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Just listened to binman’s second solo pod, and felt compelled to start a separate thread to bring attention to his defence of Simon Goodwin. It’s brilliant stuff, an antidote to the kneejerk, ignorant bagging of his coaching both now and previously, driven of course by the cold hard truth. Not the menace of selective agendas, of cherry-picking outlier stats, events, or subjective interpretations based on reactive disappointment to unreasonable expectations, just plain old common sense and factual clarity. Well done binners, you won’t convince everyone, but of course we know how ‘truth’ works in the modern world.

Luke is a legend of the Footscray Football Club because he's one of only two Bulldogs coaches to ever win a flag and he's also got them to a second GF. But unlike Goody, Luke has never had a side finish top 4 and it speaks to his coaching and his system. Conversely, Goody has had 3 top 4 finishes, one minor premiership, one premiership and another year of making the PF in 2018. I agree with Binners, Goody is a legend of our football club.

Possibly the most underrated premiership coach in history He has done an amazing job keeping the players together and united. We would have lost some of our stars without his compassionate mentoring approach

Our captain would vomit at the thought.

I was 37 when we won the flag. I’m 40 now. Goodwin is the only coach in my lifetime to build a list that won one, and has kept enough talent flowing through that we’re far from being done at having a shot at another one. It’s very plausible that this is the best we’ll be in my lifetime. I’m not going to pot the coach that delivered it.

My biggest criticism of Goody is the fact we haven't won the last 3 premierships despite me clearly telling him at training one time that's what i wanted to have happen.

Ive struggled with our 2021 flag being devalued (even on here by Demons) and we've been painted as having offered a meek defence of it in 2022/2023. Despite starting 2022 like a train, Top 4 both years, and not quite getting over the line in September. Meanwhile Geelong start 2023 0-3 and miss finals and Collingwood 2024 0-3 and will miss finals. Yet they are painted as great Flag winnners and their respective coaches lauded.

I'd be very keen on Houston but, then again, I'm a "glass half full" kind of person. I think Dan's more of a "glass about to be empty" kind of person.

such a suck up

he's the best coach i've ever seen at the dees the best we've had since norm smith

To avoid the derailing of this thread with another 'Loading' debate, how is this for a Run Home: Round 24 - Dees safely in the 8. Pies must win to make finals. They don't ... EF - Beat Ess relegating them yet again to no finals win in a trillion years ... SF - Beat Geelong because we don't like their smugness ... PF - Beat Carlton by < 6pts, on a bad 'touched' goal call ie how they beat us in last 3 games. GF - Dees win vs whoever ... and as a bonus all games are at the G. One can only dream, eh ... Back to reality: Ride the wave of enjoyment the 'Baby Demons' are giving us, then Que Sera Sera !! ps. i've shown admirable restraint not putting a smug 🤣 at the end of each bullet point just in case the footy karma gods come after me and our beloved demons...

Of the 31 MFC coaches, only 5 have premiership besides their name. He is placed 4th with his win/loss record. He is a Melbourne legend.

Spot on, DZ. The mere fact alone that he coached us to a drought-breaking premiership makes him automatically an MFC legend. End of debate.

He has had two topliner defenders; the rest of our great defence was due to a system and the system is entirely down to the coach. How many times have commentators over the last few years referred to how well Melbourne was set up behind the ball? But in terms of personnel: I disagree with you. And Geelong's personnel were probably better overall in defence - and certainly in attack. Most commentators think that Brisbane and WB have had pretty good lists too.

Calling Rayner depth is bold. He hasn’t quite lived up to the hype but he’s definitely more than depth

Whatever people thought at the start of the season I doubt anyone here thought we’d be playing this well without Gawn, Petracca and Brayshaw and having Oliver in limp home mode. Not to mention having TMac playing the way he is as a key defender. Throw in some off season [censored] storms and it’s been a pretty amazing effort and shows some serious resilience has been built into this team. Now just give us some luck with injuries and it’s game on. Time to unleash hell!

Maybe I'm the only one that is happy with this move? Why? There's a genuine NGA prospect for the Dees next years draft by the name of Tarion Ah-Mu from the Dandenong Stringrays who is eligible for next year's draft. He's a 198cm imposing lad who plays as a genuine power forward and can pinch hit in the ruck. He plays with physicality and reminds me a little of Tom Hawkins from the bits of vision I've seen of him. He's played 6 Coates League game and has kicked 12 goals already. He's also dominating school footy all whilst still being an under-age prospect. If he keep his development up, he could easily become a top 20 draft prospect which would mean we would be able to match the bid.

I think he helps us to replace what we lose at half back with Rivers going into the midfield. seems a very sensible target for us.

Oh boy, this thread might trigger some here 😳 😬 🙃

Have to strongly disagree BBP Simon Goodwin, his coaching team and every player that pulled on the Red and Blue in the Premiership win in 2021 after 57 years of pain are Legends of the MFC.

And why is it always assumed that the same thing would've happened at the MCG? Especially the way we played there against GWS, Footscray and Hawthorn. I'd rather celebrate a premiership in the bank no matter where it happened than get upset about hypotheticals.

What a lame-@rse reason. Sure, it was heartbreaking that Victorian fans couldn’t see it live, but to cite that as the reason it’s not as valuable as other premierships is ridiculous at best. It’s selfish too. Our players and coaches had the joy of experiencing a grand final win, I’m so happy for them, despite watching it at home alone like *everyone else in Victoria. *almost everyone.

Shouldn’t this be in the NO T$, NO BS thread?

Thats the media spin at play. But there's also an element that our list was primed to be a dynasty and it fell short given our dominant 2021 finals display - there hasnt been any other like it in recent memory. Everyone could see the holes in Geelong and Collingwood with their age profile so probably dont have the same expectation. Whether the list was truly one worthy of multiple flags is up for debate, many on here think it is/was and that is probably where a lot of the disdain for Goodwin originates from. I think we lack(ed) the list balance (key forwards / outside) and game style (turnover / ball movement elements) to be a dynasty team, but still think we deserved at least another flag.

There’s a lot of players here who aren’t in their side’s best team for a reason; I doubt they’d be in ours either We already have a lot of sloppy seconds who aren’t in our best 26; we don’t need more list cloggers on good coin

An absolute superstar. On his day - and there were a few of them - he was unbeatable. His 1991 season was remarkable. 14 games - played round 1, then round 10, then round 14 through to the semi final. 0 goals in round 1, 1 in round 10, the proceeded to kick 70 goals in 12 games for the remainder of the season. Finished the season with 71.57. It was simply brilliant.

Not much to do on this horrid Melbourne winter day. So put this together for discussion. State of Play Top 4 looks all but set with only Brisbane looking a little vulnerable: Of the remaining 24 games for the Top 4 only one is for 8-pt Of the remaining 24 games for the Top 4 only 4 are vs 5th to 8th teams Carlton and Geelong play 3 of the bottom 4 teams Carlton do not play a Top 8 team Geelong play one Top 8 team Their fixtures and % make them difficult to oust. Better news for Demons is that of the teams outside Top 4 we have a relatively easy draw, well ‘on paper’ Conclusions: Everything needs to go our way to make Top 4 We will make the 8. Hopefully 5th or 6th to get that first Home final. Spots 4-8 will be a bun fight between those currently 4 to 13 14 wins should be enough for Top 8 Given the fixture, finalists should be known after rnd 20 I don't give GCS, Coll or Hawks much chance of making the 8. I don't like Ports/WBD chances of making the 8, given their fixture.

He was the human highlight reel. The man could do anything. I can’t believe his last game for the Dees was 30 years ago. https://apple.news/AMFRfkpQHTYGnj6PH9HMvbg

What has the late great Robert Flower to do with our current position? This article appeared on Facebook today, clearly written by a Dees fan. I have to agree with every word, but the article reminded me of the events of 1987. To round 17 that season, we had won just six games. Six wins, not ten as we have now, yet we didn't just make the finals, we then won six in a row through to round 22, then won two finals by a combined 186 points and very nearly made the Grand Final (which many believe we would have won). So here we are again, six rounds to go and a Robbie doppelgänger playing on a wing for us (could this be an omen?). If you believe that history can and does repeat, let's believe that we can still go deep into September as many of our competitors are faltering around us, just as in 1987. ................. Robbie Flower - Everyone loved Robbie. 272 Games 315 goals. 2 time All Australian. Melbourne captain 81-87. One of the great wingers of all time. Robbie had the respect of many opposition fans, in the 80’s this was unique but the way Robbie went about it it was hard to dislike him. Few had the elegance and classy skills like Robbie, he was clean by hand and foot but also was strong in the one on one battles on the wing. He played at just 67KG. Robbie made his debut at Melbourne in 1973 and amazingly was given #2 in his first year, a number he would wear for the rest of his career. There’s no escaping the fact Melbourne were a struggling team in this time and Robbie won 6 of his first 31 games, but was a shining light. 1975 was somewhat of a breakout year for Robbie with the Dees winning 8 games and Robbie playing some great games including 28 disposals and 2 goals in round 2. In 76 Robbie averaged just on 20 disposals a game as the Dees went on to win 11 games and miss out on the finals by half a game. The Dees struggled in 77,78,79 Robbie had consistent years and in 79 he kicked 33 goals from the wing and in 77 won the Melbourne best and fairest. 1980 was arguably Robbie’s best individually. He averaged 22 disposals a game was named all Australian and kicked 21 goals. In 81 Robbie had a injury interrupted season In 83 Robbie was all Australian once again and kicked 40 goals. Robbie’s ability to outrun his opponent meant he was dangerous to get into good positions in front of goal. He was an extremely fast and intelligent player. 1987 rolled around and Robbie was yet to play a final. Entering 1987 on 252 games things were not looking good for the Dees early in the season. They had only won only 6 games to round 17 before going on a 6 game winning streak and snuck into the top 5 and to make the finals. They smashed north by 110 points in the elimination final then beat Sydney by 76 points before coming up against hawthorn. The Dees lead by 3 goals at 3QT before the hawks came back and Bucky kicked a goal after the siren to give hawthorn the win. It would be Robbie’s last game. He got to play finals but many have no doubt that Melbourne would have beaten Carlton in 87 if they went through. Robbie retired and went on to be a passionate fan of the club, he was inducted into the AFL hall of fame in 1996 and was named on the wing in Melbourne’s team of the century. Sadly Robbie passed away at just 59 after a brief illness. Paul Kelly played at Robbie’s funeral playing his favourite song called how to make gravy. The memories will live on forever and some will never forget everyone cheering on the Dees in 87 hoping Robbie would go out a premiership player. Thank you for all you gave to footy Robbie.

Great podcast as always BInman. Considering the adversities Goodwin has to endure in the last 12 months the one thing you cannot question is his ability to deal with adversity. Clarkson and Fagan aside no other coach has had to deal with the vitriol, scrutiny and circumstances compromising his ability to coach. I do wonder if another coach had to deal with the situations Goodwin has been through, would the media be lauding him?

My only criticism of Goody has been his tendency to play the same 22, even when some are clearly out of form or injured.. he has won me back this year by playing the kids and appears to be keen to adapt and embrace change.

I agree @Ollie fan - there's a bunch of good lists. How about Carlton? Theyve had as many if not more picks from top end of the draft and not even gone close, yet. Which is why contending 3 (possibly 4?) years on the trot is so difficult and we deserve credit (see Collingwood who go criticism free for their flag defence). Oh well.

I think Melksham will play next year. He’s only 32, very fit and has just given his body 12 months of rehab.

that backline was mint too - baby david neitz, paul prymke, sean wight, the febey bros, brett lovett, yeats it was a team that coulda shoulda woulda gone on to great things but never did due to unfortunate circumstances schwarz's pirouette out of a contest to kick a goal in the final vs the baggers is one of my favourite things of all time

Neitz was playing in defence then - but the forward line also had Sean Charles and Martin Pike.

Ok, how about this LH - let’s take the lid off if we beat Freo over there and come back and beat GWS the week after.

To be fair, if we had of been allowed to match Mac we would've missed out on a young kid with the initials JVR. So worked out ok in my books.

we don't have any requirement to trade petty he's under contract and will be a restricted free agent at the end of 2025 unless the crom or the pear come in with a juicy offer, i expect he'll be in red and blue next year... ...and fwiw rucci - who is pretty connected in sa medja - thinks he isn't comin back to sa

First game of footy I saw live was Dees v Eagles in '93. We were down by 4 goals to the reigning premiers in the third. Up steps a hitherto unsighted Jako to kick 6 in a half (and plant a kiss on Glen's cheek after one of them) to help the Demons storm home to win. Hooked on the Dees ever since. Extraordinary that he kicked 8.1 in his last game for the Dees before his back put him out for the season and our finals tilt. Off the list by seasons end.

You're not the only one that's happy @dazzledavey36, I think this is a change AFL had to make lest clubs withdraw any investment and support for NGAs. I'm very excited about Ah-Mu next year, the type of player we need on the list and now we have the incentive to keep supporting his development. I've seen AFLW NGA programs and outcomes first hand and know that some clubs invest more in the programs and do it better than others (and most clubs at large provide more resources toward the boys programs than AFLW), from what I've seen the Dees do a pretty good job investing across both boys and girls programs. Clubs deserve to be rewarded by getting access to the talent that comes through. FWIW AFL flagged review of all things draft and academy last year (was mentioned before the draft IIRC, gathered further steam after Suns cleaned up due to their own academy access) and despite what certain clubs say, there was a good chance that changes were going to come in this year. Andrew Dillon mentioned the potential for change in one of his first interviews with Cal Twomey & Riley Beverage. Any public commentary that clubs engage in will always be informed by self interest. I do wonder if this means that some (if not all) changes to the points system (DVI) will also be implemented this trade and draft period.

To further explain why its good that clubs will hopefully be rewarded including Melbourne, is that they're getting kids in at around 10-12 years of age into their NGA program and that's where the education and development starts. They're putting in a mountain of work and resources in making sure they're setting these young kids up to be the best possible footballers they can be whether they make it into the system or not. It's amazing now what they're exposed too in the elite environment and I think this is a credit to footy clubs in putting in the time and development into these junior kids. From then on, I'm a big believer that these same clubs should absolutely have the right to have first access to these kids if deemed talented enough to be in the mix. The Mac Andrew situation left a completely sour taste in my mouth because I know they started with him around 12 or 13 years of age and exposed him to all our resources and junior development porgram only to then change the rules last minute which [censored] us over. It was a completely reactive decision from the AFL and I know Jason Taylor was absolutely filthy at this.

It fits our form line for the fourth year in a row. When I first started discussing load management in 2021 it's fair to say I copped a fair bit. What's crazy is ive copped it every year since - so much so that I barely raise it anymore because I can't be bothered getting pilloried. (It's ironic actually because many of the posters lampooning and shutting down such conversations complain any criticisms of the club they make are policed and shut down - cue the face palm and vomit emojis) Crazy because you would have to actively ignore the evidence to be so wilfully ignorant. I recall mutiple posters, even in the face of iffrefutable evidence, say they won't believe loading happens (which morphed for many into, maybe a factor but.....) until a coach or ex player comes out and says it happens. Ok, well it's starting now to be discussed by such people. Good to hear Cameron Ling come out and discuss it. Del Santo alluded to it on the ABC in the early part of the season, saying it's all about playing your best footy in August and using the tapering for the olympics as an ananlogy Hopefully next season the discussion about high performance programs and load management can move from being a 'dirty word', or a running Demonland joke, to a nuanced discussion that factors in load management into the analysis of our performances. And as I've noted it might also open up discussions like the different high performance philosophies (manage and rotate, no rotation, squads, play through niggles etc) and an analysis of our high performance program. One benefit would be less of the hair on fire, the sky is falling, play the kids, we are a joke, sack goody, it's all about 2025 etc etc that dominates Demonland for a couple of months in the middle of every season. I mean, sure I skew positive, but some of the takes on where we were at coming into the bye, and even after our WIN against the Roos, have already proved to be utterly ridiculous - even if we don’t go on to push for a flag. Silly, vibes based, emotive stuff - but barely commented on, let alone anyone getting called on it Yet I make any reference to the impact of load management on performances like our last game against freo, and i'm ridiculed, with the subtext being, please no mote talk about loading - effectively shutting the conversation down.

I think the boys will, and rightly should be hurting after the poor effort in Alice Springs too… we lost a heap of credibility that day so beat them on their home deck in front of their supporters would also be a sweet way to earn some respect again.

Since we played Brisbane I've decided to just enjoy each game in isolation without worrying about their greater implications and have to say it's made going to the football more enjoyable.

Kind of incredible that if you include the game just played, we finish the season by playing every team from 5th to 12th. As to our final 8 chances... well, it almost defies analysis because our fate is so completely in our own hands. I tried. I turned out a few paragraphs looking at each team, but it just got silly. Long story short; 4 wins, 2 losses - we play finals, and probably have a home final, too. Nice and simple. 3 wins, 3 losses - if any one of Port, Footscray or Gold Coast get 4 wins, we're cooked. Nice and simple. We'd want our three wins to be the three games against these teams! Collingwood aren't a contender because the devil has finally come to take their soul. Their supporters might seem upbeat but that is only because they don't know what 'eternity' means. It means you have just two good players under 24yrs old, and the devil is most certainly from Tasmania. Hawthorn never had a soul for the devil to take, and will miss out on finals by percentage because they are flat track bullies. Tasmania will still come for them, just enough to ensure their rebuild falls just a liiiiitle bit short and they get stuck in the levitating potato mid-table zone for a decade.

You obviously haven’t read articles or listened to discussions (not Binman’s) where the High Performance teams are arguably one of the most important factors. It’s not rocket science that you have to keep the performance levels of teams..players to a level that has them “cherry ripe” for finals but the challenge this year is there’s been an extra game ,,,5 day breaks ..some teams with 2 byes etc. Players would also have their own personal programs ..,goals etc. This year has had more anomalies in terms of scoring ..results..upsets that I can remember..so good luck trying to work out all that & also when “other teams “ are loading. Whether you want to acknowledge this or not football is a science ..we only see the obvious things but it’s what we don’t know & shouldn’t know.. is quite simply what goes on between those four walls.

Clarry ain't going anywhere. Just because he's not playing at AA level he needs to be booted out? He doesn't need to be to be playing his role for the team. What a load of 💩 Who wouldn't be playing their absolute best after his offfield battles and not a full preseason? Did Buddy get the ar$e when he sat out the finals in 2015 because of his health? Nope. They stuck by him as any club should do. Buddy came back and had one of his best seasons in 2016. And I believe the same will happen with Clarry. Media pests need to buzz off and move from Clarry, he ain't going anywhere.

No. He won’t play again this year. We need to forget that fantasy.

We are now experienced wet weather specialists 😄