Training - Thursday 5th January, 2017

[monoccular 16,129]

22 minutes ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

I think the "two way running" pills helped him out. 

 

21 minutes ago, Stinga2 said:

So did the thought of getting caught...

That started him on the freeway running. 

[rjay 23,925]

26 minutes ago, stuie said:

They still do it.

How do you know it hasn't helped them at all? They did it all through the years of premiership success, what facts do you have to show it hasn't helped them?

 

Read my previous posts...

I have as many facts to back up my opinion as you do to back yours...

That's why it's called an opinion & not a fact.

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, rjay said:

Read my previous posts...

I have as many facts to back up my opinion as you do to back yours...

That's why it's called an opinion & not a fact.

Fact is they were doing Kokoda while winning premierships. So factually speaking, it clearly didn't hurt them.

 

[rjay 23,925]

2 minutes ago, stuie said:

Fact is they were doing Kokoda while winning premierships. So factually speaking, it clearly didn't hurt them.

 

Factually speaking you can't prove it helped them either.

They might just have had a better team...

[stuie 7,374]

3 minutes ago, rjay said:

Factually speaking you can't prove it helped them either.

They might just have had a better team...

You said "it hasn't helped them".

4 Premierships in 7 years.

Are you saying they would have won all 7 without doing Kokoda?

 

[stuie 7,374]

41 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I think Kokoda would be great for 1st year players (including first year after moving clubs) but christ you wouldn't want to do it yearly!!!

They don't do it yearly.

 

[SaberFang 7,141]

13 minutes ago, stuie said:

Are you saying they would have won all 7 without doing Kokoda?

Would they have won all 7 if they did it twice annually?

[stuie 7,374]

Just now, SaberFang said:

Would they have won all 7 if they did it twice annually?

Oh yay, sarcasm.

Why not ask Jordan Lewis what he thinks of it:

"It's a really important part of the culture of our club,"

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2016-09-21/hawthorn-return-to-kokoda

 

Or maybe James Sicily:

“When you’re in running sets and times are tough and you’re struggling a bit, you try and reflect on how tough it was back in Kokoda and you can find a bit extra in yourself.

“[The trek] definitely helps with your mental toughness and your ability to keep grinding when things are challenging.”

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2016-12-16/preseason-camp-vs-kokoda

 

Nah, but you guys are right, it's totally useless and the 4 time premiership winners were wasting their time doing it.

 

[rjay 23,925]

15 minutes ago, stuie said:

You said "it hasn't helped them".

4 Premierships in 7 years.

Are you saying they would have won all 7 without doing Kokoda?

 

Mmmm....I think I will leave it there 'stuie'.

[Ethan Tremblay 28,427]

Thanks for the training reports WW and the other posters who contributed. Others have said it before but residing interstate we get absolutely so news about the MFC (or any other eastern states based teams), and if it weren't for your contributions we'd have no idea how the team was going. Unfortunately some do spoil the threads with their petty bickering but I've decided not to reply or get involved. Schoolyard bullies love the response they get from their victims. I'd ask other posters to treat them as such and not reply, eventually they will move on. Thanks again for the training reports, brilliant. 

[Ted Lasso 16,825]

I think it's really hard to judge the value of a particular style of training with a general view, it might help some players, it might do nothing for others, the same way some coaches work for individual players more than others. 

I do believe these commando type training programs are aimed more at mental strength than physical when you reach elite level sport/fitness. 

I think we have a really young team that is going to get better with time and hard work under what is a really strong football department these days, and I am happy to back them in to get it right

[jackaub 1,402]

Any training that improves mental toughness is ok by me. For years we have had a side that folded like deck chairs on a windy day when the pressure was on. If this improves them and their teamwork then it is, in my opinion, a worthwhile exercise and injuries can happen anywhere any time (See basketball at Home) so not an issue!

[Deeoldfart 7,770]

8 hours ago, stuie said:

Oh yay, sarcasm.

Why not ask Jordan Lewis what he thinks of it:

"It's a really important part of the culture of our club,"

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2016-09-21/hawthorn-return-to-kokoda

Interesting.  I have no opinion either way about the value of commando type training, but I did hear around the traps at Gosh's yesterday, that Jordan Lewis thought that Melbourne's recent camp was the toughest footy thing he'd ever done.

[binman 38,462]

8 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Thanks for the training reports WW and the other posters who contributed. Others have said it before but residing interstate we get absolutely so news about the MFC (or any other eastern states based teams), and if it weren't for your contributions we'd have no idea how the team was going. Unfortunately some do spoil the threads with their petty bickering but I've decided not to reply or get involved. Schoolyard bullies love the response they get from their victims. I'd ask other posters to treat them as such and not reply, eventually they will move on. Thanks again for the training reports, brilliant. 

Good call Ethan. I have been enjoying the outbreak of civility on DL of late.

That said i got a wry chuckle from the fact Stuie liked your post

 

[DubDee 20,753]

Jonesy was reportedly happy to have "such a nice 2 hour sleep" on the camp as he's been getting bugger all with two kids under 2

[The Chazz 4,077]

4 hours ago, Deeoldfart said:

Interesting.  I have no opinion either way about the value of commando type training, but I did hear around the traps at Gosh's yesterday, that Jordan Lewis thought that Melbourne's recent camp was the toughest footy thing he'd ever done.

I have no opinion either way either, Dee, but "toughest footy thing he has ever done" can be a long way from "most beneficial footy thing he has ever done".

[hemingway 7,597]

Just now, billy2803 said:

I have no opinion either way either, Dee, but "toughest footy thing he has ever done" can be a long way from "most beneficial footy thing he has ever done".

Agree with this insight. For those folk who want to be elite athletes, then quality always comes before quantity. In distance running; high training loads (high kilometres) does not equate to extra speed. Speed does not come from strength although many believe this to be the case. Quality training specific to the event or sport is the key. Otherwise you would have Usain Bolt running 200k a week.

[McQueen 17,864]

15 hours ago, stuie said:

Oh yay, sarcasm.

Why not ask Jordan Lewis what he thinks of it:

"It's a really important part of the culture of our club,"

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2016-09-21/hawthorn-return-to-kokoda

 

Or maybe James Sicily:

“When you’re in running sets and times are tough and you’re struggling a bit, you try and reflect on how tough it was back in Kokoda and you can find a bit extra in yourself.

“[The trek] definitely helps with your mental toughness and your ability to keep grinding when things are challenging.”

http://www.hawthornfc.com.au/news/2016-12-16/preseason-camp-vs-kokoda

 

Nah, but you guys are right, it's totally useless and the 4 time premiership winners were wasting their time doing it.

 

Love your work, Stu.

[stuie 7,374]

16 minutes ago, McQueen said:

Love your work, Stu.

I'm glad you picked up on my ironic humour "McQueen", it went over the heads of most I think.

 

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

19 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Did one couple of years ago pre season when i was up playing SANFL. We did a whole weekend and i swear i only got about 2.5 hour sleep.

It was the biggest waste of time of my life. Majority of my teammates all agreed that it had nothing to do with footy at all and did not benefit them come game day one bit. This was discussed on an end of season break up. One guy put a disk out of his back from these big barrels we had to pick up and carry up hill. Begged the SAS captain to stop due to the sharp pain that was jolting down his back only to cop an absolute spray. End result he missed 6 months of footy and potentially getting drafted... [censored] idiots. I don't give 2 shits if its supposed to to test your mental side but FFS we are playing footy not diving into the middle of Syria with a back pack full of artillery weapons.

 

Whilst I don't dispute what you are saying here, I trust Goodwin and Macca to get this stuff right.

They have proven themselves to be great developers of younger players and, more relevantly, of a good club culture. If they think this is important for this group, I expect it is.

I get your point though.

 

[Satyriconhome 9,983]

27 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Whilst I don't dispute what you are saying here, I trust Goodwin and Macca to get this stuff right.

They have proven themselves to be great developers of younger players and, more relevantly, of a good club culture. If they think this is important for this group, I expect it is.

I get your point though.

 

Ron, this is the point I was trying to make as well, obviously we have had some who have experienced this type of exercise and found it wanting, not me personally, helped me develop the mindset that keeps me exercising and being fit in my sixties whilst my body tells me to stop coz it hurts

But with Goody and Macca leading the way and supporters actually seeing the results of their approach already, then if they decided this exercise was a valid learning for the players, then it should be accepted as such, same as the non preferred being practiced ad infinitum, on that, the last session was a joy to watch with all players looking much more comfortable on both feet

Edited January 6, 2017 by Satyriconhome

[dazzledavey36 48,867]

3 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Whilst I don't dispute what you are saying here, I trust Goodwin and Macca to get this stuff right.

They have proven themselves to be great developers of younger players and, more relevantly, of a good club culture. If they think this is important for this group, I expect it is.

I get your point though.

 

I trust Goody and Macca aswell. If it works for the players on game day then fantastic.

It might work for others it might not. Just from a personal experience it did bugger all except put a poor bloke out for 6 months with a crook back.

Speaking of trying new things anyone notice no AFL club does the high altitude training anymore? For a while there it was the flavour of the month and majority of clubs were jetting off to the US on hikes. All stopped now.

[rjay 23,925]

4 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

Ron, this is the point I was trying to make as well, obviously we have had some who have experienced this type of exercise and found it wanting, not me personally, helped me develop the mindset that keeps me exercising and being fit in my sixties whilst my body tells me to stop coz it hurts

But with Goody and Macca leading the way and supporters actually seeing the results of their approach already, then if they decided this exercise was a valid learning for the players, then it should be accepted as such, same as the non preferred being practiced ad infinitum, on that, the last session was a joy to watch with all players looking much more comfortable on both feet

Sorry, don't agree.

I'm happy with the way the club has been moving under PJ/Roos & it appears to be heading in the right direction with the transition.

It doesn't mean we just accept everything though.

I think some of the personal experiences shared by others are interesting, including your own.

...but again remember your experience was over 15 years not a couple of days...I think at best the experience for the players will just be a bit of a change from the norm, doing something a bit different. 

[Gator 16,893]

In my view this camp was as beneficial to the new coaching group as it potentially was for the players.

What better way to understand the strengths and weaknesses of your group than putting them under extreme pressure.  I'm sure there was the aspect of new players bonding, but what better environment to fully understand your playing list and the best way to help individuals as you prepare for a new season.

It's the sort of exercise you wouldn't do every year, or often, but there's a whole new dynamic at play with plenty of new coaches, as well as new players.

People seem to only be focussing on what the players will get out of it.  For me it's players learning about themselves, each other, and the coaches, together with the coaches learning about each other, the players and cementing the "why" of this group, which goes hand in hand with their collective goals.

Unless you know the immediate goals of Goodwin/McCartney it's difficult to critique.  You may assume what they're trying to achieve, but you can't be entirely sure. 

[Fork 'em 6,525]

23 hours ago, stuie said:

 

 

Nah, but you guys are right, it's totally useless and the 4 time premiership winners were wasting their time doing it.

 

Remind me again how many premierships Sicily's won.