Daniel Bell - mild brain damage

[rpfc 28,441]

Jeez, I don't agree with that sentiment...

Especially the attempt to guilt trip Daniel with mention of Jimmy's non-footy related cancer battle...

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

It's very obvious that "Ange" has never played a contact sport and been repeatedly Crunched.

I am very glad i do not see the world through those eyes.

[Nasher 33,616]

Youch. Contact sport or not - I'd say suffering confusion to the point of having forgotten your instructions from three minutes ago and not being sure why you're standing where you are is _slightly_ above the reasonable level of physical duress one should expect.

[Jaded No More 68,922]

Jeez, I don't agree with that sentiment...

Especially the attempt to guilt trip Daniel with mention of Jimmy's non-footy related cancer battle...

Agreed.

Bell's ability to work and earn a living is no doubt now diminished due to the injuries he received while at Melbourne. We were his work place and he is therefore no less entitled to compensation than any other person injured on the job.

He does not come across to me as greedy at all. But everyone is entitled to have their view on this issue.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

A mate's wife wrote this. Just another point of view:

"Dear Sam,

I was flabbergasted by your article in The Age this morning. It is compensation claims such as this that are destroying not only our beloved game of football but society as a whole. I appreciate that you stuck to telling the facts of the story in your article, but such hypocrisy should be met with disdain, not compassion.

Was Mr Bell aware that AFL Rules is a contact sport? And if he is so concerned about putting his beloved Dees back into debt, how could he consider putting in such a claim, regardless of whether the club or their insurer have to make the inevitable compensation payment? In your article Mr Bell admits that the only mismanagement was from his own will to play. End of story in my opinion. Too often people these days want to blame everyone else for their misfortune and, while I am sorry for his diminished mental capacity, it is unjust, selfish and greedy to seek financial gain because of it. It stinks of a man who is bitter about the unfortunate end to a physically traumatic career and I feel for the Melbourne Football Club Management for the PR nightmare they are now facing.

Daniel needs to have a good hard look at one of Australia's finest individual's, Jim Stynes, who continues to battle through each and every day and finds the courage to help others in need rather than wallow in his misfortune.

Kind regards,

Ange"

From a well being standpoint, I wish him well in his recover.

Ange sounds like a charmer

[e25 5]

Ange sounds bitter about something and is misdirecting it towards Daniel Bell...

I almost feel as sorry for her as I do him.

Edited March 31, 2011 by e25

[Geddy Lee 582]

I don't think Daniel Bell will be successful.

Just imagine what Bowen Lockwood could do if the precedent was set.

[Rogue 585]

To those talking about the sorts of precedent an approved claim might set, and how much others might be entitled to should the claim be approved, the rules are clear on the scope of any entitlement. 'Hazyshade...' has pasted the rules in an earlier post in this thread; in short, 50% of the base pay of your final contract if the injury occurs in the final year of your contract and is likely to prevent you playing football again.

As for Ange's letter, I think the less I comment on that the better.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Good Luck Belly, I hope you have a strong recovery.

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

"Too often people these days want to blame everyone else for their misfortune and, while I am sorry for his diminished mental capacity, it is unjust, selfish and greedy to seek financial gain because of it. It stinks of a man who is bitter about the unfortunate end to a physically traumatic career and I feel for the Melbourne Football Club Management for the PR nightmare they are now facing.

Kind regards,

Ange"

From a well being standpoint, I wish him well in his recover.

A maximum payout of 100,000 and this idiot Ange thinks he'd be greedy to seek financial gain. Someone needs to let Ange know we're not talking about a bit of a sore knee here. How would you like to be having early signs of dementia in your mid 20's?

Belly would be stupid not to seek some assistance in maintaining his health, even if that is to the detriment of the club. I think these claims should be the AFL's responsibility if (as in this case) the medical staff have done nothing wrong, but even still if the club tried to dodge this in any way I'd be ashamed. What kind of club are we if we don't look after those who represented us???

[Barry 0]

I reckon you guys are missing Ange's point.

Bell's injury is unfortunate and sad - no one would question that and I'm sure everyone would wish him the best in his recovery.

Bell's choice to continue to play dispite 15 concussions was his choice (before he was drafted by the Dees!!!), not the clubs.

Bell's choice to continue to play without a helmet was his choice, not the clubs.

Cases like this will force the AFL to (continue) to soften the rules to protect themselves, as an organization, against these sort of claims.... That's not ok. Players make a choice to play weighing the risks to their health against the benefits of the opportunity.

Baz

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Very sorry to hear that from Daniel Bell. I liked him as a player for his intensity.

INteresting though reading the article:

"Bell estimates that he was concussed 15 times before he was drafted by Melbourne in 2002, and that only half of those bouts were through playing football. He wore a helmet as a teenage footballer but discarded it by the time he was 14.

Bell estimates he was diagnosed with concussion between eight and 10 times during his time at Melbourne but the two concussions he experienced in 2009 and 2010 were the most damaging."

The awareness he lacked as a senior player was evident in his younger years. What do clubs do? Do you not recruit players who have a propensity to get hit like a Joel Selwood??

Woooooow....

Tht's amazing. And if true, explains so much. Always loved Belly, and I'm proud to have stuck up for him while he was at the club.

I guess there's such a thing as being TOO courageous.

[45HG 1,539]

Horrible, horrible news. I hope we go over and above what we need to do (base requirements) to look after him and see him back to health.

He's a lovely guy who has been through a hell of a lot, gave his all for the club and we should always looks after our own.

[demoniac 1,333]

A mate's wife wrote this. Just another point of view:

"Dear Sam,

I was flabbergasted by your article in The Age this morning. It is compensation claims such as this that are destroying not only our beloved game of football but society as a whole. I appreciate that you stuck to telling the facts of the story in your article, but such hypocrisy should be met with disdain, not compassion.

Was Mr Bell aware that AFL Rules is a contact sport? And if he is so concerned about putting his beloved Dees back into debt, how could he consider putting in such a claim, regardless of whether the club or their insurer have to make the inevitable compensation payment? In your article Mr Bell admits that the only mismanagement was from his own will to play. End of story in my opinion. Too often people these days want to blame everyone else for their misfortune and, while I am sorry for his diminished mental capacity, it is unjust, selfish and greedy to seek financial gain because of it. It stinks of a man who is bitter about the unfortunate end to a physically traumatic career and I feel for the Melbourne Football Club Management for the PR nightmare they are now facing.

Daniel needs to have a good hard look at one of Australia's finest individual's, Jim Stynes, who continues to battle through each and every day and finds the courage to help others in need rather than wallow in his misfortune.

Kind regards,

Ange"

From a well being standpoint, I wish him well in his recover.

No offence Finks but the sentiments expressed by Ange about a former Melbourne Football club player who is suffering brain damage at least partially caused by concussion suffered whilst playing for our club are among the most disappointing I have ever read on Demonland.

Tom Potter

[demoniac 1,333]

I reckon you guys are missing Ange's point.

Bell's injury is unfortunate and sad - no one would question that and I'm sure everyone would wish him the best in his recovery.

Bell's choice to continue to play dispite 15 concussions was his choice (before he was drafted by the Dees!!!), not the clubs.

Bell's choice to continue to play without a helmet was his choice, not the clubs.

Cases like this will force the AFL to (continue) to soften the rules to protect themselves, as an organization, against these sort of claims.... That's not ok. Players make a choice to play weighing the risks to their health against the benefits of the opportunity.

Baz

As coaching panels and fans we demand players put their head over the ball and risk concussion. In many ways concussion and the long term risks have long been the dirty little secret of body contact sports. The research in the NFL on the brains of dead NFL players is pretty disturbing reading so the secret is out and there is no way that fact can be changed.

[dee-eee 231]

I feel even sorrier for Ange. He needs an empathy transplant !

[titan_uranus 25,020]

It is "compensation" of a sort - but he is only asking for what he is entitled to under his workplace agreement, he is not "suing" the club. It is the akin to you asking to take paid sick leave after suffering an injury. This isn't a matter of doing the right thing by Bell, it is a matter of honouring the legally binding terms of the collective bargaining agreement.

AUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUEandAUSTRALIAN FOOTBALL LEAGUE PLAYERS’ ASSOCIATIONINCORPORATEDCOLLECTIVEBARGAINING AGREEMENT2007 - 2011

Schedule B, Clause 11:

11. Injury Payments

11.1 (a) Where a Player:

(i) suffers a Final Year Injury; and

(ii) makes an application to the AFL for compensation in accordance

with this sub-paragraph,

the AFL Club shall pay that Player 50% of the Player’s contract base

payment as at the last year of the Contract.

( B ) In this Agreement:

“Final Year Injury”:

(i) means injury which:

( A ) occurs in the last year of a Player’s contract with an AFL Club;

( B ) occurs in the course of the Player’s employment as an AFL

footballer, including travelling to and from training, Matches or

other activities authorised by the AFL Club; and

( C ) in the opinion of an independent medical practitioner, will

prevent or be likely to prevent the Player from ever playing

football at senior level in any competition;

(ii) does not include an injury which:

( A ) is caused or contributed to by the Player’s own negligence; or

( B ) in the opinion of an independent medical practitioner, is part

of and principally caused by a Pre-existing Condition or

Injury or a de-generation of a Pre-existing Condition or

Injury.

OK, thanks fort that. Clearly the club has a contractual obligation to pay that money. The claim is clearly not a negligence one, rather, it is a clause designed to ensure that players who receive injuries in their final year of contract have something to fall back on given the injuries could affect their future employment.

...I might add that you would have to be incredibly harsh to make out that Bell's total on-field commitment amounts to "negligence"!

Who said that? The potential issue here is not negligence on Bell's behalf, but on the MFC's.

Youch. Contact sport or not - I'd say suffering confusion to the point of having forgotten your instructions from three minutes ago and not being sure why you're standing where you are is _slightly_ above the reasonable level of physical duress one should expect.

Disagree. The injuries Bell sustained were, IMO, nothing more than could be reasonably expected of anyone who plays AFL. It is a contact sport in which players are not required to wear helmets, and head-high contact is made every week. Having some sort of impairment as a result of concussion-related injuries is, to me, something that any football player could imagine happening to them before they commence their career.

[Nasher 33,616]

Disagree. The injuries Bell sustained were, IMO, nothing more than could be reasonably expected of anyone who plays AFL. It is a contact sport in which players are not required to wear helmets, and head-high contact is made every week. Having some sort of impairment as a result of concussion-related injuries is, to me, something that any football player could imagine happening to them before they commence their career.

How many people do you know who play or have played football? How many of them complain of loss of brain function to the point where they lose their train of thought mid-sentence as mentioned in this article? My answer to these questions would be "lots" and "none". Of course they can imagine it, but I think there's a difference between plausible and reasonable to expect. Broken bones, torn muscles, strain injuries etc I'd say are reasonable injuries to expect for footballers - permanent brain damage I'd say is not.

[rpfc 28,441]

Having some sort of impairment as a result of concussion-related injuries is, to me, something that any football player could imagine happening to them before they commence their career.

That's why they have the compo clauses in the CBA...

[Guest Gotzy15]

yeah belly was a champ. Perhaps lacked ability but made up for it with his courage and determination. It seems that he almost risked his life to go out and play for our footy club and whether as a dees supporter you loved him or maligned him we must take our hats off to him and wish him all the best for the future and hope he leads a happy and successful life. Ben Johnson is like all collingwood players and supporters- absolute scum and i hope he gets a dose of his own medicine.For a sniper like him what goes around comes around.

[deanox 9,927]

I feel greatly for Bell. I loved to watch him with his pace and his attack on the footy. His tackling was great. I really thought he'd make it, especially early on at his career when he was running around at Sandy as one of the four horsemen! I truly wish him the best of luck with his recovery, and I am proud of both him and the club for the way they are handling this (with the brain training etc).

He is entitled to the 50% of his last payment, same as Bolton(?) from the swans will be after he had a career ending ankle injury earlier this year. This is more significant because it was a concussion. I hope the AFL also continues to support him with medical bills etc as required. I would like to see 5% of player payments directed into a 'medical fund' that will cover all football related medical expenses for ex AFL players, because I hate hearing of players who carry injuries around with them the rest of their lives.

I am glad, however, that he took responsibility and said that the club didn't mis-manage him. He kept playing, despite multiple concussions, because he wanted to. I am surprised that with over 20 concussions to his name he was allowed to keep playing. Wasn't Justin Langer told he could no longer field at silly positions due to the number of concussions he had faced? If I had been concussed 20 times at my local football club I think they would be asking questions about the continuance of my career. Did we not ask, or was the medical standard opinion that he would be ok?

The most interesting thing in this article is that he states he had passed all the tests to clear himself of damage each time, this justifies the new rule to not allow concussed players back on the field.

I suppose he played in a strange era of AFL - previously KO'd players left the field and probably didn't play the next week. Post his career we have got stricter again, but he played in the era where concussion was deemed to be manageable.

This is a massive concern to all players at all levels, however, I really feel that all players know that this is a risk every time they walk out on the field. As is the risk of a broken neck when they take a screamer, or a knee injury when they change direction. But I bet the risks of a broken neck or debilitating brain damage are lower than many other activities in our daily lives, not the least being drinking alcohol etc.

I don't think the game should change at all due to the risk of injury, but lal players at all level should acknowledge the risk, and acknowledge that they choose to play regardless of the risk. It is after all, first and foremost a sport and a past time, even if these players choose to do it professionally. They choose to play AFL, when they could choose to coach it, or to sit in an office etc, if they are not happy with the risks.

Best of luck to Belly and his family. Hopefully you'll stay around the club for a long time to come.

[rpfc 28,441]

I'm a tad uncomfortable with this - they chose their workplace (and the associated risks) argument.

Playing football for a living shouldn't mean that you cannot seek compensation if your brain is so battered you are showing the effects of Alzheimers before your 30...

And besides - it's in the CBA.

Case closed, he should get compensation.

But I would prefer the Dees just agree to pay for ongoing health checks and remedies relating to his brain in perpetuity.

[Choko 493]

I'm a tad uncomfortable with this - they chose their workplace (and the associated risks) argument.

Playing football for a living shouldn't mean that you cannot seek compensation if your brain is so battered you are showing the effects of Alzheimers before your 30...

And besides - it's in the CBA.

Case closed, he should get compensation.

But I would prefer the Dees just agree to pay for ongoing health checks and remedies relating to his brain in perpetuity.

I think Daniel Bell's courage on the field is being matched by his courage off the field is going public with this issue at this time.

There is a lot of money floating around in footy, and for a past player with serious health issues to access a CBA entitlement sits perfectly well with me. In this case, Bell is working collaboratively with the club, our doctors and even brain trainers associated with the club.

The competitive nature of AFL clubs and the system itself actually culturally promote downplaying injury, so it's not as simple as saying Bell "chose" to put himself in danger. Miners "choose" to work in an environment where they can be buried to death underground, but they don't actually expect that to happen, and they/their families deserve some assistance if/when such events occur. Bartenders "choose" to work in bars, but if the noise makes them partially deaf, they also have a right to compensation.

I think this Ange has a bit of time on his/her hands now that s/he has finished defending BATAS!

As an aside, Belly is a really decent and nice bloke who really deserved more from his footy career. I wish him all the best in his retirement.

[Cards13 9,117]

Shaun Rhen sued the AFL, but that was from slipping on a cap embedded in the turf for umpires to bounce the ball on.

The Carlton player..? Sort of rings a bell, but can't remember who it would have been.

Cain Ackland?

Adrian Whitehead maybe. I used to work with him at the Rose Hotel in Richmond. He fractured his foot and came back to early and fractured it again if I recall.

[Cards13 9,117]

Me too, Cards. I've tried to comment on that several times and have been unable to find the words. I find the thought of that extremely distressing.

Maybe I am being naive but for me it raises the point of us as fans and how we direct comment towards players as a whole too.

I think a lot of people, myself included, need to take massive step back when discussing players, there ability and how they generally go about this. We have very little idea of the internal machinations of the club and players as individuals. This like this we are not aware of and the effect it has on a player.

As to the Bell comment from Ange, I do not agree. The player in his chosen field of employment was injured while working for MFC. He should be covered by the employer for any injuries sustained whilst working for them I would have thought, especially if it concerns future long term damage to the person effecting his future employment opportunities and care needed.