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We have Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw and Salem all signed up for at least 5 years, with the first two signed up even longer. That's the period we need to be looking at for our success. Whilst Oliver and Petracca are on the list, we are a chance at winning the flag. With Max still around we would be near-favourites. We should be maximising our ability to win flags over the next 6 years or so, whilst we have our best players playing their best footy. If that means that we have a moderately bad team after Petracca and Oliver retire, then so be it. The difference between finishing 10th and 16th in 2030 is not really important.

Depth is an illusion...just saying. You never can cover your top end talent. We do it as well as any but you are always going to get lesser otherwise that replacement would be a regular. As for age profile...the AFL draft system is set up to make it impossible to have a balanced list. Why do you think Richmond is on the wane, Hawthorn have dropped back and Geelong are aged pensioners. The Cat's have worked the system better than anyone and might just grab the reward this year but they're one Cameron hamstring off tears. This is why we need to make the most of the next couple of years...

Very soon we will have an age profile and quality gap in our list of 18-22 year olds which will become a gap in the 23-26 age group and so on. We have players in that age group but not many have found a way to break into the team and only a couple have prospects of doing so in the next year or two. So quantity is ok but quality is a ? This is happening while we have list deficiencies in critical positions. In 2-3 years quite a few of our stars will be approaching or over 30. Many players go on to play well after 30 but how do we replace the quality of so many before their contribution starts to wane? Because we are successful and tend to trade out our future first pick we are unlikely to have access to the top dozen or so players in each draft. And we are unlikely to trade out our best players as they are on long-term deals. Our list will age rapidly. To some this may not matter as 'we are in the premiership window' with a star midfield, defence etc. however if we don't start getting access to the pointy end of the draft I'm not sure we can sustain finals participation/be in contention for flags in the latter part of this decade. As much as Taylor is a star he needs picks to work with to keep our list age/quality profile balanced and I'm not sure where pointy end draft picks are coming from in the next 3-4 years.

Mate, if Jacko goes, which we’re hearing as of yesterday is still extremely likely, then Grundy will be a Demon. There are a couple of others that I’ll let you know about as soon as it’s appropriate.

Well not useless. Maybe we should make it known, that the highest % of members that go to the footy of all Victorian Clubs are Dees members. Let's get rid of that BS stereotype, that we are all at the snow. Speaking of stereotypes, I acknowledge it is a hard ask for Pies members to get day leave from Her Majesty's Prisons, to go to the footy.

That was one game. After a very good month. Essentially BOG against Carlton without which we would have played Richmond in an EF and I don’t know how that would have gone…

My mail says this is a done deal. Club made the final presentation to Grundy’s mum this week to make sure she doesn’t change his mind. From all reports both Alan Richardson and Perty had training shorts on at the meeting to sweeten the deal for Mrs Grundy. She’s on board. Perty has lovely pins.

No

I have a psychotic problem for crowd sizes lol. I am an AFL member with Melbourne club support so I could see what was sold in the club members on sale originally and the AFL on sale. I am also an MCC member so I can see what was available there even though I hate sitting there for AFL games coz I cant lose my [censored] with Melbourne without getting thrown out the joint, Then I follow what has gone on sale in general public areas about 3 times a day. I thought last week would be 77K so wasn't too far off,

Your head hurting means that at least you tried to understand this. My head is fine since I understand a grand total of zilch after “Dees Turnovers vs. League Average” Yep, the thread title. 🥴

Seriously, just roll the dice Goodwin and stop being so safe. JVR will provide a contest in the air but more importantly he will at ground level too. Bowey played half forward a heap through his unders year, he can be given Spargo's role. Brings high energy, pressure and skill to a half forwardline. We know Goody won't drop ANB even after his performance warrants a demotion. JVR for Melksham, Bowey for Spargo. At least the fans will have something to get excited about and could drag more supporters along to what looks like will be an underwhelming crowd from us. JVR will breathe life into the group and bring a new energy in. Be bold Goodwin. Your 'method' has been found wanting this year and clearly we're not bringing the same level of consistency for our game to be firing on all cylinders. Just give us something new and something to get up and about for.

Those critical of the list not being turned over prior to the 22 season would be wise to remember that season 20 and 21 were effectively wiped out at a lot of levels. It was a much more considered decision to work with what you’ve got rather than bring in what hasn’t had consistent games for 2 years. Things return to normal this year, so we will see more informed decisions made.

Agree wholeheartedly. This is why the narrative of wasting a 1st round pick on a 29 year old ruckman just spells disaster for me from a list demographic point of view. Whilst our starting midfield is of high end talent, there is a significant drop in depth from that 26/27 years age bracket and below. Petracca, Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw is obviously our midfield set up that'll keep us going for the next 2-3 years. After that there is a significant drop in depth coming through in my opinion. Sparrow has been underwhelming for me this year and I only see him as an honest battler moving forward. He's the only young player that is usually given fair bit of midfield minutes. Other then that I don't see where the next wave of talent is coming through from a midfield perspective. I reckon topping up our midfield pool with elite junior talent is right up there as a big need for us on equal with getting some key forward depth. My other concern is Goodwins reluctance in being able to introduce fresh players or regenerate team selections along the way. We've had 3 debutants in two years. Collingwood have had 6 alone this year. Our forward line has been an absolute mess mostly the 2nd half of the year and his unwillingness to give the likes of JVR, Laurie and Chandler a go to try mix things up a touch is concerning. I was always in the belief that Goodwin has always been about rewarding form at VFL level but that hasn't been the case at all. His continued persistence of the likes of Weideman and Melksham ahead of others who have been in far better form throughout the year, who whilst Melky has been okay prior to the Sydney game is clearly not in our future plans moving forward. I think the form of guys like Sparrow, ANB and Spargo to a degree have been inconsistent throughout the year. I get that Goody is wanting throw all his faith on the same blokes that won him a flag but when teams have spent all summer examining and studying our game plan right to the fine tooth comb then of course you're going to get losses like we have this year when our team selections and game plan gets stale and not tweaked. I really do hope our list doesn't get Ross Lyon'd in the near future....

How much did you drink on the flight Fergus??

🤔 we did.

Attention: C. Wilson

If Watts was recruited as an 18 years old in the current era, he would have most likely turned into a star of the comp IMO.

It is seriously dumb list management to not be turning over a minimum of 5-6 players each year. What is the point of retaining guys like Baker and Chandler when they are clearly not in the coach's plans? Let alone having a guy like Smith spending more time in rehab than on the field each year. Our depth is nowhere near as good as it is made out to be by some, and we need to keep looking for new talent, particularly in the forward line. With so many of our players currently in the 26 - 27 age bracket, we become a very old team very quickly otherwise.

I know the 2022 AFL Season isn't over for us yet. But I thought it would be worthwhile giving a progress report of the Melbourne Football Club's Strategic Plan for 2020-2023. Especially as we had a few lofty goals that we have now achieved. DEMON GOALS, 2020-23 1. Play AFL and AFLW finals each year, win at least one AFL and AFLW flag. - Besides 2020 we have been doing this and making the finals in both AFL and AFLW. We also have won (finally!) an AFL Premiership in 2021 and came close to winning an AFLW Premiership last season. 2. Eliminate debt, aggregate $4 million profit over 4 years, $30-million plus of income-producing assets. - As far as I know debt has been almost eliminated and we are heading in the right direction regarding assets. 3. Inspire excellence, attract new talent. - I definitely think we have begun doing that getting Adem Yze back at the club and Mark "Choco" Williams. 4. 75,000 members (from 52,000 in 2019), MCG home game average crowds of 50,000-plus. - Not sure on the average of 50,000+ crowds at the MCG but we are on the way to getting 75,000 members and currently have 66,000+ members as of 2022. 5. Finish high-performance facility at Casey Fields, start construction of new Melbourne home base facility with a social club, aiming to be ‘‘within walking distance of the MCG’’. - We have had the facility at Casey Fields completed and got the oval expanded at Gosch's Paddock. We now just need to get the home base facility and social club constructed. In this regard, you gotta say Melbourne Football Club's Strategic Plan for 2020-2023 has achieved most of it's goals. If you were to grade the success I would say the mark of a B or even a B+ for CEO Gary Pert and the Melbourne Demons Board would be a fair assessment. Just gotta get that home base facility and social club built! That will be the big challenge! Nevertheless, breaking our 57 year Premiership drought in the AFL and becoming 2021 Premiers was the number 1# achievement for the Melbourne Football Club. Just gotta win a few more Flags now! Feel free to let me know your own thoughts on this assessment of the performance of the Melbourne Football Club in implementing it's current Strategic Plan for 2020-2023, which I assume they are still following?

My point is it's not over and if we beat Brisbane, we're a big shot against Geelong...

Re-watched the second half last night and I was pleasantly surprised to remember that we were competitive until about half way through the third quarter and then really struggled. Indeed, we were ahead on the tackle count well into the third quarter But my sense was—but others at the ground would know better—that it wasn’t everyone that was struggling in the last third but mostly the centre/mid-field cohort, particularly Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes, Jackson and obviously Petracca. These players were often slow/late to effect a spoil, failed to provide overlap run, were caught ball watching, and struggled to defend and tackle. They certainly did not look like they were running over the top of the ground and hitting their peak in terms of performance (unlike round 23). They can’t have suddenly lost the fitness levels they possessed in round 23, so some key alternative explanations are: a) they went too hard last week and got the bye training schedule wrong (still a fitness variable, but a short term one) b) more of the team were effected by gastro than the club has let on (a health/fitness variable) c) there were knock-on effects from Petracca’s injury in that others in the middle had to compensate for his poor movement and thus they ran out steam (a mid-game fitness variable) c) the mid-field group under-estimated the Swans and/or were deflated by incidents like Harmes giving away 50m, the Melksham-Spargo goal debacle, Melksham and Gawn’s poor goal kicking when it mattered, etc which gave them a feeling that nothing was going right on the night (more an attitudinal variable, but one that may have compounded the above) When I make this list, it forces me to realise that they’re all short-term variables that can be remedied, and quickly. And therefore I’m quietly confident that we’ll see a different performance on Friday and in the PF. That is not to say that there aren’t other issues (we need another tall forward, I still feel like we’re waiting for the Choco skill improvement, etc) but they are medium-long-term improvements and they can’t explain the difference in performance between round 23 and the QF. Perhaps not so “quietly confident” given I’m posting this on demonland 😁

I’m in no position to speculate on the Pick exchanges that will happen if Brodie ends up at the Dees, suffice to say that the Pick will be influenced on the salary that the Pies pay & what Picks the Dees actually end up with. My gut feeling, and it is only that, is that if the Pies pay $300 for the entire duration of the contract, then they would be wanting a Pick 14 to 18, which I think would be about right given all the facts, including the fact that Brodie believes he will be in great physical condition come Round 1 next year. Dees are very fair & reasonable to deal with, so history suggests they’re unlikely to offer something unreasonable, eg their 2nd Rounder just because Collingwood are keen to make the trade and there are no other suitors at this time. Dees might like to offer next year’s 1st Rounder, however, Pies will be keen for something this year to help a couple of trades they want to do.

@Smokey - QD comes home and ritualistically opens 'Land to see if Jackson has signed. Thread is on second board. QD thinks, "I'll fix that."

The Title says it all.....Useless AFL stats. I assume the home game attendance is the average over the season. That of course is influenced by who you play. A home game against Collingwood for example boosts the average considerably. A home game against GC does the opposite. Geelong stadium being redeveloped with only 20K that can get in, so that drops them down considerably. North & Hawthorn play games in Tassie at a ground with 20K capacity. Memberships? We all know these numbers are fudged. Saints $1 membership last year was the classic. Does anyone really believe North have 50K members when only 9K for both sides turn up for a home game against Melbourne? As for the supporters statistics. Every year the same survey comes out with the same fundamental error. If you ask a regular Joe Blow in NSW which AFL side he supports, the answer will be in all probability Sydney. Then that survey response is translated Australia wide, even if they get zero in all other states. Result, Sydney supposedly have the highest number of supporters. The same scenario would occur if you asked Victorians which Rugby League side they supported. Storm would lead the tally, except no-one in Victoria, SA & WA gives a rats about RL.

Am probably being very negative here but the stat is an incredibly poor reflection of member turnout. Yes we have an average home attendance of 39K but this does not mean that 39K melbourne members attend our home and and away games. I think you will find that 20-25K Melbourne supporters go to every home game and the rest is made up by the other team. Yes there will be an outlier (like flag unfurling, Brisbane on a Thursday night) but this tends to be the case. It stands true to the 70K crowd against Collingwood which we were easily outnumbered close to 2:1 and the Carlton game which was pretty much 1:1 for a 55K crowd. The stat is nice, but does not properly reflect who is actually going to games.

Watts would be a walk up start in our 22 on friday, Schache wouldn't.

Apparently Josh Schache from the Western Bulldogs is "desperate" to play for a new AFL Club. Could we consider him? He's a former number 2# AFL Draft pick from 2015. Originally from the Murray Bushrangers in the TAC Cup and is friends with Clayton Oliver. Even won the Larke Medal at the State Under 18 Championships back in 2015 too. He is 199cms tall and can be played in defence or up forward. Frustratingly, Josh really hasn't "gone on" with his career but a change of environment may do him good? He is still only 25 years old and may be a handy addition to our list? Anyway, I am interested in knowing your thoughts on Josh?

Nice. I thought there was a possibility you worked for ticketek and I was gearing up to hurl some abuse your way once I got it out of you!

Is there like a dummies guide?

Theres a lot of recency bias in your post Tony. Its unbelievably hard for a small fwd to kick 40 goals in a season. Elliot has never kicked 40 goals in a season His highest has been 35 (in 9 seasons) Papley has kicked 40 goals in a season once (in 7 seasons) Stengle has kicked 46 g this season. His highest previously has been 8 in a season (in 4 seasons) Cyril kicked 40 goals in a season twice (in 11 seasons) and is considered one of the greatest ever If Kozzie picket kicks 1 more goal this year he will have kicked 40 goals in a season twice. Kozzie is a ripper. He is 21 yo.

Why is it all on the fitness department? We've continually selected players carrying niggles and soreness, that's on the selection committee. I don't recall many of our injuries being soft tissue ones, more impact related injuries, that's not on the fitness staff at all. Those injuries would clearly have impacted our training ability which in turn obviously effects how we run out games. Highly doubt Griffith is under "extreme pressure".

Hard to judge a career when he's been on the field about 15% of it.

Everyone: don’t look into the training photos too much. Me: 👀

Start with the misspelling of 'demons' perhaps...😉🙂

You couldn't guarantee that JVR would have a good game, but I feel very confident in saying that JVR at the very least, would have a better game than Melk's last one, where he had 5 possies at 20% efficiency. That is one good possie for an entire game and several scoring chances stuffed up, to boot.

You wouldn’t believe it but the phrase “break a leg” is actually a term of encouragement, usually said to one who is about to perform before an audience, but in the case of the Melbourne Football Club, it’s gone a step further and taken the expression literally. The Demons are about to step out onto the MCG in a big semi final match up with one of its finest carrying a broken fibula, albeit of the hairline variety. The stunt is all about bringing "good luck" to the team and let’s face it — after the game against the Swans last week, they need some good luck! And not only do they need luck but in the words of coach Simon Goodwin speaking after Melbourne’s Qualifying Final loss … "We've got to be clear as a club that we need to learn from what we did tonight." It was only two games ago that Melbourne completed its second decisive win for the year over the Brisbane Lions, the fourth in two seasons. On that basis, you would think that this week’s Second Semi Final on Friday night at the MCG against the same opponent minus its number one ruckman is a lay down mizere but it’s not! That would be because of the Demons’ demise under the pressure to the Sydney Swans after quarter time in last week’s Qualifying Final. The team was terrible in leaking goals after turnovers even though it could be argued they were the victims of some cruel momentum turning decisions by the umpires at crucial points in the game. They also had some bad breaks like Christian Petracca injuring his calf muscle and fracturing that fibula as well as a few other assorted ailments but there really are no excuses for the almost complete shutdown of the forward line — Ben Brown kicked a solitary goal, Jake Melksham and Kozzy Pickett only touched the ball five and four times respectively, yet they missed at least four none too difficult chances between them. Alex Neal-Bullen was ineffective and Charlie Spargo could have done better before he got it in the neck. And not for the first time this year, the team failed at the finish with no goals in the final term. With all that said, a 22 point loss doesn’t sound all that bad but the look of it was awful at the end and, without Steven May and Clayton Oliver, it would have been a true bloodbath. So can they turn it around this week against the Brisbane Lions who would be approaching this game with the incentive of overturning two major humiliations heaped on them this year and the bonus of a Preliminary Final berth for doing so? This brings me to the above Simon Goodwin quote about learnings. Melbourne’s forward woes that have underlined its second half of the season (six wins, seven defeats) have been well documented. They recur about once in every two weeks in the form of predictable ball movement into the forward line, dropped marks, turnovers, fumbling and poor kicking for goal. You have to ask yourself why, if the coach says that we have to learn from what we did, that we keep repeating the same mistakes every few weeks with our entries into the forward 50? Why we don’t mix things up a bit more and why we don’t employ different players in the goal front? Well, part of the riddle might be answered on Friday night because it’s quite within the realms of possibility that the decision might be forced. The brains trust could well depart from tradition and play Trac at full forward because it has no choice. Anyway, I’m tipping the Demons to win because, as I mentioned earlier, those forward yips happen every second week and this one’s not one of those second weeks. But watch out the next time they play!!! Melbourne to win by 48 points. THE GAME Melbourne v Brisbane Lions at The MCG, Friday 9 September, 2022 at 7:50pm HEAD TO HEAD * Overall: Melbourne 29 wins, Brisbane Lions 22 wins At The MCG: Melbourne 15 wins, Brisbane 3 wins Last Five Meetings: Melbourne 4 wins, Brisbane Lions 1 win The Coaches: Goodwin 7 wins, Fagan 2 wins * does not include Brisbane Bears or Fitzroy games MEDIA TV live and on demand on Kayo and live on Foxtel. Check your local guides. Radio - check your local guides. LAST TIME THEY MET Melbourne 18.7.115 defeated Brisbane Lions 8.9.57 at The Gabba, Round 23, 2022 Everything went well for the Demons from the opening bounce and the Lions were driven to distraction in front of their home crowd. How do you think they’ll go in front of a hostile crowd of fanatical Demon fans? THE TEAMS MELBOURNE B: C.Salem 3 S.May 1 H.Petty 35 HB: A.Brayshaw 10 J.Lever 8 M.Hibberd 14 C: T.Sparrow 32 C.Oliver 13 E.Langdon 15 HF: J.Melksham 18 M.Gawn 11 J.Harmes 4 F: A.Neal-Bullen 30 B.Fritsch 31 C.Spargo 9 Foll: L.Jackson 6 J.Viney 7 C.Petracca 5 I/C: B.Brown 50 J.Hunt 29 K.Pickett 36 T.Rivers 24 Sub: J.Smith 44 Emerg: T.Bedford 12 J.Bowey 17 J.Van Rooyen 21 No change BRISBANE LIONS B: D.Gardiner 27 D.McStay 25 D.Rich 10 HB: B.Starcevich 37 H.Andrews 31 K.Coleman 18 C: Z.Bailey 33 J.Berry 7 C.Ah Chee 4 HF: D.Zorko 15 E.Hipwood 30 L.McCarthy 11 F: J.Payne 40 T.Fullarton 21 3 C.Cameron 23 Foll: D.Fort 32 46 L.Neale 9 H.McCluggage 6 I/C: N.Answerth 43 C.Rayner 16 D.Robertson 2 D.Wilmot 44 Emerg: K.Lohmann 1Emerg: R.Lester 35 K.Lohmann 1 R.Mathieson 36 J.Prior 20 In: N.Answerth D.Fort T.Fullarton C.Rayner Out: J.Daniher (personal reasons) O.McInerney (ill) R.Mathieson (omitted) J. Prior (omitted) M.Robinson (omitted) Injury List: First Semi Final Christian Petracca - Calf | Available Clayton Oliver - Face | Available Bayley Fritsch - Knee | Available Andy Moniz-Wakefield - Groin | Available Charlie Spargo - Throat | Test James Jordon - Foot | 2 Weeks

No.

My Yr 12 English teacher used to say "Thinking hurts, that's why no-one does it".

Not only that but it beings energy and life into the team. Jake Bowey last year was a perfect example.

For me, this is like when I look up a word to see the meaning but I need a meaning for that meaning.

Some commentary with the diagrams would help. In isolation do the diagrams mean much? It would be more useful if there was a ranking of teams vs the average. I mean bottom teams are going to turn it over a lot more than top teams so comparison to just the average is of limited use, imv. And to balance the story, what about turnovers 'won'...

All 4 teams that make a prelim go into a GF ballot before the prelim, was the same for us in 2018.

Keeping the likes of Mitch Brown and Baker for another year after playing only a single game last year was utterly bizarre list manager. Either those spots should have been used on a developing tall either a ruckman or key forward.

Great post Nairobi_Demon. Always appreciate the people that watch the game back and provide these insights, I'm more the kind of person that burns the tape and never wants to watch it again after a loss like that 😝. Much appreciated!

I live overseas so I’m pretty sure nothing changes for me assuming watchafl is still the same. The best thing will be that fox will have their own commentary teams for every game instead of the channel 7 bozos.

Coupla things. 1. Why would we help Collingwood relieve salary cap space? Keep the pressure up both on field and off. They wanna give De Goey 3.2M or whatever ... Just let 'em keep digging. 2. Haven't heard a peep from either Jackson or Grundy. These media parasites with nothing better to do than make sheet up seem to think they're league wide list managers.

Weight of traffic through the Langdon wing and left forward pocket would mean we turn it over there more. Interesting to see right half forward flank randomly stick out though. Unsure if that’s due to failed switch or corridor movement when we try to run and gun if we’ve got the chance… Our predictable game style has its pros and cons. We know where we’ll turn it over if it happens and give ourselves a chance to setup and defend it well. On the other hand if we’re not playing well/opposition have a solid strategy in place then we just get burnt on rebound. Those numbers backup the eye test and probably show we need to have a hit more variety in offense, even if it using both sides of the ground more evenly.