anyway, as far as the football was concerned, I thought today's effort was a backward step. I honestly couldn't believe how poor we were. As far as responsibility is concerned, I still think the coaches have to take much of the blame. They, at least, can decide who they think the best players are (fitness& skill-wise) and if someone isn't capable, they can drop them. They can also insist that those with skill deficiencies can be coached and that they practice those skills. Last of all, a lot of their job is about leadership and being able to extract an effort - on & off the field. Today's efforts raised some doubts in my mind.

Far too soon (still) to be demanding heads to roll but we need to see much more improvement from the current squad. Can't wait for the season to end and the new one to start.

[Chook 15,012]

You can't polish a turd, but you can compress it into a diamond.

[Macca 16,900]

You can't polish a turd, but you can compress it into a diamond.

And then there's that saying "Diamonds are a girl's best friend" . Or is that bs now ?

Edited July 7, 2012 by Macca

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

Look, I agree with you, but if you take that hope away from me I've got absolutely nothing.

I do agree and I was venting to a certain extent but I am just sick of looking forward to November by May every single year. Two or three years you can cop but we are into our 6th season of this now and we don't seem to be progressing anywhere it is just depressing. Of course we still haven't seen much from Gysberts or Strauss and hopefully Gawn can get over his injuries - I also think Trengove cannot be as bad as he has been this year again and Tapscott & Blease (assuming we keep him) have shown good signs and will get better.

That is the "glass half full" view and even that isn't that optimistic. But that is where I'm at with the Demons these days, wild swings from being angry & depressed to being optimistic & hopeful and not much in between like some sort of bipolar mental patient.

[Cards13 9,117]

You can't polish a turd, but you can compress it into a diamond.

... Over thousands of years.... My greatest of great great grannie kids will be long gone before the MFC diamond is set

[Chook 15,012]

... Over thousands of years.... My greatest of great great grannie kids will be long gone before the MFC diamond is set

Making a diamond is a question of effort, not time. It can be done in an instant under the right conditions. Of course that also means that under the wrong conditions, no amount of time is sufficient to forge a diamond. Edited July 7, 2012 by Chook

[Bring Back Barassi 552]

Fine tune the team and the tactics as required (the so-called, but wrongly named, game plan). Take it as a given that discipline, fitness, endurance, etc are essential and non-negotiable. However, one key non-negotiable (but often missed in modern football) is skills training – skills training should be the number one priority which should dominate training, assuming the basics as above.

All of the above is part of the coach’s job, and it requires a very skilled and personable communicator. A good assistant coach may be very good at their own specialty, but mostly they won’t be able to do all of the above.

I was having a chat to one of our injured players before the game, and I asked him what the difference was between a Bailey pre-season and a Neeld pre-season. His reply was that Bailey concentrated mostly on ball skills, whereas Neeld was almost purely pre-occupied with fitness.

Well, our ball skills are the worst in the league. Surely its got something to do with that

[The heart beats true 18,090]

Not surprised that another post match discussion has centred so heavily around the coaching/football dept.

Thought it was very interesting that half the coaches in the league voted Sanderson as the coach of the year thus far in this rounds Record. It does beg the question of when you can ask hard questions of the football department. It's 15 rounds in and people keep assuming that they are coaching for the future. Would we make the same concessions for a player? I think Dan Nicholson has played about 15 games and he sure isn't immune to questions about his output.

At some point we are entitled to see a competitive side and I think it's pretty unfair the criticism that's aimed at folks on this site who at least want some accountability. There's a lot of faith placed in the people that put this football department together when I'm not sure what they've done to deserve it. We aren't coming from a strong recent history of success. I think we are at least entitled to ask why we can't compete.

[Choko 493]

This is the biggest snooze fest of all time. Let me summarise the last 3 pages:

- I am a more special poster. No, I am.

- Can we blame Neeld? Should we blame Neeld? Yeh, bugger it, blame everyone.

[Choko 493]

Not surprised that another post match discussion has centred so heavily around the coaching/football dept.

Thought it was very interesting that half the coaches in the league voted Sanderson as the coach of the year thus far in this rounds Record. It does beg the question of when you can ask hard questions of the football department. It's 15 rounds in and people keep assuming that they are coaching for the future. Would we make the same concessions for a player? I think Dan Nicholson has played about 15 games and he sure isn't immune to questions about his output.

At some point we are entitled to see a competitive side and I think it's pretty unfair the criticism that's aimed at folks on this site who at least want some accountability. There's a lot of faith placed in the people that put this football department together when I'm not sure what they've done to deserve it. We aren't coming from a strong recent history of success. I think we are at least entitled to ask why we can't compete.

It's the midfield.

There is nothing else to talk about! The rest is not a massive issue.

Adelaide has one. We don't. Ours is by far and away the worst in the league. We don't have one consistent elite midfielder. We don't have guys that are up to rotating through.

Yes, we need more fitness, some blokes aren't up to it, etc... But it's all about the midfield

[Jerry Lundergard 420]

It's the midfield.

There is nothing else to talk about! The rest is not a massive issue.

Adelaide has one. We don't. Ours is by far and away the worst in the league. We don't have one consistent elite midfielder. We don't have guys that are up to rotating through.

Yes, we need more fitness, some blokes aren't up to it, etc... But it's all about the midfield

Spot on. When we were actually able to win it out of the middle effectively yesterday, we could score. It didn't matter who was in our forward line.

Problem is we rarely win it cleanly out of any stoppages.

Why can other teams handball out of traffic to an unmanned player hanging of the pack and then they are away, yet we can't? It's a question I bring up weekly that I have no anwser to. Some want to blame Royal, but I would prefer to just assume they we have the worst midfield in the league. I believed that before the season started, and I still do now.

[Retrospective 104]

Neeld has not delivered what he promised.... Yet.

Perhaps he will, maybe he won't.

He is not some protected species, any more than the players are. Right now we are terrible and there is very little improvement to be seen.

To say Neeld didn't know the list and infer that he was some how surprised by the talent he had to work with is disingenuous... he was in the industry and coaching against this side, and put himself up for the job...if he didn't understand what he was signing up for he is completely responsible for that.

Between the players and the football department this team has somehow managed to get WORSE this season. Players recruited on the basis of their demonstrated skill and capability suddenly can't play and a coach recruited on the basis of demonstrated ability can't coach.......what does that say? To me it is sign of a deeper failure in the organisation when individuals can't deliver their best.

The answer unfortunately is not a simple as sack the players or sack the coach.

[pitmaster 3,512]

Back on course...those bagging Magner need to back off. I reckon the guy is flattening out after the intensity of an AFL pre-season and season. That goal that was not paid because he blew the kick was the work of a player who is tired tired tired. He should be spelled but he should not appear on anyone's delist suggestions.

Yesterday was appalling as an exhibition of skills but Spencer improved enough over a week to suggest there is something there as well.

Can't say I am looking forward to next week but clearly Neeld is now not coaching to win individual games. He is trying players out and while I'd love to see Jack W up forward and giving us a target he is in defence for the duration for his education.

After bad efforts like yesterday everyone seems to forget what most of us already know, that this is already preseason for 2013.

[MadAsHell 4,212]

So many people on this site reckon the sky is falling!

Was a bad loss, agreed. Disposal was very poor, agreed. Are Melbourne experimenting with plays like Rivers and Garland forward and Dunn in defence? Clearly.

There's several players who clearly aren't up to it, and this last few weeks is clearly about Neeld having a good look at them so he can make a good informed decission about who to keep, who to move on, and what position is best for them to play moving forward.

For me I got a bit out of today. Sylvia I now still have hope for, and reckon Neeld can still mold him into an elite midfielder after building up his fitness base over the first half of this year. Garland I reckon is a forward and that's his spot going forward, with the occasional move down back. Martin can make it, showed a bit in the ruck and up forward, just needs to improve his set shots and awareness. Jones has become a top notch midfielder. Spencer's 2nd efforts are great, but he wont make it in the long run. Bate, Dunn and Bennell are gone at seasons end. And Bail and Nicholson will spend more time at Casey then in Melbourne's 22 next year unless they drastically improve their disposal.

Come on people, I marked this season as a write off after round 2. For the rest of this year I'm just looking forward to the continued improvement of players in the seniors and at Casey, trade week/fortnight and the draft. Lets look forward, not back!

[Range Rover 1,935]

You can't polish a turd, but you can compress it into a diamond.

According to Mythbusters, you can!

[binman 42,497]

you are probaly the most short sighted poster on this site.

tonatopia, you seem to have a real boner for neelds sacking. either a troll and if so you should be banned form the site, or more likely just have no clue about the game of footy and sport in general.

Let the ignore function set you free!

[timD 994]

There are some 800 players on AFL lists. Every club has 40 or so players on its list. Each list has its strengths and weaknesses, and surprisingly, there is not much between the lists in reality. It is up to the coach to get the best out of the list they have and then gradually improve that list. Time for posters to stop attacking the players, as the buck always stops with the leader, in this case the coach, that's what they are paid for!

This is just garbage of the highest order. Bailey and prendergast led us into a canyon of empty despair. Not one player is better for Bailey's "development coaching" and prendergast has failed specacularly to get us a midfield with any reliable talent. To now blame neeld is just breathtakingly obtuse. We have the worst midfield in the AFL. WE had the worst midfield 5 years ago and nothing has changed. Our mids get slaughtered by everyone but you blame the current coach. As if class, and talent doesn't matter. As if age and experience doesn't matter. "All lists are equal". That is an effective summary of your footy acumen in one fell swoop.

Amazing. Just amazing.

[binman 42,497]

Spot on. When we were actually able to win it out of the middle effectively yesterday, we could score. It didn't matter who was in our forward line.

Problem is we rarely win it cleanly out of any stoppages.

Why can other teams handball out of traffic to an unmanned player hanging of the pack and then they are away, yet we can't? It's a question I bring up weekly that I have no anwser to. Some want to blame Royal, but I would prefer to just assume they we have the worst midfield in the league. I believed that before the season started, and I still do now.

I totally agree we have the worst midfield in the league and we are going absoloutely nowhere until it goes up several levels.

Next year our mid field will (hopefully) read: Sylvia, Jones, Viney, Boak, Caddy, Gysberts and top 5 pick from the next draft. Better.

[GRUN DEE 69]

Bloody awful skills & decision making! Should have lost by 90 points.

Umpires dreadful...

We had 22 MORTONS playing today and he wasnt one of them. Shikes!

Edited July 7, 2012 by jungle dee

[binman 42,497]

I was having a chat to one of our injured players before the game, and I asked him what the difference was between a Bailey pre-season and a Neeld pre-season. His reply was that Bailey concentrated mostly on ball skills, whereas Neeld was almost purely pre-occupied with fitness.

Well, our ball skills are the worst in the league. Surely its got something to do with that

Interesting theory - except for one small problem. Under Bailey we were unfit and our skills were woeful

[The heart beats true 18,090]

Come on people, I marked this season as a write off after round 2. For the rest of this year I'm just looking forward to the continued improvement of players in the seniors and at Casey, trade week/fortnight and the draft. Lets look forward, not back!

I agree to an extent. My issue is that I'm not seeing improvement where I'd expect to see it. Sylvia was great yesterday, but he played at the level expected. The improvement that would fill me with more confidence is Trengove, Bail, Blease, Nicholson and Tapscott. A lot of our blokes are going nowhere.

And I stopped believing in the draft being anything for us to get too excited about when I looked back at our recent history. The improvement needs to come 90% from what we have. That's what makes me feel like the sky is falling. We should have been thrashed by a team that's 10th and had 7 changes from the previous week. It's hardly awe inspiring.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

Back on course...those bagging Magner need to back off. I reckon the guy is flattening out after the intensity of an AFL pre-season and season. That goal that was not paid because he blew the kick was the work of a player who is tired tired tired. He should be spelled but he should not appear on anyone's delist suggestions.

Yesterday was appalling as an exhibition of skills but Spencer improved enough over a week to suggest there is something there as well.

Can't say I am looking forward to next week but clearly Neeld is now not coaching to win individual games. He is trying players out and while I'd love to see Jack W up forward and giving us a target he is in defence for the duration for his education.

After bad efforts like yesterday everyone seems to forget what most of us already know, that this is already preseason for 2013.

I understand the sentiment but why should I pay $500+ a year and waste my weekends watching pre-season training. This club needs to start getting real and either play/win each game on its merits or do the right thing and blatantly tank for last so we get picks 1, 2, 12ish & Viney.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,090]

There are some 800 players on AFL lists. Every club has 40 or so players on its list. Each list has its strengths and weaknesses, and surprisingly, there is not much between the lists in reality. It is up to the coach to get the best out of the list they have and then gradually improve that list. Time for posters to stop attacking the players, as the buck always stops with the leader, in this case the coach, that's what they are paid for!

You say there is not much difference with the lists you are kidding yourself. Tell me Melbournes top 6 players and rank them against any other side. Your top 6 is where the game is won and lost and through a combination of poor choices and development we have the worst in the league. The top 6 wont change much dependant on gamestyle but I agree it affects the remainder of your side and what you can do with them.

The coaches job is to get this list the best shot for a premiership. The progression of this list and the previous strategy was not going to deliver it. The coach is looking at instilling a game plan he believes in which is more important than progressing one he doesn't. He is testing the list against this and giving players he has doubts over every opportunity to show value in new roles. I will judge him on once he turns the list next year and the game plan he instills in season 2 and there going forward.