Leaderboard

....and soccer wonders why it can't get ahead in this country. We had a Dutch visitor a couple of years ago, who was a fanatical soccer fan back home. But when I suggested we go to an AFL game she was terrified, yes terrified. She was accustomed to being bussed to opposition grounds ( even for local games) and parked behind barbed wire to be separated from opposition fans. Then the same procedure going home. So when we arrived at the MCG where fans of both teams walked to the ground together, sat together , and then walked home together, she was simply blown away.

I’m having an early breakfast and catching up with the news and there, staring directly at me is an on line story in this morning’s Sunday Sun written by Glenn McFarlane ~ Have the Demons already solved their key forward issues? The story also appears at the bottom of page 86 in today’s print issue under the title “Van Rooyen’s time has come at the Demons”. It’s about Melbourne’s hopes that an untried talent and an injury-prone veteran can help it overcome its key-forward issues from the latter part of this year. “Track watchers have noted the solid pre-season form of Jacob van Rooyen, who is yet to play a senior game but came so close last season, and premiership forward Tom McDonald, who only managed nine games in 2022 due to injury. The Demons struggled to get bang for their buck when going forward last season, with their forward mix an endless source of debate.“ This made me wonder whether the people at the Hun are reading our reports I mean the article got the drift about our hopes that the availability of JvR and TMac for senior duty in 2023 will make a difference to Melbourne’s forward set up, but that’s nowhere near the full story unfolding in front of the eyes of our “track watchers”. Firstly, some housekeeping about fact and fiction. The article refers to JvR as a “20-year-old 191cm forward” but he’s neither. His date of birth is listed on the MFC website as 16 April 2003 which means he’s still a 19 year old and the site refers to his height in one place as 193cm and elsewhere as “[S]tanding at 194cm”. I can add to the debate by saying that from my previous observations and again on Friday at training, he’s probably a bit taller than that. At one stage, he was contesting in ruck duels against Brodie Grundy (202cm) and appeared to be giving away only a couple of inches to the Demons’ new big man. At another stage he was pitted against Harry Petty (197cm) who barely shaded him height wise. Perhaps, when the club updates its website in the new year, it might organize the players to be measured for height. In the meantime, we might be happy that the media and other clubs are labouring under a misapprehension about JvR’s vital statistics. 😀 Secondly, McFarlane has only covered part of an intriguing story that’s unfolding with regard to repairing the issues that derailed Melbourne’s premiership defence this year. At this time of year there is always the matter of pre-season preparation of the team for the year ahead and the development of tactics and strategies but this year, the big story is what the club’s ruck set up will look like with Gawn and Grundy, both leading practitioners of their craft. And based on Friday’s training session, that “untried talent” might also have a role to play in that story as well.

Scoring or lack of has absolutely nothing to do with badly behaved fans. Don’t believe it’s the most frustrating game either, the millions that follow and love it will tell you that. People can hate on the game all they want, it’s their prerogative but there’s been a lot of times where I’ve found a 0-0 draw as thrilling as a close AFL game. It’s all about the anticipation where one goal could win the game. And that was absolutely dismal behaviour last night, those responsible for attacking the goalie should never be allowed anywhere near a stadium ever again.

It's pleasing to see the new MCC president Fred Oldfield appears to be a dyed in the wool Demon. On receiving an email about his appointment I went looking for his football allegiance and found it in a real estate article concerning the sale of his (gulp...$10.5 million Malvern) home which included a picture of his sports bar complete with MFC flag, framed Demons jumper and team photo. (Detail attached.) The MCC has not always been well disposed towards us and it was always a comfort when Steve Smith headed the joint but that's a few years back now. Despite our current comfortable position we need all the friends we can find.

Was the 2-2 goal scoreline in the AFLW GF "boredom"?

Gus has never been the lean ripped looking athlete, but asides from injury getting in the way, I think he generally knows what it takes fitness wise to play at the level and doesn't shirk the track work to get there - he's basically mr work ethic when it comes to this stuff. I'm unconcerned.

I see that Demonland Training Reports have been uncredited again.

Soccer is far the most popular sport in the world for a reason. Brings joy to hundreds of millions. and is easily the popular sport in Australia to play. I’ve been to many A league matches and I find there are less fights and personal abuse that footy matches. The media don’t like reporting on all the fights at the footy for some reason. Believe me or not I’m upset about last night, a few hundred absolute morons who should be thrown in jail. Absolute disgrace. Has reversed all the goodwill gained from the World Cup and will set the game back even further.

it's boredom

and get rid of the stupid offside rule might see more offense instead of continual defensive possession game

Cmon. If it wasn’t entertaining or exciting people would lose interest over time. Its a beautiful game full of skill and technique and can be played by people of any size. I’m biased as I love the game and played it for 20 years so I understand if others don’t get it

Just because something is the biggest or has the most supporters/followers doesn’t make it the best. Life has given us some classic examples of that.

I think that perhaps people that may have grown up watching and / or playing football before being introduced to Aussie Rules at a later age have a slightly different take on what makes a great atmosphere. For me it will never be one team chanting Melbourne when they score a goal followed by the other team chanting the name of their team when they do likewise for two hours, backwards and forwards. Even with 80,000 in the ground it has always felt a bit lame. A bit like attending an NFL game perhaps. Lots of woohoo's and high fives which is all very civilised but nothing compared to the feeling of taking up one entire end of a stadium with your own tribe singing non stop for 90 minutes. Trust me, the two aren't even close. One problem with crowd segregation however is that it creates a lot of false bravado, particularly with the minority of people that want to emulate some the stuff they see in Latin America and Europe that has no place in our country. What happened last night was a disgrace and has set the game here back years I think. It was only a few weeks ago that the 'supporters' of an ethnic backed state league side in Sydney were giving nazi salutes. There's no question that The City Football Group (PLC) should be awarded the 3 points and Victory should have to play their next 2-3 games behind closed doors and pay a large fine. Security also need to be taking games like these seriously as there is no way either set of fans should have been able to take flares inside the ground. What possessed the city keeper to throw one back into the crowd I have no idea.

It's not soccer per se. Billions of the world's population like it and follow it. I don't quite get it either, but that's not a reason to dismiss it. The situation the other night was some angry testosterone-driven males protesting about something they didn't like (shifting finals to Sydney) and resorting to violence. Whether soccer promotes that is a good question, as it has a history. As a society I just think we are becoming angrier about things we don't like. Read the newspapers or media and there are constant stories about anger. They promote it for click bait. The fact there's even a political party named the Angry Victorians is a good indication of where we are heading. The world needs a chill pill. Or a genetic program to remove the aggressive gene. Or let women run the world for the next hundred years.

The Brayshaw Xmas 100 x 100 challenge should sort things out.

From the reports, Luci, it certainly sounds as if Gus has learnt to pace his preseason.

Elementary my dear Watson

Max only went forward given we were missing a KPF. In 2021 he was more a kick behind play. LJ was largely ineffective when tearing down forward as well. With Grundy and our replenished/recovered KPF stocks I think we’ll be able to return to our 2021 setup, which was an impenetrable defence. Grundy obviously supersedes LJ and potentially a TMac/JVR/BBB KPF line. Hunter on the D- wing are the upgrades that will add further potency in attack. Let’s hope that we are fitter this year.

It was around about this time four years ago that I turned up to Grosch’s Paddock on a sunny December morning to witness a sparkling Melbourne training session. With a few exceptions, the boys were training hard, looking fit and healthy and all was sweetness and light. I drafted a glowing report about the Demons’ prospects for 2019, sat back and looked forward to a year of football bliss. To my surprise, the Dees had a shocker of a season finishing in 17th place. They even ended the year below Carlton who turned at 1-10 halfway through the season and they sacked their coach! We snuck home by a single point against the eventual wooden spooners on the Gold Coast and the whole dismal year ended in doom and gloom with bushfires ravaging the continent. The scourge of Covid-19 was waiting for us around the corner. Come January, my New Year’s resolution was never to write a glowing preseason training report again. Hence, in summary, my impressions about this morning’s session at the Paddock was that it sucked! Some of the negative things I noted in my head as I watched the session were:- • The number of players who were in rehab or injured during the session. The rehab group included premiership players Angus Brayshaw and Michael Hibberd while Jake Lever hurt his knee during the session. Bulldogs recruit Lachie Hunter also took a knock early but resumed training. Others in rehab were Andy Moniz-Wakefield, Joel Smith, Deakyn Smith, newcomers Jed Adams, Will Verrell and train on potential recruit Trent Burgoyne. Disappointing. • Hardly any of the young players appear ready – most of them were kept back from the simulated match play and trained separately under Choco Williams. They might have been good at NAB Cup or APS football, but they are not ready to play AFL senior football in 2023, not even the kid we plucked out of obscurity from Xavier College. Recruits are not what they used to be, and we might as well start getting used to making the long drive down the Monash Freeway and beyond to Casey Fields if we want to see those blokes next year. So disappointing that we will not get to see our first rookie draft pick burning up the G against the Bulldogs in Round 1. • Who oversees the players’ wardrobes these days? I noticed a couple of ruck duels between two blokes who were both wearing the number 6 on their backs. How do they expect us to tell them apart so that those of us who take the trouble to turn up to a training session can report on their performances with some accuracy? Not good enough! • There was too much fun and frivolity. Players were having a fun time but it’s December - exactly the time when players should be knuckling down for the rigours of the long season ahead. • My god, Christian Salem's aged! His hair has turned grey overnight! • I have a number of other complaints and that’s why this report isn’t a glowing one as you might have expected. Take off the rose coloured glasses and start worrying. Think MFCSS and with a bit of luck I might make a different New Year’s resolution at the end of 2023. Merry Christmas all!!!

Back when I was VICPOL the NSL was still a thing, I remember for one game in South Melbourne with 10,000 fans we had 200 police and close to 200 detained/arrested, dogs/horses and it looked like a WEF demonstration, the next week I worked the football for a ~80,000 crowd with beer flowing and i think we had 8 arrested for being drunk (not sure if there were any assault charges associated) worked by between 16 and no more than 20 cops. This for me was the reality week to week policing. The trouble makers were some of the same crooks we had in Fitzroy 1FZ (or AFZ if you are a really old copper), showing up at the US embassy during the NATO air campaign in the former Yugoslavia throwing spring valley bottles full of petrol (as molotovs) at the US consulate in St Kilda Road, i.e. a very specific bunch of ratbags that have latched onto the game. They were dealt with in time (legally). Was the best decision to shut down the NSL and get rid of the European flag waving at the matches. Anyway the difference for me between the crowds was with footy it has been going for ever so to speak and the supporters are intergenerational and there is 'community pressure' on the young bucks to behave. The soccer didn't have it, was a very young, very male crowd with no sort of community handbrake attached, this is the drama. I notice the pitch invaders were all young entitled men (and a few idiots left over from the 90's). I went to the France-Morocco game here the other night, huge pro-Morocco crowd, being semi Arab and definitely African, I was one of four (two women/two men) French supporters (and the only one in a French shirt (one of my kids is half French what can I say-I was sledged mercilessly by that half during the group games). And was slightly nervous about what that would look like in a crowd of 100's. Could not have been more friendly, despite the enthusiastic and very loud support for Morocco, I could not have been treated with more respect, with the most vocal fans coming up to chat, calling me Habibi etc(incl. those wearing Moroccan shirts). The other feature was plenty of young women and parents there following the game as well. I do feel sorry for the legitimate fans of Victory, but this is the moment the club has to take a stand. Or it will be shut down, just like the NSL was, as I can tell you politically this sort of violence is seen as super toxic and will be met with a very heavy hand. In other non AFL Melbourne sport stuff, HOW FANTASTIC IS THE SWIMMING, Emma is just such a gun. And blowing the jaarpies off the park in a couple of sessions has given me plenty to stir the pot with after a dismal Rugby Union tour.

If it's any consolation pitmaster pretty much all of the places colonised by the above mentioned are hopeless at football. Most of the Sahel was conquered by France but you'd never really know it in a football sense. Maybe because all of their better players now have EU passports and play for Les Bleu. Haiti, Mauritius and Madagascar are also rubbish. I don't think Namibia learnt much about the round ball game from Germany although it might partly explain why Argentina have been so good since the second world war ended. As for England, Australia might be their greatest success story, along with the USA. Both late bloomers. That leaves the likes of Belize, Ghana, Canada, NZ, India, Kenya, Zambia and Zimbabwe. Even the home colonies of Wales, NI and Scotland aren't very good. In a footballing sense you could say that in the English Empire the sun never sets on mediocrity. It's fair to say though that Portugal hit the jackpot.

I enjoyed, and became absorbed in a couple of the WC contests this last week and had to admire the fine skills of the best players in the world...their judgement, control and creativity was terrific, but after a while I found myself asking "What's missing here?" and decided it was the variety of skills - especially high marking - and the ability to control an odd shaped ball that renders our game superior. And of course, whenever an Aussie Rules follower says it is the superior game the devoted soccer fan says "world game". Fair enough, but why is it the world game? Perhaps if Australia had colonised South America and Africa our game would be the world game. And there, to me, lies the truth of it. The spread of soccer, as exhilarating and exciting and dull as it can be, is a product of British and European (esp French and German) colonialism. Not so noble after all, eh?

I wish that was available 30-40 years ago when leaving Windy Hill

I don't get the ubiquitous use of flares by the dumb [censored] in the crowd. Even at Fed Square where the crowd was watching on a screen! I don't get players blatently staging for frees (yes, Aussie Rules has an element of that too, but its minimal) I don't get the intimidating push and shove with ref's by players. Its a blight on the game. We got on top of it quickly this last season, even at junior level. Still happens, but less and less I don't get that it often costs well over a thousand dollars for registration and club fees to let your kid play junior soccer (cf about $300 for AFL) I don't get that Australia are currently punching well above our weight re World Cup, but the skill level at A league games often makes me cringe Soccer has an amazing participation rate for kids under 10. That they can't convert this into adult level is perhaps a fortunate bonus for the AFL. Local events this last week mentioned in the OP make me less interested in the game

give it a rest, hawk. it's just boring you going on and on over such trivia 😒

Make the goals a metre wider, scoring problem solved.

He's only human. He'll get fit faster than anyone now that he's back into training. Give him some room, he put in a terrific 2022 season for us and deserved a rewarding break; we know he'll go for another outstanding season as this short timeframe rolls by.

We cannot forget the additional freedom that may well be created for Fritta in the forward line; he's a damaging player for opponents - even in times of tough player arrangements. The impenetrable defence arrangement will require some fiddling in terms of the game plan where long-bombing is no longer the preferred option, certainly down the left hand side from fullback must be addressed with our more potent field-wide potentials. It is going to be an exciting season and I would expect that the streaming mosquitos and midfielders will be tremendously valuable and creative.

Someone in the family must go for Carlton.

One reason that soccer is popular is that young people (and older people) can play informally in a very small area (*) and practice the skills of the game regardless of size. That makes it attractive to develop an interest in the sport generally. In response to some earlier posters, while a score of 0-0 with 5 minutes to go may be exciting, I feel the cummulation of frustration for the preceding 85 minutes is a factor in the behaviour of spectators. The most likely result is still 0-0 and frustration abounds regardless. Footy matches may be over if a team scores 6 goals to nothing in Q1, but maybe not, and the losing supporters have an hour or two to internalise the result and enjoy the odd goal your team scores. Soccer 3-0 at half time, and you may be tempted to entertain yourself singing or throwing flares. Don't get me started on matches decided by penalty shootouts. *Not something you can really do much of with footy.

That we are daisycutter, that we are. Roll on March 18.

I don't agree with the knock on the game itself...low scoring keeps it interesting to the end. The Cat's GF was over in the first 10 minutes. Geelong and Sydney supporters didn't go on a rampage for the rest of the game. It's a cultural problem worldwide for sure...it's been a problem here with soccer and I only hope it doesn't take hold in our sport. Think of the Buddy celebration at the SCG, what other sport and country (maybe NZ) could that type of celebration occur? If soccer are serious about cracking down they need to start suspending clubs or at the very least take match points away.

Ummmm, no ‘gotcha’ moment I’m afraid. I suspect this thread was set up to feed the ‘I can’t stand soccer’ brigade among us which is fine. Knock yourselves out. My game is better than your game. Whatever. I saw the topic of discussion being specifically related to the fans that follow football and my comment related to that. I’d love to be able to create the sort of atmosphere you see up and down the UK every weekend at the G but how can it be done without the sort of scenes we witnessed last night. Solve that one and the Nobel peace prize is in the mail.

I watch the EPL Soccer, it has an attacking ethos, European Soccer is more defensive and i stay clear of it. I am not interested in viewing a 0-0 Draw. I do believe the lack of scoring is part of the reason Soccer Fans can get violent. It is not the only reason, but it certainly gets the Blood Pressure up. I don’t usually watch A-League, but did last night as I wanted to see what was going to occur at 20 minutes. Where was the Security around the Perimeter? The A-League is a complete joke. the Player who got hit last night could have been killed, it was a serious hit. This will have serious consequences and so it should. Why would anyone Sponsor the Product?

What reason is that? I’d say purely because that’s what they’ve been brought up watching / playing. Not because it’s the most exciting or entertaining game to watch, AFL holds that title.

Preseason at the hofbrauhaus - works for me.

So what if the actual member numbers differ from memberships? As SWYL stated, the Club (in fact all Clubs) benefits from the number of memberships sold. As all clubs are measured this way, I don’t see the issue, and cannot understand why you are making such a big deal about it.

We basically went straight into pre season not long after the GF. TMcs injury did not help. No doubt many unreported niggles. Perhaps we did not manage players adequately and should have rested players allowing recovery and players at Casey to be tried out. I think that would have been reviewed over the break this year.

Like Tracs basketball Disco's discoing Jack V trying to run through brick walls Clarry knocking on hairdressers doors after hours to get plenty of product for his new Little Pony style hair arrangement. Maysie entrecoting down Grenville St and new boy Ollie Sestan sleepwalking back to Schoolies on the GC to complete his full week there. What a diverse group of champion trainers we have setting the standards for all the group in 2023. PS Hibbo is also practising his 100m dash with a large cup in hand and a full beer can in the other!!

And if players aren't 100% that Goody and Selectors don't select them. No more great first halves and below par slow defensive save our lives second half of athletes that are trying their hearts out but can't get into top gear to overrun the opposition.

Do you want me to start you a gofundme account to raise money for a vasectomy?

That was just an example. Examples like that expalin the difference of 6,774 (over 10%) - not negligible. From the MFC itself: 'There are approximately 59,700 MFC members (this differs from the number of 66,484 published on the AFL website due to several individuals holding multiple memberships)'

Demonland & @Whispering_Jack are at Preseason Training Today I’ll provide some updates and posts links to this post to any full training reports from our Trackwatchers Rehab: Gus, Hibberd, Jed Adams, Will Verrell, Andy Moniz-Wakefield, Burgoyne, Joel Smith, Deakyn Smith I will collate all of my posts/observations below: Mids doing one on one ground ball drills Talls doing one on one marking drills Hunter came off second best in a drill and is limping One on one tackling drill saw two epic match ups. Trac vs Clarry Viney vs Sparrow Can’t see Joel Smith. I think Burgoyne is also amongst the rehab group. Kozzy is back at training - looks massive, so clean picking the ball off the ground, superb disposal. Some different numbers being worn at training today. Salem wearing #2 JVR wearing #6 Hunter wearing #35 Kye Turner (train on player from Haileybury) is a big unit and looks impressive in the air and has clean disposal. Jacob Van Rooyen (JVR) & Grundy are the standouts for me. Both clean in the air and by foot. Matt Jefferson is tall and very skinny. Will benefit from a year at Casey, a year in the weights room and another preseason. Can Mark. Melksham vs May in this drill. No steaks involved. ----- observation after training - Melksham trained really well Grundy vs Gawn in the ruck. Grundy wins. Taps to Viney. Viney to Schache. Schache handballs back to Viney. Viney blind turns out of a tackle and goals. Some more epic battles; Disco Turner vs TMac Petty vs JVR Disco as the defender took a great contested mark against TMac. Some of the delivery into the forward line in this drill is poor. TMac not happy with it. TMac is impressing me as other trackwatchers have previously mentioned. Strong marker and straight, accurate shot for goal. All the defenders have been monsters and have been excellent as expected. Can’t see JVR NOT playing Round 1. Trac super competitive. Viney impressive as always. Clarry is a magician. As reported Sparrow has put on size and I expect him to be a mainstay in the middle. Kozzy will definitely play more midfield minutes next season. Ben Brown has also been impressive. So good on a lead up the middle. I wish we delivered it to him more that way than putting high on his head in a pack of player. Sure he is very good one on one with his height and long arms but if the ball is delivered high in a pack then forget about it. Let him lead up the guts. The race for spots in the forward line is going to be fierce. In summary, we’re training the house down. Grundy could be the recruit of the year especially if it means Gawn plays a kick behind the play (and not in the forward line). 3/4 length ground match sim. Max vs Schache in Ruck. Grundy playing forward. Max taps a beauty to Kozzy from a boundary throw in. You love to see it. I hope Kozzy sees more midfield time. Now JVR is rucking against Grundy and beat him. Max playing forward. This doesn’t bode well for my wish of Max not playing forward. Kozzy sells some candy, kicks it to Max who passes nicely to Grundy outside the 50 who plays on and drills a goal from 50. None of the new recruits (first years) are taking part in the match sim. JVR beating Grundy in many of the boundary throw in ruck drills that start off each match sim drill. this observation is not a knock on Grundy. TMac killing it up forward. Grundy kicks another. Lever left the track with a knee complaint. Currently in the hands of the trainers. Finished with the trainers. No one looks concerned. Is limping a little. The boys then took off their footy boots and put on the runners and then did so run throughs but Lever did not participate. He then hopped on the bike that is set up under the shelter. I don't think he looked too worried. That is they weren't icing it or sending him off to get scans. Gus was doing some light running and is currently on the rower. No visible strapping on his body. Joel Smith now doing weights under the new structure with the other rehabbers. It was a long training session. Started before 9:30am and was still going at about 11:40am when I had to leave as they were doing some running after a 2 hour skills session. I will say that the tackling and intensity was absolutely fierce and I was worried that there would be plenty more mishaps. Thankfully there weren't. I was up close and personal for a few Jack Viney tackles and if my arm wasn't already in a sling from shoulder surgery it would have been after witnessing that devastation. WHISPERING JACK'S TRAINING REPORT PICKET FENCE'S TRAINING REPORT

l bought 5 × 13 Clayton Oliver memberships with a couple of games left in the season

Nothing has been posted. There was definitely someone there taking photos/video.

This is the leaked round one line up, you can tell as it's on a spread sheet

Just a reminder that this is the bromance we had to have.

Hope so...