Is being a solid defender enough?

[Triple Jack 13]

I think Bartram's last year and a half has been great and his ability to negate opposition small forwards has been top class. BUT their is still a big question mark over his football skills, most notably his kicking. With the forward press and other similar strategies in the game, kicking accuracy and to a lesser extent kicking distance are very important, and this is even more true in defense.

I ask this question now, because of the emergence of a young forward/midfielder who has been moved down back. That is ofcourse Tapscott, who had a wonderful debut game last weekend. While his defensive know how may not be to the level of Bartram, his attack on the ball, courage and physicallity is. And as we all know his kicking ability is far superior, being labelled elite by some after just one game.

So with the emergence of Tapscott down back and with the likes of Scully, Morton, and McKenzie coming back from injury, and the likes of Gysberts, Wona, and others pushing for selection, Is Bartram's superior defensive skill enough to keep him in the side?

[Radar Detector 1,347]

Absolutely. There will always be a spot for a quick, reliable small defender. In terms of a negating role, he is the best of his type that we have and that is his key responsibility. Hope he gives it to Cyril on Sunday.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Bartram has a unique blend of strength, speed and reasonable stamina. This gives him the ability to take on jobs against class players. Unfortunately he doesn't possess the skill of a Trengove otherwise he would be a great player.

He has learnt to work within his limitations and give good value to the side.

[Robbie57 2,026]

Yep, team balance is important.

[Deeoldfart 8,109]

I think Barty's pace and tackling pressure will keep him in the lineup for a while. His pace and endurance are needed to match it with small agile forwards. Also, I think that for the time being at least, Tappy's kicking skills are more valuable up the ground.

[Rogue 585]

It's enough for now.

In an ideal world you'd have a guy with the skills he possesses and some excellent offensive skill, but you don't need an ideal team to win a premiership.

[Triple Jack 13]

In a lot of ways i agree with the above statements but i also feel that Bail can play a similar role and that with a full squad available they might be fighting it for a spot in the 22. I think at the minute Bartram is ahead, but i rate Bail pretty highly and feel by the end of the year they could be neck and neck

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Love Clint. Embarrassed myself in South Yarra the other day saying hi...

I think he's a really important player. Not everyone in the list can be first round picks. If we can JUST work out a way to iron out the delivery then we will have a big headache on the list for opposition coaches. I look at Stevey Baker and think he could be similar, if a little more blue collar.

I reckon players like Tappy, and if we can get him harder, Strauss and maybe even Blease could help a lot. One of the reasons his delivery hurts so much is cos there's no-one else to take the kicks. Grimes, Frawley, Rivers and Bartram.... too many players that don't really EVER hurt the opposition on the rebound. Our best footy last year was when Davey was rebounding... In fact, when he was doing that role, we were as good as ANYONE. Including the Pies.

[deeflog 679]

Every opposition has a small, quick crumbing goal sneak. Bartram is the best match up for these types. He has the discipline, speed and endurance to go with them and is a must in our side.

His defensive side of his game far out plays his offensive side, and that is not a bad thing

[Guest Thomo]

Love Clint. Embarrassed myself in South Yarra the other day saying hi...

I think he's a really important player. Not everyone in the list can be first round picks. If we can JUST work out a way to iron out the delivery then we will have a big headache on the list for opposition coaches. I look at Stevey Baker and think he could be similar, if a little more blue collar.

I reckon players like Tappy, and if we can get him harder, Strauss and maybe even Blease could help a lot. One of the reasons his delivery hurts so much is cos there's no-one else to take the kicks. Grimes, Frawley, Rivers and Bartram.... too many players that don't really EVER hurt the opposition on the rebound. Our best footy last year was when Davey was rebounding... In fact, when he was doing that role, we were as good as ANYONE. Including the Pies.

Good point.

I think it is enough to be a solid defender, but not enough to have three in the one team. I would rather replace Rivers or MacDonald with someone with better footskills than Bartram.

[btdemon 482]

He is also courageous and relentless. Forwards would hate playing on him.

[Chook 15,023]

Pretty sure Frawley's got some rebound skill. Grimes, although his kicking can be bad, switches the play so often that it works at least sometimes.

[Nasher 33,617]

Pretty sure Frawley's got some rebound skill.

Agree - a big part of the reason Frawley was so damaging last year was that he hurts teams going the other way. He's a weapon offensively and defensively.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Barty is great and if we could transplant in Strauss kicking then he'd be perfect.

But....

All the true top teams have stoppers who also damage you:

Shaw for Collingwood

Hunt for Geelong

Guerra for Hawthorn

To become a great team we need that and it will come one of two ways. Either Barty improves his kicking greatly or someone else overtakes him.

I believe Bail is the perfect fit because he is fast, strong, has reasonable endurance (and that is one thing that can be improved easily), is a great tackler and has good defensive mindset but can be damaging with the ball.

As the team pushes higher up the ladder and competition for spots gets greater I really see Bail taking over that role. I reckon Barty has the job for 1-2 more years and will then struggle to keep Bail out of that role.

[Roost It 1,434]

Let's hold judgement until after he picks up Rioli on Sunday!

[Mad_Melbourne 877]

to be honest somewhat ridiculous to suggest no room for our best small defender in the side. mckenzie, scully, wona, morton all who you mentioned do not play his role.

i am a big fan of bartram despite his poor disposal, even still i think his disposal has improved, and although it is still not his weapon, his strength for his size, speed and endurance are all weapons.

if he wasnt playing this week who would you put on cyril?

[Adzman 2,154]

Bartram = Good

[Deeman-86 0]

Hey all, first post on here been a bigfooty for a few years and thought i add my 2 cents on here!

Bartram is my favourite player, i love the way he goes about it he rarely gets beaten as last year he had only around 20 goals kicked against him last year. I see him apart of our side for a while yet as he is a good foil for our attacking youngsters. He has proven he can defend, id like to see him start winning more of the footy this year and his skills are improving.

I saw him and a few of the other players a couple weeks ago at the precinct hotel, had a chat to hime for 5 minutes to express my man love! He is a real good bloke to!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Good point.

I think it is enough to be a solid defender, but not enough to have three in the one team. I would rather replace Rivers or MacDonald with someone with better footskills than Bartram.

Yep... I think that's why players like Warnock, Rivers and McDonald are kept around. Good rebounding defenders who go well the other way aren't that easy to find, and to keep, especially the ones who can deliver well... We have tried so many, like Bennell, Jetta, and more recently Strauss... Sometimes they're moved up the ground, sometimes their dropped or delisted... We just haven't found a stay at home one.

Pretty sure Frawley's got some rebound skill. Grimes, although his kicking can be bad, switches the play so often that it works at least sometimes.

Yeah, Frawley's the least weak. As Jackattack says, it's the fact he runs so hard, makes space, relieves the pressure on his kick, and the fact that often he's 1 on 1 and wins convincingly enough to get space on his opponent and catch the opposition napping that makes his kicks (which aren't Hodge like, let's admit it) more damaging than you'd expect. Not only that but he's a sensational decision maker. Having said all that, I still think that opposition defensive forwards would see him as the guy to curtail, and that they wouldn't be TERRIFIED of his rebound. His great strength is 1 on 1... his rebounding is good too, and enough to elevate him to elite status coupled with his defensive work... but I wouldn't call his rebounding elite.

Grimesey, yeah, enough has been said. We love him. His defensive work and reading of the incoming ball is up there with Rivers. But again, opposition sides would be pushing into attack confidently when the ball's in his hands... I mean. If you see the ball in Davey's hands, you panic and bail into defensive fifty. If you see it in Grimes' hands, you have half a mind to keep yourself thinking of going forward cos there's a better chance the ball will end up there. Like I say if Blease can get his pace and kick back, and Strauss can improve his toughness... then that would be enough I reckon, and Bartram could change his game to involve shutting down his opponent and handing it off to a running Blease or Strauss. The question is, who goes out?

[jayceebee31 768]

Barty is a dead set goer- Bailey must luv him. Becoming Mr Reliable.

[samd 0]

Barty is a dead set goer- Bailey must luv him. Becoming Mr Reliable.

I agree, he is a solid defender who usually beats his opponent on the day.. There is no reason for him not to be in the side, as he is does his job week in week out..

[Geddy Lee 582]

Sign of a good negating defender is one you don't notice. We don't notice him because he's destroying his opponent.

Clint has been a good negating small defender for the last 18 months and I want him in the side.

[old55 23,836]

It's going to take a very good player to displace him.

[DemonWA 3,940]

He playes his role very well. I cant see him being pushed out in the next few years and he'll probably get better with time too

I'd prefer reliable backmen than flashy ones who try to be too fancy in our defensive 50

[GOLF 13]

Lots of love for Bartram on this thread.

Take a moment and re-read the TS Injury thread, and them remember Bartram's second year at the dees.