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Prelim 87 GF 88 Merger game plus many more I am too traumatised to recall A severe mauling on Sat will only go a small way to redressing the balance BURY THEM DEMONS

They’ve lost all hope.

So, logically, you’d have to think a hard 6 week lockdown for anyone who barracks for either of those 2 teams is the only solution. It’s for the good of the nation.

Sorry if I have stolen someone else's thunder with this thread but there is a certain amount of schadenfreude reading through the Hawthorn Big Footy site. Fair to say not much optimism there... We'll play long and slow along the boundary as we have all season and did against them earlier in the year so as to turn it into a defensive, contested game. We try and play through the middle and kick to forwards who lead is, in simple ways, how you win, but at the same time, if Melbourne aren't asleep like Sydney were against us, the risk is they bury us on turnovers from our lack of skills and their superior defensive unit. I assume we play the 22 fit players left on our list. Maybe let them choose where they want to play. No CJ, Day, Sicily, Scrimshaw, Impey, Wingard, Gunston. Coach who has been told he is not the man to take us forward. Cold, wet weather forecast. Against the best team in the comp. Twilight timeslot. In a pandemic. Well done if you're going this week. Jaeger and Kosi must be in doubt. Both looked lame. I simply can't see how we'll win this game, we'll get smashed in the ruck, smashed in the midfield, don't have anyone to seriously trouble May and Lever even when we do get it forward and lots of our rebounding intercept defenders are injured. Praying we only lose by 8 goals as opposed to something really disastrous. If Sean Darcy can get 25 possessions and 9 marks imagine what Gawn will do! It's going to be an absolute blood bath A COVID outbreak and resultant postponement of the match is probably the best we can hope for with this one The only question in this one is, will be lose by more goals than I drink beers for the day ? Our mids should be aiming for Gawn with every kick. We might only hit him once or twice that way This is the least I am looking forward to a game all year. I just hope that Melbourne go through the motions for a 50 point win as opposed to actually giving a fu**... that would be a scary scenario. Unfortunately though if it’s in MItchell's hands it will be in opposition hands pretty soon thereafter. 1 score involvement from 39 touches is diabolically low impact.

I love it that I have no idea who that is

It takes humans over 20 years to get into Level 2 of the MCC Members. It took Covid just a few days. If that's not a justification for everyone getting vaccinated, I don't know what is.

Some good comments in that bunch, but I think this is the pick...

Sorry Kent, not specifically footy related, but as of Monday I'm double AZ dosed . Not a single symptom. Apart from my recent blood clots. Jokes. I had a runny nose

Please keep politics out of the footy threads.

You also said we'd lose to Essendon and Port. How predictable.

Has it effected your life much. As a result of WA’s tough border policy we have lead a pretty normal life since last June. Businesses not as badly interrupted as our eastern states counterparts. We have been able to attend community footy, kids have gone to school uninterrupted for the best part and played near enough to a full season of sport last year. I think I know which policy I’d prefer to live with

Agree. I hate Kennett.

Did anyone else watch The Round So Far on the AFL website over the weekend? Kane Cornes (yes, I know, but hear me out) highlighted something Gawn did against Port using behind the goals vision: we had a forward 50 stoppage but Gawn left it to sprint out of our forward line to go stand on Dixon, freeing up May to play the last line of defence. Apparently that's something Gawn did that more than once. Just a shout out to our superstar captain who should comfortably collect his fifth AA jacket this year, and deservedly so for doing selfless team stuff like this (alternatively/jointly a shout out to our coaches for getting this sort of stuff to happen).

I think I have kept my cool through the last 18 months however the last two virus outbreaks are beginning to really annoy me. Previous one was from SA and this one from NSW. And the further it goes this looks like it is the result of two groups of people who did not follow the rules. What is that people don’t understand? We are in a pandemic, you could easily get the virus and it kills.

Must be nice to live in an isolated state that enjoys the perks of GST revenue and takes a tiny quota of returned travellers. Enjoy your freedom and thanks for your contribution to Australia.

Interesting to see what's going to happen if the NT closes the border with Victoria before Saturday.

Just when you thought the Geelong Carlton game couldn't get any worse for your health...

Me reading the news today. Anyone else an emotional Covid wreck?

I remember hearing someone talk about this on the radio a few years ago (and again a few months back). Specifically they were talking about the crows (maybe Neil Craig) coming to the realization (because someone tracked him?) that even though Ricchiuto was getting the ball 30 plus times a game and was their best player, in 120 minutes of football he only had the ball in his hands for 2 mins. The comment was that this realization changed football because from that point the crows, and then the rest of the competition, had a much greater emphasis on what was happening for the other 118 minutes. And this shift ushered in the era of all team defensive running and spread that is a fundamental of today's game. And key position players, like forwards, staying in the one area all game for that matter. Which in turn has shifted the game away from one on one battles so many people seem to pine for.

Perhaps. But i reckon in the pies and GWS games the issue was not the forward line, it was that our ball movement from the back half was was too slow and we were not creating any overlap. And we were also not creating any of that swarm pressure that generates so much of scoring when we are on. As i have noted before i reckon this was a function of fatigue, rather than abandoning the game as such, that's to say were no physically able to properly implement the game plan In the Lions game fatigue wasn't an issue. However we were 20 odd points down at half time, and in trouble, in large part due to the fact that we were not generating enough scoring opportunities. A heard a number of players say after that game that we had been too cautious and slow in the first half and Goody had encouraged to get them the ball moving more quickly. It was really noticeable that we did so - we played on more quickly and handballed more aggressively and often. And swamped the Lions. When we play like that, as we did against port for much of the game, opposition defenses often get all out of shape and we get goals out the back like two of traccs goals (or even friiter's long range goal - they had no one at all inside our 50 metre arc when he marked that ball leaving a completely open goal - and he actually had Spargo running toward goal he could have elected to give it to) The other thing i think is worth considering is the idea of what being more attacking. It seems counterintuitive, but perhaps kicking to he pocket IS the more attacking option as it gives us two bites at the shots at goal cherry. First bite is we either mark it in the pocket, it comes to ground and we crumb it or it goes over the boundary and we score form that stoppage. Second bite is the opposition desperately try to clear the zone and dump kick it under pressure and we intercept that kick and come back inside (often with a little 20 metre kick to an open player) for another scoring opportunity. With kicking it to the hotspot this second bite is less likely as it is harder to defend a dump kick from the corridor. Much easier to defend a dump kick from the pocket as as i noted they really only have one option which is down the line and so we can saturate the likely drop zone with players pushing up.

As promised on the podcast here are my rankings of imported players since 1980. The criteria is plucked from thin air. Hopefully I haven't missed anyone. Probably a bit of recency bias at the top but that's what happens when most of the last 40 years have been a disaster. Jeff White Brian Wilson Darren Bennett Brent Moloney Anthony Ingerson Steven May* Clint Bizzell Ed Langdon* Jake Lever* Peter Moore Shane Zantuck Bernie Vince Michael Hibberd* Marcus Seecamp Peter Rohde Brent Crosswell Shaun Smith Jake Melksham* Jeff Garlett Kelvin Templeton Daniel Cross Jordan Lewis Peter Vardy Ben Holland Dom Tyson Jamie Shanahan Sam Frost Paul Johnson Adam Tomlinson* Jeff Hilton Cameron Clayton Steven Clark Byron Pickett David Flintoff Paul Bryce Chris Heffernan Mitch Clark Phil Read Matthew Collins Chris Dawes Tomas Bugg Heritier Lumumba Dean Irving Craig Ellis Michael Pickering Alastair Clarkson Paul Payne Doug Koop Bill Nettlefold Shannon Byrnes James Sellar Greg Doyle Phil Carman Scott Chisholm Craig Turley Dean Chiron Andy Goodwin Ben Kennedy Ben Newton Rod Owen Phil Pinnell Nigel Kol Rodney Wright Harley Bennell Viv Michie Robert Pyman Shannon Motlop Braydon Preuss Craig Nettelbeck Corey Wagner Xavier Tanner James Cook Vin Catoggio Ross Funcke Mitch Brown* Aidan Riley Michael Young Ben Brown* David Rodan Les Parish Darryl Cox David Grant Adrian Campbell Steven Pitt John Meesen Stuart Cameron Gary Moorcroft Nick Carter Nick Pesch Trevor Spencer Kade Kolodjashnij Wayne Henwood Peter Kiel Phil Egan Tom Gillies

Hawks are missing: Wingard, Scrimshaw, Jaith, Impey, Day, Gunston, Sicily, Hardwick Hawks by 2 goals

Agree with all that. The narrative coming out post Anzac eve on the Richmond Bigfooty forum was "Can't wait to play Melbourne in the finals. We'll beat them when the games actually count" and "Kozzie Pickett's got a target on his back in the first qualifying final" I can only hope our supporters won't be as arrogant as Richmonds once we complete our 4peat.

Strange times when I'm more worried about not being allowed to go to the grand final than I am of the demons making it.

Every time we have a lockdown, the press rush out and find some small business owner (or Whiney O'Brien) who tells them how bad it is for business. I wish, just once, a journalist would ask them what dead customers and mass graves are like for business.

Sure, get angry about the virus - but I get just as angry about my fellow citizens who refuse to take it seriously. Whenever I go on the train there's a few people in the carriage not wearing masks. So many of the venues and stores I go to are slack about making visitors use QR codes. The Murdoch scumbags rail against the Premier for implementing life-saving lockdowns. My wife is an emergency department nurse. As one of her colleagues commented to her recently, we've spent the past 18 months putting our lives at risk and clomping around in this cumbersome PPC gear which makes even going to the toilet a chore - all because a few selfish morons can't be arsed following basic health regulations.

Yeah, we don’t have any resources in WA, that could possibly generate any foreign export. ?

#thanksalotNSWyoubunchofarsehats

If they cap the crowd this week then how about they do something about social distancing? Instead of cramming everyone into smaller zones make the entire ground available and have stewards requesting people give distance between the next person. It’s far and away the most baffling thing about how Australia has managed reopening of things.

8 to 10 years ago we’d have had a thread on him up and running in May

Love the comment about their mids aiming for Gawn as this will result in less marks by Max

We need to smash them and send them spiralling towards the wooden spoon.

My Hawks mates don't want to win another game. What they do want is Jason Horne.

Kennett must want to be our President again now that he’s got the chop from the Hawks

On SEN this morning, Kennett got on the blower this morning to wish the MFC luck for this year and hope we win the flag. I suddenly don't mind Hawthorn supporters.

I haVe No IdEA whO U aRE ?? tALkinG AbOUt ? ?

my brother was silly enough to get married at 4.30pm on that famous last Saturday of August in 1987. He and I pretty much took ourselves (as teenagers and younger) to all the games from the mid-70s. Our extended family has been supporting the Demons from before VFL days (ie in the 1800's) - so you can imagine angst this caused. Half the congregation stood as one and cheered in the middle of the wedding when Jason Dunstall kicked the goal at Kardinia Park, and did it again about 3 minutes later when the siren went at Western Oval. Geez it was a good reception too !

Pretty sure that’s why and when I jumped on. Wanted to see if anybody had any hope for any reason that the Dees might have a means or a way to come good. We’re never so happy as when planning for future happiness. One thing that’s absolutely for sure on here is that the humour quotient goes way up when the team is winning. May the humour reign! Great work Andy et al.

It's a tier 2 site. Level 2 MCC Members. Tier 2 means you need to get tested immediately and isolate until you get a negative result. So if anyone on Demonland was at that game, shame on you for wasting your precious life, but also, go get tested!

I definitely see Hunt as a half back, but i think he also as we saw last year, can offer us a different look up forward in short bursts. i think it could be a weapon come finals time

Would be very surprised to see ANB dropped for someone like Melksham. If you listen to how Goody and the other coaches / players talk, its all about playing your role and sacrificing for them team. ANB is critical to our forward line and overall structure due to his ability to run at high speeds all day. While Melksham might be a better player with ball in hand, each would have the ball less than 5% of the total game time - so the pressuring, running etc is more important. Particularly with BBB in the side. I would love to see the 2018 Melksham in this side - but from what we've seen, either he's no longer able to play at this level or the game / game plan has changed. Would love to be proven wrong but would be very surprised if ANB is on the chopping block unless its for someone who can match his running and pressure.

Max has played forward enough this year to provide enough evidence of how Goody, Yze etc assesses those percentages. And on that evidence the answer is no, the percentages don't change enough in our favour to kick it to the hot spot, because they don't' do so even when max is there. Which make sense because even with max there statistically we do not take many contested marks inside 50. The percentages might even favor a kick to the pocket because with max there there is an increased chance that the ball will be at least brought to ground, which is what we want and are set up for. On that, if a defender spoils a marking attempt in the the pocket it would almost never be hit toward the corridor. The first option is hitting it towards the boundary, or if that is not possible at least no worse than directly in from to the pack. Again this is predicable and we can practice it. And when the ball hits the ground in that scenario, it is the defence that is under most pressure. Even the best defenders can panic a bit and try and hack kick it out, or give away a free to one of our smalls. The free and goal Spargo got against Port was the perfect example of the benefits of our system. I reckon one of the strengths of our back six (and helpers like Langdon and Gus) is that they don't often panic. They are quite comfortable working it to a player under less pressure with handballs to work their way out of the defensive 50 and avoid a dump kick. But when that is not possible they are also ok with the dump kick because they are confident of winning the next contest, or if they don't, getting back into shape quickly to protect the re entry kick

Offt mate, i usually agree with you on most things, but pre-draft and early career i thought Trengove was an absolute gun, honestly i think the MFC ruined him, his injuries were imo a result of mismanagement, and his confidence and development were shot by MFC decisions to rush him into the captaincy and poor coaching appointments. I firmly believe if we didn't sack Dean Bailey Jack Trengove would likely be seen in a very different light today

Traditionally Draft Night (and the following day), particularly when we have picks in the Top 10 are our biggest days. Trade week is also a very busy time particularly if we are landing a big fish or offloading someone. Post game is when we've traditionally had issues with the integrity of the server load because so many people are jumping on all at once. Thank you to all the monetary contributors to Demonland who have assisted us over the years. It has allowed us to beef up the computing power of the hamsters running the wheels that keep us online after a loss to a bottom 8 team.

Trengove was an injured gun, not a NQR like Toumpas.

I don't get what the difference is between free-to-air on a Friday night and free-to-air on a Saturday night. Both are equally attractive to me. The worst scheduling is the Saturday twilight "pink women" game this weekend. Ruins the whole idea with the poor timeslot.

Not a chance - I will be super obnoxious during and after our 4peat.

while I was browsing some stats from the game I came across Harrison Petty, how was this for defensive numbers?! 8 intercept marks 12 possessions 91% disposal efficiency 8 1%ers he is really starting to get the job done