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Early to mid 20’s is a steal

I just want to point out some stats that show this is false. This year, Geelong used 35 players to our 33. The 15 Melbourne players who played the most games played an average of 22.8 games each.The 15 Geelong players who played the most games played an average of 23.7 games each. Make it the top 22 games played and the stat is 21.3 vs 22.3. Take out the extra game (grand final) and their top players played the same games as ours No matter how you dice it. No extra resting, no more spread of players. Their 13 players outside of the top 22 games played averaged 6.5 games each (bumped up by Jack Henry with 17). Our 11 played 7.5 each. In fact our 11 played 99 games to their 13s 84. So we gave more games to players outside the core 22 than Geelong did.

Guys. There are a number of shockingly negative, dumb posters on this board. The worst thing about their posts is when multiple posters reply to them telling them that they are wrong or dumb. It makes reading the threads more annoying for the rest of us. Let them say what they want and move on.

Gotta change the contracts for first rounder draftees. The top kids get drafted to the struggling clubs and want to leave straight away. A number one pick leaving after one season is not good for the game.

This is rubbish. A bunch of loud angry people here wanted him gone. And it's pretty clear that those people are reactive and not analytical, with the only common detraction from Goodwin being that he doesn't throw players around into random positions as a "plan B", which is some kind of weird 80s nostalgia because it simply doesn't happen at any club.

Hear me out on this one. If there was any justice in the world Melbourne would somehow end up with selection three in this year’s draft after trading Luke Jackson who we picked with #3 in 2019. I first came across the name of this Wesley College (Glen Waverley campus) student when the Victorian Under 15 schoolboys squad was announced in mid 2019. Others in the squad were Will Ashcroft and George Wardlaw, who I knew about from my grandson’s local competition but there were also players like Jhye Clark, Blake Drury, Harry Flynn (unfortunately injured for most of 2022) Cooper Harvey, Matthew Jefferson, Noah Long, Paul Pascu and Jonti Schuback who have all made a mark at NAB League and/or National Championships level and will be discussed at length until the draft at the end of next month. It didn’t matter who I spoke with, the name “Elijah Tsatas” was foremost in the minds of the good judges at this level of football. I knew how good a footballer Wardlaw was already and had heard about Ashcroft but for Tsatas to be ranked ahead of them, meant that he had to be something very special. We didn’t see much of him this year because injury hampered his season but … we saw him last week for Vic Metro and he’s just won the best and fairest at the Oakleigh Chargers off the back of playing only five games so I would say that all of the promise he showed in that pre Covid19 period, is still very much in place. He’s categorized as a midfielder but he’s not an inside bull like his Oakleigh teammate Wardlaw, might not accumulate as much Ashcroft and isn’t your key position prospect like Cadman but my vote goes with Tsatas. We Demon fans have been spoiled over the years by the sight of skillful players running up and down the wings at the MCG - Dixon, McLean, Adams, Alves, Flower, Tingay and Langdon - and (yes, it’s a big statement) I have a feeling that this kid would not look out of place among that lot! And the jumper number 2 is sitting in the cupboard waiting for someone fit to wear it over the next decade or so. Okay - that’s my early October pipedream.

Give ‘em pick 26

One of the great things about the Dees list management team is that they are fair and reasonable. They know what they want and pay fair value which is why they get deals done. If you hold a team over a barrel then it bites you in the [censored] down the track.

weak? its what he gets paid to do. If GWS have told him he will play senior football on more $$ than what dees are offering then good on him for finding that opportunity.

Have to agree. Both are bottom 6 players, the very players we need to replace to get better as a team. Yet when the club goes about doing it, some bemoan it.

I'm on record wanting to keep Toby. With his speed and endurance, if he can overcome his fumbly tendency to spend it before he's got it, then he can become a very good player. And at 21 there's a chance he can. But I don't want to get into a bidding war with GWS who, with Taranto, Hopper, Bruhn and Hill all leaving, can offer him more opportunity. People need to keep perspective, we're losing Jayden and Toby, but we signed Clarrie and Angus. People also need to be realistic on the trade value. We'll get what Collingwood gives GWS for Hill, probably 42, 47 or 48. So it's really only cap and list space unfortunately.

This is the ramifications of depth players looking for more opportunities. Bedford had a run of games and did show enough. He showed glimpses but does not find enough of it and is a very average kick. I’d have Kozzie, Spargs and ANB before him any day of the week. The theory of Goodwin playing favs is completely false.

Language is important. And the 'felt' experience of Jayden is true for him. If he felt pushed out then that is a real experience, feeling angry, feeling sad. However, I'd imagine the conversation didn't go like 'Jayden, we're pushing you out'. The FD role is to perpetually improve the list, that is their intention, even with good servants, and even with people that the supporters like. Nonetheless, I am sure clear and concise information was given to Jayden (as it fits in with the culture of respect and transparency) as to why it would be good for him to explore options (as I am sure his manager was already doing this). Overall this is a little vignette of when a club is pushing to remain top 4 for a few years to come. The trade off between being loyal to incumbents and seeking to improving lists, whilst understanding that incumbents have a right to seek greater security, or greater pleasure in roles, or role clarity elsewhere if they can. Clearly the FD see Jayden's deficits as a bigger threat to potential premiership success than his assets. I'd also argue that if Jayden was on the list for another year, and happened to have Bowey or someone is surpass him. Then he may be languising in the 2's and thus miss out on an opportunity to be on a list after that. So if we get all Brene Brown - 'being clear, is being kind' - and it's actually a compassionate and humanistic act to give him that information for him to choose to seek opportunities elsewhere.

Played 7 full games this year so posters saying he didn’t get a chance is not correct. Showed some real flashes of quality but was anonymous for large stretches of those games. Disposal could be very wayward as well. Definitely good enough to play in an AFL team so I don’t blame him for taking the opportunity to go to GWS. I wish him well.

Maybe we can swap Bedford and 32 for 21. Then 21 to Pies for Grundy

Some supporters would be better off supporting the individual that plays rather than the club they play for. Tough business being an AFL club. And if we're being brutally honest, we were prepared to give him an offer based on his output to date which has been inconsistent at best. All the best at West Coast, let's add to this list now.

Good coaching move putting, Goldy and Heath in the centre to stop Freo's clearances in the last quarter. Generally good players across the board, West, Hore and Purcell when it was needed, Gay down back, Hanks and Mithen all match, Taylor and Zanker swapping roles with each other makes for difficult match ups. Some smart players on our team, a few that are developing, and some that are "nearly". Keep building Dees.

Must you complain about everything?

This line of argument is infuriating. We perform well - it’s everyone other than Goodwin. We perform poorly - it’s all Goodwin’s fault. Neither is true. The argument only serves to highlight bias.

On media reports we rated him very highly and the three year contract has been on the table for a long time. It looks more like we can't give him confidence of getting games whereas other clubs can. I think it has a bit to do with our game plan. Bedford's string of senior games was when we experimented with an extra small fwd and one less medium/tall. That experimented lasted about a month or so then he lost his spot.

It's not something we had to worry about for a good number of years but part of having a decent team is losing players who seek better opportunities. Tigers lost the likes of Dan Butler, Brandon Ellis (premiership players), Jack Higgins & Mab Chol. All sought the chance to play more senior footy. The longer we sustain any level of success, the more of these types we'll lose.

WorkSafe are now involved worksafe-probes-hawthorn-amid-racism-allegations They AFL will now have three 'reports' to fight 'rear guard' actions on if it doesn't get its 'panel' together very quickly. They have completely lost control of this. They can't shape the agenda, the optics nor the outcomes. Which is probably a good thing. Too much manipulation of 'negative' news in the past.

Hang on… Did your second paragraph just condemn your first paragraph? Its that kind of efficient self-owning that I have come to appreciate. Kudos!

Or we've tabelled 3 years at money commensurate to where he sits on our list: no. 20-28. While GWS tabelled a 3 year deal at money that has him 10-20 on their list and he is mad not to take it? Some would say that's pushing out but I think it's just pragmatic list management.

This is really disappointing to me and in a way doesn't make sense. We're happy to push out Jayden Hunt but then resign Joel Smith to a bloody 2 year deal who's body is quite fragile. At worse, Jayden Hunt would still be solid depth next year.

Hunt always had a real crack, and seemed like a great clubman. He never quite seemed to recapture the form he showed before getting knocked out in a crows game. Good luck to him. His footy was definitely better than his drawing though 😂:

Just total garbage.

You are quite comfortably one of the worst posters on Demonland. Congratulations, Big Brain. Let's lock in an untried senior assistant to take over from our 2021 premiership coach. This sort of nonsense belongs on Facebook.

Bedford has a lot of potential. It should be developed at the Dees! I would be both [censored] and sad if we lose this bloke!

There’s an awful lot of people who seem to love to criticise everything the club does. We don’t turn over the list! No one wants to come to us! Why are we allowing this player to leave! Why are we recruiting that guy! Have a little faith. Our winning percentage over the last few years is insanely good, and we have an excellent track record of recruiting and trading well. I honestly don’t know how some of you survived as Melbourne supporters. This is the best team, and club culture, I’ve seen in my lifetime.

They dropped him because he breached team rules and his form was bad. Welcome to the big league little boy. The world does not revolve around you and it won’t be any easier at Port These 18 year olds make more money than most of us can ever dream of, yet they can’t handle the smallest hurdle.

How did they treat him poorly? He was arguing with senior players on the field. He breached team rules and buggered off home without telling them. They invested pick one in him and he’s shown not an ounce of respect for them. Yes they are a hot mess. Guess what, so are 99% of clubs who hold pick one each year.

The whole "no right of reply" thing is rubbish. It's already been clarified how much opportunity they were given before the article was published, and there's been countless articles and press releases since then from Fagan, Clarkson, Kennett etc.

Ssh, we may be interested in Finn Callahan, who we looked at in his draft year, but he went far too early for us and he was a Dees supporter.

GWS will give 21 for Bedford and 33?? Where do we sign!!!!????

People are often seduced by the number 1 draft pick. I’d much prefer 2 first rounders over the number 1 pick. Once one of the picks was within 7. the list of underperforming number 1 picks is long. Two picks increases the odds of grabbing at least one gun. i personally would not agree to the above trade

i can't believe this thread has made it the last 4 pages without any mention of Laurie, was rated as highly as bowey when drafted, has the composure and kicking skills we like about spargo and hopefully does a better job of finding the footy, but this will give him the opportunity to get some minutes and push into the side, i realise he's not exactly a like for like with toby but a small forward is a small forward is a small forward and this will present him some more opportunities in '23

Bloody hell picket, are you on the juice early or still [censored] from last night?

The less control the AFL have over the investigation / process the better. Sports governing bodies the world over will always prioritise "brand protection" above all else and the ALF are no different. A very serious topic so don't want to trivialise in any way, but i'm quite looking forward to watching the AFL suits and the HFC squirm

I’m not going to get into it but he was used as sub 7 games in a row, unused in a few of them from memory. It is a case of depth players looking for more opportunities but he should have been given more, considering our dysfunctional forward line methods and injuries, we needed to rejuvenate it and we needed crumbers. You can’t just leave players in the VFL and not get games into them (see others). The Cats found a way. Goodwin most certainly has a history of playing favourites and that was very evident this year. Goodluck to him, may or may not make it, but it’s another role we have to fill I think (indigenous evasive forward craft). And our whole side is full of average kicks, Bedfords disp efficiency is in the top 8 of the club at 78%. Also, the club obviously rated him if the rumour is correct that we offered him a 3yr deal. Best of luck to him, seems like a nice kid as well.

Disappointed he is going as I love his offensive and defensive speed but I would not be 100% he would be nailing a starting 22 spot next year. To my understanding we offered him a multi year deal and he has chosen another offer where he must also be more confident of getting AFL games. It’s not like we have chosen to give his list spot to another (which appears to be the Hunt scenario). This is Bedford choosing another path. I wish him all the best.

Based on what evidence?

And you're not far behind, Abysmal.

yup just read this on twitter to, sad loss. Time for Chandler to get his chance, and develop Andy Moniz-Wakefield in the VFL

Love it when someone does the research and we read the facts. I appreciated this post

Why would we table 3 years then? Unlike Hunt who I believe we pushed, I think we wanted to keep Toby but it came down to lack of opportunities. We couldn’t promise him a regular game at senior level and that’s obviously what he wants.

You are a fool. All he did was win a flag? Remember the Saints with their great list and Ross Lyon and others could not get it done. Stick the journey and Goody will deliver us at least one more flag. You know Yze was our midfield coach this year too yeah? You can’t credit him with helping us win the flag and then ignore that he was part of our coaching team this year too

Shirley, you can't be serious?

It’s a disappointing result for mine, but one I completely understand. You can’t continue to not reward players. He’s certainly good enough to play senior footy and yet we gave him a 7 week run as a sub with 10 active minutes on the field. Deserves better. I would rather keep him than Melksham for another year, but I understand these aren’t really the choices we make.

Couldn’t agree more and personally I prefer to wait for the facts to come out prior to making judgement or commenting on these matters. Here though, we have the same old Demonland know it all’s casting aspersions and making judgements without knowing any of the facts.