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They get a % of turnover. This does not appear to be included in the report. Ad revenue goes mainly to the broadcasters so in the first instance it's their problem. Not sure if the betting agencies sponsor any clubs. It's an insidious relationship that should never have been allowed to grow to that which it is today.

The happy, Choco getting AFL Hall of Fame recognition. Congratulations and well deserved. The sad, the passing of Matt Rendell, a nice guy that I met a few times, a very good footballer, coach and recruiter. Sincere condolences to family and friends. RIP Bundy.

Not a lot which is to be expected from a club with few real fans! I believe this is our first trip to play in the Northern Territory. For a bit of perspective, those out-of-form Demons have been playing there since 2014, winning four and losing four. We got smacked by the Dees at the MCG last year to the tune of eleven goals. That was in Round 5 and there’s been a lot of water under the Todd River bridge since then. The bookies have us at very long odds for this game, which is fair enough because we haven’t taken a big scalp just yet. The wildcard is the bye. Over the past decade, our record after the mid-season break has been three wins, nine losses. Yes, we won last year, but that was against North. Dees carved up by the cats backs who ran it out with ease …. We get our running game going and a definite chance Oliver out is a massive loss. Their midfield looks nowhere near as potent in the last month of footy. Agreed. Oliver out is a huge loss for them. They still strangle teams but our scoring has been much improved. I honestly think it's a 50/50 game Bring the intense pressure and we are a chance. This ground is a much better advantage for us vs the MCG where we have always struggled. The other big win is the venue. Packing in 40k at the G would have been a huge advantage for melb. I rate the team we have on the park. I back our Mids against most teams If Kingers coaches down on the boundary, we’re a chance! My Favourites Because poster is in fantasy land! A few weeks ago, I thought we weren’t a finals side, but at 6-8 we’re still in the hunt. Because a fool and his money will soon be parted! I might see if I’ve got a spare couple of hundred dollars lying around somewhere Rain, hail or shine Dees by 3 goals... ...lots more if ground is dry...

Nathan Brown just logged on to Seek.com

The idea that 2021 was somehow a "perfect season" is some of the greatest Demonland revisionism. We drew with struggling Hawthorn and lost by 20pts to the Dogs at the MCG in late July and plenty on the site were calling for Goodwin's head. We smashed GC at the start of August and things rolled from there. Although I had mates writing us off for the season at 3qtr time vs Geelong in the last round. 2021 was stuttering until the finals.

SEN. You can listen to it on the SEN Sports day podcast, and specifically the "Full On Footy Analysis with Daniel Hoyne". In relation to the first point, I have posted the updated "premiership metrics" for 2023. Melbourne currently rank in the top 6 in 18 of 19 of these metrics. The last 11 premiers all ranked in the top 6 in at least 14 of these 19 categories.

I actually like Joel Smith for the sub. Can do a job forward or back, and in either scenario we have the flankers that can move into midfield if it's a midfielder getting subbed out.

As a reformed addict who probably lost half a million dollars I can't wait for the day it is banned. It ruined my life and marriage. Just a terrible part of society. As an aside a ad for crown came up on demonland came up so this place isn't immune

People look at the prelim and grand final in 2021 and somehow think this level of perfection is sustainable or even repeatable. It is not. We were never this good during the H&A season and we will probably never be this good again. It was a freak performance that was up there with one of the greatest finals performances of all time. The more we expect to see it again, the more disappointed we will be.

Hopefully they will also be skewed by the final 9 weeks of the season (inclusive of finals) - you know, like they were in 2021.

We walked away from gambling sponsorship. The AFL needed a little push. Someone will will the void and the sooner the better

I can possibly mosey on down to Casey Tommorrow morning!😁

On radio last night Daniel Hoyne from Champion Data had a few interesting tidbits about us, including: We are one of two clubs (Port's the other) to be top 6 in both conceding opposition inside 50s, and conceding scores from opposition inside 50s, noting that 14 of the last 17 premiers have been top 6 in both of these categories Our profile over the last 6 weeks (which would be Rounds 10-15) is very similar to how we looked across the 6 weeks of Rounds 13-19 in 2021, including: scoring (15th in 2021, 16th now) generating scores from inside 50s (41% in 2021, 41% this year) generating shots on goal (7th most in 2021, 8th most this year) hard shots on goal (2nd hardest in 2021, 3rd hardest this year) accuracy (worst in 2021, 2nd worst this year) Remembering that in 2021 this was our "poor stretch" and then we won the final four games and looked much better as we headed into finals - although I don't necessarily accept Hoyne's reasoning that we're about to flick a switch or something and it's all just going to come together. This would, though, align with @binman's views that we're in the middle of a poorer phase of play (for various reasons, including our training regime) but can expect to trend upwards from here.

Yes mate, the boy from Shepparton United. Whilst their is still water to go under the bridge with most kids during their 15's and 16's year level, Onley is a kid with serious talent. For his age he's already quiet tall for a midfielder (193cm). Previous to this year he was alternating between forward and back before they switched into the midfield where he absolutely dominated. Certainly one to keep and eye on.

Binman? More like Clingman. I’m here all week, try the veal.

A number of years ago I flew to Adelaide ($56) then drove a rental to Alice ($300 total fuel inc) for the match (ticket x2 $50). Overnight in Port Augusta ($130) with 2 nights in Alice (for $190 total). Flew back to Melbourne red eye (~$300). Money well spent and a great experience (even through West Coast pipped us).

Fair few in here buying the Collingwood fapfest in the media. Their best is good, but our best is better.

As things stand I’d rather we try to get the Suns pick 9 with pick 15&27

Many countries do https://www.obesityevidencehub.org.au/collections/prevention/countries-that-have-implemented-taxes-on-sugar-sweetened-beverages-ssbs

I get your point adults will always gamble and how much they gamble is clearly an important issue as well. My issue with the advertising has always been with how it normalises gambling for children. It is 100% by design and is no different to how adults groom children for exploitation. It has to stop and the AFL need to remove themselves from any and all gambling revenue streams.

Have you seen That Sugar Film? Those industries have captured government (via lobbyists) in the same ways the Tobacco lobby remained relevant for so long. They've paid scientists to write papers downplaying the impacts on us. That film explores what the sugar industry has lifted from the Tobacco industry. As for betting agencies being able to take over, you can bet lobbyists are the reason why it's taken so long to get even a parliamentary recommendation on the table.

You should do what I do and listen to the programs on delay, as podcasts. The SEN app has them, I'm not sure where else you can find them, but as podcasts aside from an ad at the start they're ad free so you get the entire show/segment without the ads and therefore without the delays as well.

Thanks @WheeloRatings. Your work is exceptional. Interestingly our numbers this year are similar to our 2021 numbers, with the defensive criteria being stronger than the scoring criteria but across the board, not just top 6 but top 4 in most (and with bounces conceded being no good in both years!). I agree to an extent, despite my posts today in this thread. I don't think it's helpful or healthy to keep referring to 2021 and assuming that we're just going to "click" and everything's OK. The players also have said this year a few times that in 2022 we were guilty of trying to play 2021-style football too much and we've gone away from that this year. I was relieved to hear that. However, what I do think is interesting to compare is that a lot of what we're doing this year on the numbers is similar to what we were doing in 2021. We've now played every good side in the comp other than Adelaide so the numbers under consideration are statistically significant and give us a good data set. Again, this doesn't mean I believe that in the next few weeks everything's just going to flip.

There is precisely 0% chance McVee is dropped.

Didn’t look so crash hot when we dominated them for 80% of the game 2 weeks ago. They were one kick away from being beaten at home by the 8th team on the weekend. It’s seems flashy and exciting because they come from behind a lot, but their forward line is as much of a problem as ours, and there’s some clear weak links in their system.

I don’t think that is true. Last year we were banged up, we couldn’t win many second halves. Even in games we won well in our streak last year. This year in the last 6 weeks, we have nailed our press against good teams. We have won contested possession against good teams. Apart from last week, we were fine in last quarters. The gap in forward connection is structurally fixable to some degree, also trust can increase and make an impact, and simple decision making can also improve that execution in final third. I think the rest of the year will play out like this - we will get it together against some teams and smash them with our press funnelling deep entries and goals, win a ho hum 5 goal dominant game, and then we will have a couple of games where we will struggle to kick 10 goals, and we will see if our team defence can keep them to 8 goals… Never out of a game but also rarely destroying teams out of having a chance. We are a huge chance this year unless Port or Geelong click into Red Hot September. All teams have deficiencies. Ours are important, but because of team defence - it is coverable.

The last time I quoted former Kangaroos champion and Foxtel commentator David King in a match preview, the Demons played one of their best games to date of 2023 and beat Collingwood at the MCG on Kings Birthday. This has led me to return to the guru of all things football strategy, tactics and wisdom for another crack because I’m genuinely concerned that Melbourne is not achieving the things of which it is capable. Speaking on Fox Footy at the weekend, King delivered a significant reality check about the Demons’ forward line arguing that it’s “on life support” and their current mix up forward “is not winning a prelim final” this year. The current mix includes playing elite ruckmen in key forward posts. And based on their recent struggles up forward, the moment of truth is coming quickly for the Melbourne Football Club which earlier in the season was averaging more than 100 points per game (to Round 9) and was leading all AFL clubs for scoring at around that time. However, the past five matches have seen its match totals plummet with scores of 76 (vs Port Adelaide), 72 (Fremantle), 61 (Carlton), 66 (Collingwood) and 63 (Geelong). The team is suddenly bleeding from turnovers, battling to convert scores from inside 50 and in the past four matches has been in the mid 30s goal accuracy percentage range. Of course, it wasn’t just the forward line that was responsible for capitulating against Geelong, Fremantle and Port Adelaide or the near victory from defeat snatch against Collingwood. It was however, the lapses in the forward line where insufficient pressure was asserted on the Cats’ defence in the forward half that turned momentum in the space of three minutes that destroyed three quarters of hard work in their most recent encounter. That’s a red flag that brings the team to its moment of truth. I’m not sure whether the match committee is on top of this because we’re seeing minor patch up jobs with the forward line on a weekly basis with the same flat line forward scoring outcomes, little signs of pressure exerted on opposing defences and low possession statistics for the small forwards. This was not happening earlier this season and King is right to state the situation is not sustainable — the club remains strong in defence and has an elite level midfield (albeit missing its goat in the hamstrung Clayton Oliver) but to maintain a reasonable prospect of getting to a preliminary final, let alone winning one, it requires the forwards to make more of a contribution to the team effort than eight goals and many more behinds over the course of a game. The GWS Giants are no slouches. They not long ago bested Geelong at GMHBA Stadium and in their last game thrashed Fremantle on their home turf. This means the trip to Traeger Park, Melbourne’s home away from home, will present it with more than a few problems. Toby Greene is a likely handful for whoever is chosen to take him on, the Giants have excellent midfield talent in Kelly, Green and Coniglio and a very handy defence. Fortunately for the Demons, the Giants will have little support in the crowd and have to contend with the post bye hoodoo that’s ravaging AFL clubs this year. By way of a strange twist of fate the weather bureau is predicting heavy rain in the days leading up to the game. This should clear by game day and the Demons will be hoping that the ground drains well because they haven’t handled wet, greasy conditions well this year. On their last visit to the Alice, the Demons overturned a last start defeat against Geelong with the help of a six goal masterclass from Kozzy Pickett and the performances of Christian Petracca and Jack Viney in the middle. They overcame a slow start and focused on maintaining momentum throughout the game. They need to repeat that on Sunday at TIO Traeger Park and the best way to achieving that is by improving their inside 50 efficiency and scoring accuracy. With the moment of truth facing them in the heart of the country, the time has come to prove that there’s plenty of life left in their 2023 campaign. Melbourne by 15 points. THE GAME Melbourne v GWS Giants at TIO Traeger Park, Sunday 2 July, 2023 at 3:20pm HEAD TO HEAD Overall – Melbourne 9 wins GWS Giants 7 wins At TIO Traeger Park – Melbourne 0 wins GWS Giants 0 wins Past five meetings – Melbourne 3 wins GWS Giants 2 wins The Coaches – Goodwin 0 wins Kingsley 0 wins THE LAST TIME THEY MET Melbourne 19.6.120 defeated GWS Giants 7.11.53 at The MCG, Round 5 2022 This was one of Melbourne’s few big victories of the 2022 season, predicated on strong running, heavy defensive pressure and yes, sublime attacking football and superb accuracy when kicking for goal. THE TEAMS MELBOURNE B J. McVee S. May C. Salem HB T. Sparrow J. Lever T. Rivers C L. Hunter J. Viney E. Langdon HF C. Petracca B. Fritsch J. Smith F A. Neal-Bullen B. Grundy K. Chandler FOLL M. Gawn A. Brayshaw J. Harmes I/C J. Bowey B. Brown H. Petty K. Pickett SUB J. Melksham EMG J. van Rooyen C. Spargo A. Tomlinson IN J. Bowey B. Brown J. Harmes J. Melksham OUT M. Hibberd (kidney) James Jordon (omitted) C. Spargo (omitted) J. van Rooyen GREATER WESTERN SYDNEY GIANTS B J. Buckley S. Taylor C. Idun HF L. Ash H. Himmelberg N. Haynes C J. Kelly C. Ward F. Callaghan HF D. Lloyd J. Riccardi T. Bedford F X. O'Halloran J. Hogan T. Greene FOLL K. Briggs S. Coniglio T. Green I/C C. M. Brown I. Cumming L. Keefe H. Perryman SUB R. Angwin EMG A. Cadman J. Fahey M. Flynn IN R. Angwin I. Cumming J. Hogan OUT A. Cadman (omitted) J. Fahey (omitted) Whitfield (suspension) Injury List: Round 16 Clayton Oliver - Hamstring | 1 - 2 Weeks Michael Hibberd - Kidney | TBC Tom McDonald - Foot | 4 - 6 Weeks Kye Turner - Groin | TBC

Full on Footy with Daniel Hoyne via SEN last night. Very interesting listening as Hoyne looks at some stats from our boys over a 6 week period in 2021, compared to our last 6 weeks in 2023. For all those suffering from MFCSS, this is for you @Demonland Right up your alley @binman From 18:00 - 23:00 mins in https://dcs.megaphone.fm/NTETP9267425386.mp3?key=0de4b8c79f509be461f8cfa0ac81673b&request_event_id=5f900d90-2659-4984-8f3d-7e648e744177&source=3

It’s such a huge problem. My 11 yo talks about the odds and multi’s. It is so disgusting how far the AFL and government has allowed this to grow in our community. Thankfully common sense has prevailed.

I think sports betting should be more akin to alcohol (very harmful for some, ok for many others) than smoking (utterly harmful to everyone) and so should be allowed some limited advertising when kids aren’t targeted. Clubs have wisely jumped away from having betting sponsors. The league should ditch their deal. The percentage of turnover as a product fee funds integrity and has to stay. Id be ok with one ad a quarter/ad break post 9pm to minimise the impact on addicts but not completely derail tv ad revenue. It’s certainly going to be a challenge for the tv networks though, I wonder if the afl had a contingency in the tv deal for less revenue if gambling ads were banned.

About time. They’ll sniff out more money elsewhere. Hopefully money with a less corrupting nature. Nothing has been worse for the game than gambling money. Even if it meant the game just had less money, still a great outcome.

If you didn’t point it out I wouldn’t have even noticppped.

IMV, 2021 is important, because we (and others) will use it as a template to try and emulate. Throw in some lessons/learnings from Geelong's management program last year as well, except unlike Geelong's approach we'll only know the full story of our own 2021 approach. As a result, I believe that we deliberately tweak our ball movement through the middle of the season. I think we may have landed on it in 2021 as a response to our fatigue in that year or had a very deliberate strategy going into 2021 knowing we'd do this. As @binman often alludes to, Goody is a coach that plays the percentages and is seemingly a man of data accordingly. I've no doubt our FD would be all over these same CD numbers (and thanks for sharing, @titan_uranus) and more, and be saying we're doing a lot right, we just have to execute better (ie at this stage, we have to take our opportunities in front of goal). But back to the tweaks to our ball movement during the middle parts of our season, we are happy to deliberately go slower and longer to contests inside 50 if that's the state of that particular play (ie there's not someone free or in plenty of space inside 50). The other situation we're okay with during the middle parts of the season are finding free players across the 50m arc or wider in the pockets. It means less running and as the opposition tries to cover the more dangerous central areas as they begin to fatigue as well, those situations are more likely to be easier to hit up. However, slow ball movement to 1v1 contests often result in stoppages and kicks to the pockets/flanks/outside 50m across the arc, result in poor conversion. The reason is obvious. Many of our shots are either coming from tough angles, long distances or from snap shots off stoppages. But the trade off is as we have territory, it means we're essentially protecting our defence up the other end, and making the opposition defend us. I think if you look back to our 2022 season, we did a similar thing with our ball movement. Because a lot of our guys were playing injured and we often had little continuity in the back 7-8 due to injury ruling out players entirely, we tried to protect the defence by taking territory and trying to lock the ball in. The problem was our ball movement became so predictable that it didn't always result in grinding out a territory win, but often allowed teams to slingshot on us from the ensuing ground ball that would go to a contest. But despite this predictable and dour style, it enabled us to be a stingy defence and defence wins flags. Our problem was we never really got our offence going again. The exception being that Brisbane game in Round 23 of 2022. Anyway, if you remember back to the last few weeks of the 2022 season, we started to try and take on the corridor more, but it seemed like a bit of a plan on the fly or we simply didn't have the right guys to execute it. This year, we've set ourselves up more to slingshot and take on the corridor when it's on. It feels like a very deliberate plan. However, this dare has gone out of our game somewhat in the middle part of our season, but with the slingshot method in play, IMV, we're giving ourselves a better chance of creating 1v1s or free numbers ahead of the ball by playing the slingshot method as a key to scoring. Also, one of the main differences during the middle part of this year in comparison to 2021 and 2022 (2022 in particular) is that when we're going slow and long to a contest inside 50, we're going more centrally. This does have the potential to open us up more as going centrally provides the opposition with more exits, but we're maintaining a really good shape behind the ball, which enables us to almost tempt the opposition to chain out of our A50 and get through us. However, it's a risky move for them, because if we can create a turnover, we should have a decent look going back the other way. And conversely even if the opposition do get through, hopefully we can push them wide, slow them down or win 1v1s behind the ball to halt their attack. In short, I believe we deliberately tweak our ball movement during this period of the year and part of that sees lower accuracy, but ultimately, I think our turnover game, which has been a greater focus this year, is providing us stronger scoring potential than a pure clearance focus and territory game as per 2021 and 2022. We simply need to be more accurate when we get those chances inside 50.

Thanks Luci! By the by, the two most passionate AFL fans I've come across in Sydney are massive GWS fans... to the point that I adopted GWS as a second team (when the rest of the office kept on insisting I shouldn't follow Demons now I'm Sydney based - clearly they don't understand a team is for life)

Offer a pack of chips and an 80’s mix tape.

No club will pay a first rounder for him, he has barely been playing for Freo. I still want him though. Fact of the matter is, we need a shake up. We need a more dynamic and potent list and an injection of players who can finish their work. I'd be showing Harmes, Jordan, T-Mac, Melksham, Hibberd, Smith and Tomlinson the door in order to get a couple of trades,host of new talent and keep exposing our kids. We are completely vanilla at the moment. Shut down Oliver or Trac and we wilt. Pressure us and we wilt. Whilst Collingwood treated their players the wrong way, their hard decisions look to be paying off. They are a list with realy X factor, excitement and they have such a great blend of attributes all over the field.

In brighter news ( to some) I'M BAAACK from our 12 week sojourn Nth and soooo If DEES are training at CASEY tommorrow , ?? I'm sure I can mosey down and do a Training report!! Can anyone confirm?? Cheers to all .PF

Tmac (running and kicking), K.Turner in boots, must be closer, are only two in rehab. Plenty of noise as they get into their full field drills. They started with the fundamentals being loose, but have worked well into building up the standards. Clarry running hard. I can't see Hibbo, (I've had that problem before). Two station drills, both start with stoppages and competition. Two groups in the central bounce area, forcing turnovers, then delivering into the forward set up, after they go the second group then delivers. Makes the forwards look for the second quick entry. Stafford down in with them, and is having discussions of what he wants to see. The other station is much simpler. Two separate groups near the wings 50 arc, with handball competition then go for goal with a spread after the whistle. Williams takes the next drill after some instructions, they head to to goal area. Ground ball gets from, up, low, and pressure, snaps. The energy is high as they move to set shots they rotated through the 4 different stations, then back to the snaps again, and then more sets. The clubs administrators have gathered in numbers. It is a sea of red and blue at the shed. Pert and Richardson did the talking. Presentations and awards to the admin was the purpose. They finish up with some sprints (not extensive) and some laps.

McVee didn't play last season

Jack's come of the ground in consecutive games with a shoulder. Both times in considerable pain. First time it was described as a 'stinger' but that sounds like a ruse.

I told a WC supporter last week ( on a Train Special Trip all around Switzerland heavy AFL discussion) that no one on the East Coast of Australia especially in Vic cared a toss about the Eagles and their predicament. In fact that them and The Pies are most hated opponents as their supporters are the worst and most arrogant in the AFL. He still thinks that it will only take 2 seasons to be back in the hunt but alas is a bit impatient about who they are going to trade out and when are they going to start getting rid of most of their gassed and banged up heroes of 2018. And who is going to want any of them in their present malaise?

Neal Bullen has always fumbled even in 2021. but he plays his role chance of being dropped? Zero

Stats back up the eye test. He’s plateaued. Five seasons in with a mature body and midfield opportunity and he’s still below AFL average. If he doesn’t improve over the next 12 months he’ll be out of the best 22 permanently you’d think.

This could be proven correct. However, prior to going out he was (and still is) our highest goal kicker on averages and has yet to be given another block of games to prove whether he still has it in him or not. After being in the top two or three at Casey on Friday and playing out the entire game at a VG level, if he doesn't get picked this week then we may have seen the last of him at the highest level.

Known him since a young tacker when he would be down in the footy sheds around gameday running water for our team. Played footy and won a premiership with his old man Jamarl who was an absolute gun country footballer.

GWS INJURY LIST PLAYERINJURYESTIMATED RETURN Brent Daniels Hamstring 1-2 weeks Phil Davis Calf Test Jason Gillbee Concussion Test Cooper Hamilton Foot TBC Darcy Jones Knee Season Adam Kennedy Knee Season Braydon Preuss Back TBC Lachie Whitfield Suspension Round 17 Updated: June 27, 2023 Early prognosis The Giants don't expect Daniels to be fit just yet, but Nick Haynes (ankle) and Jesse Hogan(calf) have recovered over the bye and should play. Davis and Gillbee are also likely to return, but expect that to be at VFL level. Whitfield is suspended. – Riley Beveridge

Just on ANB... How did we experience the brilliant knock on - to Pickett in the 3rd when he kicked a goal, against Geelong - did we want ANB dropped then? I know as a species we have a evolutionary preference for looking at the negative, to fix problems, but if you are a supporter expecting games and players to be error free throughout a sport where a) you are physiologically depleted, b) cognitively depleted and c) coming up against opposition who desire to win as much as you do, and d) you yourself get upset at errors that 'look' as though they come at crucial moments, and then disregard errors (from both teams) that occur in Q1, Q2 and Q3, then I guess ANB always deserves to be dropped - and you're right @dazzledavey36 he won't be unless his form warrants it. Thank gawwwd the football department are open to players making errors, without them being crucified like Jesus. 2020 was often refrained with..."You can't win a premiership with players like ANB'

Would the keyboard hamstring experts give it a rest.