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I don’t like the implied criticism of Fritta. I thought it was unfair right through the season. He is there to kick goals, not to give them away. In fact, I think the murmur of criticism of him for being selfish got to him and he ended up giving away some critical opportunities to try and be unselfish which cost us a game or two. Sooner or later, someone has to take the shot – so often, with other players we would see the ball being handpassed around and around looking for the perfect opportunity; Fritta is there to take the opportunity and kick the goal.

Not to mention, we need Petty to continue to develop down back so that he can take over when May moves on or starts to decline - which could be only a season or two away. May will be 31 next year. There's no reason why the bulk of this group can't be up at the pointy end of things for 5 years or so and we need to draft, list manage and develop players accordingly.

I’d like to see Petty remain in the back half of the ground. Our backline is our strength. If it’s not broken, don’t stuff around with it. Rather see (hope) that JVR is part of the solution for the forward line along with a well ‘player managed’ BBB. …..and better delivery / connectivity coming from / with the mids

West Coast took Jack Williams as Kennedy’s long term replacement, so can’t see them or us taking Jefferson. On another note and in keeping with our forwards. I had to drop into the Claremont football Club today, JVR was in the gym doing some conditioning, they started introducing him to me. I said mate lifelong Demon, you don’t need to tell me who this bloke is. Shook his hand and wished him luck for the season ahead.

I find this suggestion of throwing Petty forward just bizarre. It only weakens our backline. Heck, if we really want to solve the KPF question we could just go the whole hog and move Steven May down there.

Well, if that’s what happened to him, that is an absolute disgrace. If anyone saw him in public and didn’t do him the courtesy of leaving him alone, the only way to treat him would be to admire and praise his absolute class and elegance as a player.

Young people especially need support and guidance..... but ultimately you're correct Steve ..... we must take responsibility for our own actions.

Fritta's role is to kick goals. I believe that his eyes and mind are always on a goal kicking opportunity. That he once ignored Tracc in a better position is not a failure. He was just doing his job. It falls to his team mates to support him in this role by shepherding, leading oppos away, loud voices etc. Six goals in a premiership buys a lot of indulgence..

i wonder how much our back line gets paid compared to the forwards? Seems we disproportionately have most of our talent in the backline....We also got better backups for our backline too. Something has to give eventually. Petty forward is a risk we can afford to take. He is a better mark than David Neitz imo, who exceled both back and forward. Given the chance he will kill it as a forward, has the required mongrel in him to succeed.

Unless they’re game changing talents I don’t think picking rucks early is a good value proposition. That said, there’s clearly a point in the draft where getting a good footballer is better than rolling the dice on an inferior talent Barnett seems to read the play well and launch/extend his arms when marking far better than most junior rucks. Whilst not on the level of someone like Jacko he does look a solid athlete too. I’d probably be a little disappointed if he went at 13, but if we trade back to say pick 20 he’d be a good pick.

To my mind, if we are relying on BBB as a key forward in 2023, we will be in trouble. His weaknesses were really shown up this year -particularly his awkwardness as soon as the ball hits the ground. I am not blaming him; he was instrumental in 2021 and he owes us nothing. But the way forward is TMac, JVR, Schache maybe, a dynamite midfield led by Gawn and Grundy, and of course Fritta.

Exactly!! It's just a delay to pre-season, Brown will be fine and now with support (T-Mac and JVR) he will have more space to play his leading game. The back end of this year isn't fair to mark Brown on, he clearly needed a rest and tall support in the fwd line but we refused to play Weid. he has the work load of 2 fwds generally playing on at least 2 def

The impression I got from tonight's training was how supportive they are of each other, their competitive nature, with a strong will to win, even the little stuff. I liked how Libby Birch and Tayla Harris compete and then discuss skills with each other. Karen Paxman, with her warrior bandage works hard and trains with enthusiasm and ego. Daisy does so much talking and giving to others. Hanks, Purcell and Mithen run very hard, always backing up and finding their way to the next contest. Bannan does well below her kness and creates turnovers with pressure, always hunting the ball. Zanker works hard up and down the field, making space and causing her defender to struggle as she leads back into the goal kicking area. Goldy and Mackin have a very professional approach, intention to get better. After most had left the field, they drilled Fitzsimons roving from the ruck of Lauren at stoppage to snap goals. I also noticed Brown working one on one with a coach. She has a beautiful kick, and hands (taking a mark).

Paul Amy who writes extensively on the VFL has tweeted that “Casey Demons top-liners James 'Moose' Munro and Mitch White back for 2023”. However, he also says that of the fringe players, Aidan Quigley is unlikely to go on and versatile tall Bryce Milford is being linked with Port Melbourne.

I wasn't directing outrage at betting organisations nor am I averse to a punt. My beef is with the saturation of all things sporting with gambling ads/odds quarter time, half time etc etc and the reliance of the AFL, SEN etc on the income of betting agencies. It puts them in a compromising position. Ciggies are a good comparison. Tobacco Co's certainly have the marketing budget and could easily (and would be desperate to) replace the betting agency ads in terms of media saturation but they can't for a good reason. What's the difference between kids watching gasper ads versus gambling ads? I also agree with you that for most people it's a bit of fun or makes it interesting, but the level of advertising is ridiculous and there are too many people that 'take it to the next level' (pardon the pun). I'm quite surprised by the amount they get away with in advertising.

Actually think BBB is alot better once the ball hits the ground than many give him credit for. Yes he looks awkward, but in my view he has brilliant footy sense that means even when he misses the mark, he knows where to go to put himself in dangerous positions to stay in the contest and be useful option in chains that end up in goals, whether he's the one kicking them or some deft tap ons to others. Don't think he would have been the leading goal kicker in the league over a period of 3 years if he was a one trick pony and couldn't do stuff off the ground. I also think he's an absolute asset and great teacher for guys like JVR in this respect.

Thanks for the endorsement, WCW – I read your posts, and your opinion is one that I highly value. However, when I read my original post, I’m not sure I was being completely clear and I hope you agree with my intention - I was trying to say that after the murmur of criticism, in my view he gave away opportunities, trying to show unselfishness, when he should have been more “selfish” and kicked the goal. I hope that is what you are agreeing with.

Have you been drinking?

Not a disaster at all if BBB misses the pre xmas training period, given it's only 3 or so weeks these days. Hoping for a better season from him next year.

Ben Brown 2021, managed perfectly

Rubbish Too much Focus on negatives of players c/f to top5/6 recruits. Part of AFL is developing your picks. We have high coaching standards to accomodate up to top45/40 as has been proved. some develop quicker than others and some are like Clarry ready to go. It's a bit of a lottery really and JT has it under cover from all bases. Don't fret we'll get 2 good additions.

The ABC and??? Not many left these days...

I think the AFL will go hard after Pell and give him a lifetime ban even if he doesn't get jail time. They'll want to be seen as taking a strong stand so there will be lots of outrage. They'll also be miffed because they can't control the judicial process. But, they and media entities enjoying the support of betting agencies wont look at the toxicity of their relationship - nothing to see there! That'll be left to media outlets that don't depend on gambling ads for revenue.

As long as the structure doesn't have JVR as the 1st forward, that is important. So we need one of the other big forwards to be there to take defender no 1.

I'm not necessarily advocating Petty as a permanent forward, I just want to know if he is a viable plan B if needed. Currently we don't have enough evidence. I like the look of JVR at Casey and by all means, play him so we know, but I rather he not think we are totally reliant upon him. Let him develop naturally. It then allows Turner to be given his opportunity also. Without injury, it would be hard for him to get picked before May/Lever/Petty but he deserves his chance. There is such a thing as being too safe. We need the flexibility when required, as it will be.

i'm already on the list bro, making me debut on QB was something special till that pies bloke smashed my face in

Whoops, totally forgot about TMac!! (my bad)

…………………and / or TMac.

Let's move the backs to the forward line and then when our new backs aren't stopping goals we send fritch jvr and Grundy to the back line. We then play bbb in the ruck because he isn't kicking goals and leave Max forward.

Either way, during the season we need to find out over several games if Petty can play forward and Turner can hold down a key back position. The beauty being this can happen in the same games. Let's not wait until the last 5 minutes of the season again.

From 9 mins 40 secs https://twitter.com/1116sen/status/1592641474721886208?s=20&t=6lSai-cpluvyQmFXEvE-gQhttps://twitter.com/1116sen/status/1592641474721886208?s=20&t=6lSai-cpluvyQmFXEvE-gQ

How does he fit in with Grundy/Gawny scenario? Admittedly both G's are nearer the end of their careers than the start but both would have at least 2/3 years Brodie 5 possibly. Can Barrett play forward better than either star ruck? DD any thoughts?

Love your confidence LH.

LH I like your last paragraph but Pandora's Box was opened some years ago and the evil is out and won't be put back in. The upside is that with good governance this was exposed.

They do the entire 1st round on night one. They just make a big deal about the top 10.

We can't have it both ways. We can't complain it's a "midfielder's medal" and then complain again when a key forward who kicks four goals outpolls a midfielder.

Not from insider trading that’s for sure.!!

From Fox: "... the Herald Sun also reports two games where Pell was an emergency have received scrutiny". "Pell was the emergency umpire in the Collingwood-Melbourne Queen’s Birthday game in Round 13, where Brody Mihocek was the surprise three-vote getter, ahead of Neale Daniher Trophy winner Clayton Oliver and the impressive Mason Cox. Pell was also the emergency umpire in the St Kilda-Sydney game in Round 23, where the Saints became the first team in 16 years to lose yet poll all six votes. Dan Hannebery, in what is likely to be his final AFL match, polled the three". The 3-vote winners in those two games would have been hard to predict as they surprised most people.

Pell is in real trouble. It wasn't a momentary lapse. The Age is reporting that the bets-were-allegedly-laid-on-more-than-10-matches-michael-pell-umpired. Can't see him ever umpiring again. And if convicted I hope he has a 'day job' that won't be affected.

Piece of cake!

Agree, but then I'd actually like to see that done too on occasion. If we're behind early in the last and need to kick a bunch of goals to get back in the game with a forward line that's struggled to kick goals all game, then I think pinch hitting either of these guys up forward would be worth a shot. I recall that game 2020 (against Freo I think) when we through May forward, he kicked a succession of goals and we nearly pinched the game back. Maysie can be an absolute weapon on his day up forward. Would have got us into finals that year had we got over the line. But overall I agree that Petty to FF is too much robbing Peter to pay Paul. We'd only be that injury to May away from swinging Petty back down the backline and at the same time taking away or key forward and destabilize both ends of the ground. Disco could be a solid option down back one day, but I'd be very surprised if he's close to Petty and May's standard just yet - give the guy a few years to build his game and body like we did with Petty.

However many picks the 1st round is. The rest are done the next night.

They fell victim to one of the classic blunders. The first, of course, is never get into a land war in Asia. The other is, never win against a betting agency.

"Awright boys, time for the votes. Whaddya reckon?" (silence) "Matt? Leigh?" "E. Yeo 3 votes." "Dean, the Eagles weren't even playing. And you weren't on the ground. How did you get in here? The door's supposed to be locked! Go on, [censored] off. Matt, who do you think played well?" "I dunno. Most of the game was down the other end from me." "Leigh, what about you?" "I dunno. They players all look the same to me. What do you reckon?" "I dunno either. It moves so fast, I dunno what's going on most of the time." (silence) "Well, we can't sit here all night. What are we gunna do?" "We could look at the stats sheet." "Great idea ... lemme see ... Tom Mitchell 40 possies! Well that's your 3 right there." "Did Cripps play?" "Nah, he played last night ... good idea, but ... hey, it says here someone kicked 6 goals." "A mid?" "No, a ... um ... what's the word? Four ... fore ... foreman ..." "So not a mid?" "You're right. One vote only." "Who played on Mitchell?" "Christ. Was it ... Pendlebury?" "I dunno. Come on, give him the 2 and let's get out of here." "S. Pendlebury 2 votes. Jeez, that was easier than I thought. Crack open the beers."

Colour me shocked. One of the two games that was red-flagged was Melb Coll on QB Magpies forward Brody Mihocek was the surprise winner of the three votes on Brownlow Medal night with his 16 disposals and four goals edging out Demons superstar Clayton Oliver who on the day was awarded the Neale Daniher Trophy for his 43-possession game.

Problem is, illegal bookmaking is international. Victoria, or any Australian police force, won't be able to prevent it. I repeat: It's much safer to have legal bookmaking with the bookies monitoring for problems.

actually it is joshua! 😂 🤣 😆

I feel like the club knows Brown is only capable of 12-14 games a year now. I’m using this assumption to fuel my theory that Petty will play as a forward in 2023.

Or Josh Schache* surprises everyone and becomes a real KPF option. *Is that spelled correctly or in the great tradition of Demonland, have I stuffed up a player's surname completely?

After a point against, he kicks out to the left to the pack and when going forward, he bombs it in to the left pocket boundary.