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He came third in the 2018 Brownlow because he had 37 possession 3 goal games. Players capable of those sorts of numbers don’t grow on trees. He didn’t finish third in the Brownlow by accident.

He’s a bigger body at 182cm than most of our ‘smalls’ and kicks more goals than them too, he’s also only 23. He and Ellis would be an upgrade on JKH, ANB, Stretch, Wagners, Spargo plus others.

Couple' things. As of this morning, I'm a changed person. I wish to apologise for playing the antagonist on this forum for too long now and will make a conscious effort to either ignore those whom I disagree with or engage with them in a less emotionally-fuelled way. I'll also refrain from using the term 'happy-go-luckies' as much as I enjoy using it. I have more warning points than 'deeluded' has posts now. Sometimes it's easy to forget that we're all supporters of the MFC but with a range of layers that individualise us from each other. The forum is great, it's an escape, informative, provides comedic relief and triggers my annoyances. Thank you and much appreciation to the creators of demonland. With that out of the way, I'd like to lay bare what is in my view the most important off-season I will have witnessed. I understand that sounds rather dramatic and the 'happy-go lu.....' *jokes*. Yes, it's dramatic. But let's think about the state of the club for a minute or two. Let's think about what we've been through since 2007 right up until last year. (2018). * Failed coaches, failed admin, an inability to develop, nurture and pick the right talent, a complete disconnect to the supporter base and no finals. What was/is the result of those failings that we still see today? * A missed generation of supporters, financial troubles, still no real home base, extremely poor and questionable leadership due to a lack of players who have come through the club together which has contributed to the absence of any club culture and has had an extremely negative effect on the 'psyche' of the club the individuals come through the doors. The last point is particularly interesting. Club psyche or belief. This morning, I was listening to SEN with Whately talking to Buckley about 'belief'. About the fact that when Buckley was playing at Collingwood, the list developed a real appetite and positive winning record when playing interstate over a period of time. That then filtered throughout the AFL world and became something that everyone knew, including young draftees that were picked up by Collingwood. It was already embedded in their psyche. The belief that Collingwood 'travelled well'. In a competition whereby the smallest of margins can give a side an advantage, it got me thinking about the MFC. I started thinking about the very real effect our failings have had on the psyche of every young player that has walked through the doors since 2007. It is clear to me that someone like Petracca, Watts or Hogan would have had vastly different experiences had they walked into a big and successful club like Collingwood from the day they were drafted. Experiences that have a profound effect on the psyche and belief of one's self that can absolutely influence whether or not a player can realise their potential. Is it any wonder why a club like Collingwood have continually churned out genuine stars and match winners over the last decade? I think of Jordan De Goey, (a player who went at number 5 in the same draft as Petracca and Brayshaw). More recently, players like Oliver have been relatively unaffected by the feeling of failure that clouded the club for so long and has been able to forge his own path. Gawn similarly has been able to overcome what I used to label 'MFC conditioning'. Every individual is different and has a different make-up and will therefore be influenced more or less by what the outside world is saying. (Outside world being the club our AFL world). The point I'm trying to make here is that part of the unprecedented drop to 17th on the ladder this year has to be in part attributed to what I'm talking about. A very real feeling and belief of Melbourne doing 'Melbourne things'. The "veil of negativity" as Paul Roos would say. You could feel it on the ground, in the stands as a supporter and clearly some of the players played as if it weighed heavily on them. When Melbourne supporters don't show up to a Friday night game against Sydney because we've 'seen it all before', the players feel that absence on the ground. It all has an effect. Go back to last year's elimination final at the G. I was standing in line at gate two of the MCC at 1pm and watched in disbelief at the number of buzzing Melbourne supporters that rolled in over the course of that afternoon. We got 90,000 and how many were Melbourne? The pressure meter that night was at 211 points or something ridiculous and we had but a finger nail of the finals experience Geelong had. The supporters and feeling that the supporters emit can have a huge impact on the way an individual will feel and therefore play. This is why the club can no longer afford to have seasons like we've just had. For both supporters and players. The disengagement is almost immediate from supporters due to our past and they simply won't turn up which creates an enormous negative effect on the club and players on gameday. And as far as players go, if we end up losing one of our 'core' due to unrest, it will further add to the disengagement of the supporters. We have lived through enough rebuilds, high draft picks and promises that we're building a list that will 'come through together'. Goodwin must use this off-season in the right way when it comes to trading. When I look at our greatest weakness as a list, it is skill level and decision making and it concerns me when I don't hear us linked to genuine match-winners and highly skilled players like Martin, Higgins (regardless of age) and even Betts. Langdon in my eyes doesn't fix our problems of delivery inside forward 50. Overlap and gut running is pointless when a team consistently butcher the ball and hand it back to the opposition. I would much rather follow what Geelong did at last years trade period. Target players who give us the best chance at retaining the ball inside 50 and creating scoring opportunities. Our inside 50 numbers this year were very good, what does that tell us? Bad delivery going forward and an inability to lock the ball inside 50. We can completely change the list profile if we're aggressive and bold enough. This is completely make or break for Goodwin and for the club in my view. Apologies for the selfish post.

A winning culture takes precedence over winning a single game. Some sentiment is culture building.

Before injury and being treated like rubbish by Adelaide for not re-signing, Lever was a fantastic defender and would have been up near the best. Quite amazing given his age at the time.

Interesting comment, because I recall Collingwood being extremely interested in Steven May until it became clear he was determined to play for us. There would have been competition for Lever too, if there was ever a question over where he wanted to go. I’d say if anything our recruitment is targeted rather than scattershot, and there’s a healthy dose of media speculation with the big name recruits, and (shock horror) the speculation involves clubs with large supporter bases. You’d almost think that it was based around maximising the click rate...

Never rated the bloke anyway.

I think this game was the most exciting, and ultimately the most depressing, game I have ever watched. I watched it with my now deceased Uncle, and we were both in tears after it. Sad aside - when I said goodbye to him in hospital many years later, his last ever words to me were ... ‘Go the Dees’.

Given the recent article suggesting GWS want in on our pick, this could be the perfect opportunity to go after this guy. He's a free agent next year and if he leaves and the Giant finish a similar position, they may lose him for a pick in this teens. I'd be trying for this year's first rounder and next years for Whitfield. I know there is some risk we finish low next year, but there's also the potential we get back into the top 8 with a better run of injuries and an easier draw. Apparently the Hawks will be applying to the AFL to be allowed to trade their first this year, which they are apparently going to be approved. You just have to show the AFL you know what you are doing with this and they have discretion. If we add this guy onto the wing, along with Langdon and the ball winners of Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes in the middle I think we become a premiership favourite again. Here's hoping we ask the question and make a serious play.

Interesting how we each see things. To me he's none of these.

Best on ground for Adelaide in a Grand Final. The best are at their best in big moments, and many would consider a Grand Final to be a fairly big moment. Bloke was a star when he crossed, and will be again once fit and able.

Tipping comp time again ... easy to play, just pick 3 road teams to win from 3 picks. Most week's there is 1 point on offer for getting all 3 correct but we have a number of bonus weeks where 2 points are up for grabs with the final week carrying 3 points. All tips must be in before the games start for your particular tips. No changing tips or editing allowed. As stated, it's a very easy process apart from getting them right! Missing a week or 2 or starting late may not necessarily effect your chances of winning ... there are numerous weeks when no one gets a point or points. However, the bonus weeks are where the comp is usually won & decided. Bonus weeks are week's 2, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15 & 17 where 2 points are on offer with week 17 worth 3 points. If we can 5 or 6 starters it's a goer. Just post up a yes if interested @Dee Zephyr @DemonDave @pantaloons @titan_uranus @Strafford @Dappa Dan @Go the Biff @Clintosaurus @DeeSpencer @cowboy_from_hell @layzie @JV7 @Dr. Gonzo @Cards13 @Wadda We Sing @daisycutter @beelzebub

The guy ran third in the Brownlow in a year when we played in a Prelim. He has a poor year along with twenty others and people want to fling him! God deliver me.

Another lucrative venture could be to setup a meth lab and have it run via a proxy. There is good money in meth, so I have heard.

I agree with the screaming lack of on-field leadership. That coupled with the absence of runners has been a big contribution to our downfall this year (along with injuries, preseason issues, and plummeting confidence etc). We are not a smart football team. We don't play as a unit and there is not much instinct guiding our play. A classic example is the how slow we are to change to wet weather footy during a game. It's almost as though they need the runner to put out the call 'Hey fellas, it's raining....'

I’m concerned at the fact that we haven’t had a single Rising Star nomination in the past three seasons. This is has been brought about in part by the fact that we have traded out three first round draft picks. Meanwhile, have already been overtaken by other clubs who have picked and played young players. The legacy of our policy may not serve us well in the long run. We need to get young kids of quality onto the list.

We better be all over this kid, looking to be early 20s pick. Would be [censored] if we pass on him for another Vanilla mid like Sparrow/Spargo/Jordan ect WWT Eagles/South Australia | Small Forward 02/06/2001 | 170cm | 68kg Arguably the most naturally gifted player in the draft, the nephew of Port Adelaide and North Melbourne premiership player Byron, is small in stature but big on X-factor and his ability to do the impossible. He is clean at ground level, has high-level goal sense, and despite being so lightly built, was able to force his way into the Woodville-West Torrens League side courtesy of a massive six-goal game against North Adelaide in the first round of the SANFL Reserves competition. Adds an extra dimension to the South Australian forward line and will be one that could light up the big stage over the next month.

I'll assume GC get pick 2 and we are serious about splitting pick 3 (2234). The talk is that GWS will trade 12 (1268) and 14 (1161) = (2429) which looks like equitable value. This is so they can take pick 3 before they have to match a bid on Tom Green who may be bid on as early as pick 4 (2034 with a 20% discount = 1627). The problem with this theory is that GWS doesn't have 2nd or 4th rounders and its next picks are 49 (287), 75 (0) and 85 (0). That leaves them a long way short of 1627 and would put them in a big deficit of 1340 in 2020 - equivalent to pick 11 (1329) - likely to be around their 1st pick next year. GWS will be desperate to trade in some mid range picks this year to make up the shortfall on Green. We could be in a strong position to bundle in some later picks for a good GWS player that we fancy.

There was a player at Geelong a while back called Mumford, they really liked him and had him pegged as having a good future with them. Sydney thought he would be good for them, made him an offer Geelong couldn't match and who would have guessed, he ended up at Sydney. I hope we are into Bolton & anyone else that could help us improve. No point adding more nqr's...

The old 'no hurry to re-sign' comment... https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/no-time-frame-on-gold-coast-call-for-ben-king-20190901-p52mvi.html

It’s criminal that somehow Brayshaw received more votes than Oliver. But we all know the umpires are the ones that award the votes, and they are heavily guided by the stat sheet. I didn’t say he had a bad season, but FMD he didn’t have the 3rd best season of any player in 2018. He would barely make the top-25.

#everyonecanbetempted #noharmaskingthequestion

This post is spot on. Lever and May were HUGE pickups, even if the trade price was considered high by supporters. They were probably both considered to be in the top 5 key defenders in the comp, and 1 a club captain. Enormous coup to get both of them. And at a time when we had a bare cupboard of quality key backs. If we could just find a way to entice some elite outside mids to come over.....

Sorry mate ... I was jumping at shadows. I thought you were having a go at the jockey. I misunderstood the joke. Apologies. When it got the inside lane I thought the horse was home. Wouldn't surprise me if they retire Vega Magic. It's a 7 year old and a Group 1 sprinter that's won nearly $4Million. It's done enough and it looked quite incapacitated in the straight. It should be noted that the horse only had 1 run.in the Autumn and was beaten 20 lengths at that only start. There is something wrong with the horse and I believe it's health & well being related.

Doesn’t hit the scoreboard, average skills. He’s coming from a good environment at Richmond, but I wouldn’t give up a pick under 50 for him. He’s depth at best. He’s only a slight upgrade on what we have already and isn’t the answer to our problems.

Not what i was saying at all Macca. I was just commenting on the photo and having a bit of a laugh. The people in the picture ie owners are the ones that did their money, not me. They are obviously asking for an explanation from Oliver for which they are obviously not liking what they are hearing. Has got absolutely nothing to do with other jockeys being killed? think thats a bit of a long bow mate. Cheers.

Rowell and Anderson won’t be the best 2 players in the draft. Lock it in, take it to the bank. How many picks 1 and 2’s in the draft were in the All Australian team this year? Hint = less than 1. Getting pick 3 instead of 2 is so irrelevant it’s not even funny.

This stuff makes my eyes glaze over. I'm impressed with the level of understanding others have on Demonland about how the points system works. More importantly, though, it seems that our club is one of the leaders in understanding it and have made some smart decisions making extracting value before other clubs caught up. I hope we're still front runners in our understanding of the system.

Delusional- will never happen

One option could be to develop the site ourselves and retain a portion of the redevelopment to provide rental income. A long shot but A Leoncelli is in real estate development and has overseen a major residential project in Hampton. He could at least offer insights into what's achievable. It's worth noting the site is a 10-15 minute walk (1.2 kilometres) from two railway stations, McKinnon and Bentleigh which is pretty neat siting.

I wonder if they are explaining Ollies new retirement package........ .....after his ride on Vega

Fritsch can be a good 3rd forward marking type ... good point. But we desperately need a No.1. We needed to replace Hogan with a like for like. A year later and the need is even more obvious. If we go with the same type of tall forward set-up we won't improve. The other teams know that as well that's why they upped the ante on pressing and pressuring our midfielders. Knowing that our forwards can't win their own ball allowed the other teams to pick apart our game plan with ease. Therefore, our inside 50 conversion rate became abysmal. And that was all evident early in the season. We need to make a big play on at least 1 tall forward from elsewhere. But 1 acquisition may not be enough. Some creative trading can get it done rjay. I reckon we need 2 as I'm doubtful on Weideman and T-Mac works best as a float forward/utility forward option. Let's face it, both players failed massively this past season so to go again with the same system doesn't make any sense. And then there is the injury factor so back-up is required. As previously stated, small forwards work best on the back of good key forwards.

I would lock in Fritsch now as our 3rd tall...Trac rotating more in the mids but also spending quality time forward. The 1st 2 and at least one good small are a problem. Tmac is a number 2 man...as for the number one man there really is no one available for trade unless Cameron falls out so that leaves Weid and he really must step up next season. Need to trade in a small, Tiges have the most so at least one should be gettable....

you seem to miss the point where he needs to agree to a trade too, and he might not WANT to go north to finish his career, seeing as his wife is based in melbourne, her job is in melbourne, his kids are forming friendship circles here, his brother is about to return to the state, the rest of his family is based here? it's not just down to the team in the afl - the players have a LOT of control over their own destiny, much more so than in the majority of international sports also, there's NO WAY if gc17 are gifted a priority end point pick - which seems a fait accompli - that they won't be taking rowell and anderson as best mates to play together

No. You sell the land when it is the best time. Forget the dwelling. It is not important

How about we draft best available rather than race based recruiting.

Oliver, Brayshaw, Petracca, lever, salem, Viney, Harmes, Weideman with TMac, Melksham and Gawn all 27-28. Saying the list is ageing is a stretch, our core group of players are all still quite young

Moneyball is screening on 7mate now, for a different perspective...

Agree Marty Hore kicking the goal to level scores v GC Suns was worthy of a Top 10 nomination.

You can’t trade Jones. I note in the herald sun today all 5 pundits had Hodge not only in the best team of the last 20 years but all 5 had him captain as well. Hodge left Hawthorn a legend with nothing more to give Jones is a warrior of Melbourne and stood by us. As a leader he hasn’t achieved. He can’t leave to pass on his wisdom because his wisdom hasn’t achieved anything at Melbourne. All he has is loyalty but we need to respect that.

Tomlinson is a walk-up start to our best 22. I am happy to go after any available player that makes our team better.

The first quarter against Port in round 1.

Anyone who says the boys don't deserve a mad Monday are a-holes of the highest order. Yes, we didn't get many results this year - but these blokes work incredibly hard all year, and to say they don't deserve to blow off some steam at the end of the year and have a laugh is reserved only for those who think the worlds revolves around them. You've never had a bad year in your career? Maybe you should exclude yourself from the end of year party when the boss puts his corporate credit card on the bar when you do. Let it out boys, have fun, big summer ahead.

The fact that Yze is at Hawthon learning the craft under Clarkson excites me more than the fact that he is a Melbourne man.

Firstly we need to stop using numbers instead of letters to spell words and then can have an adult conversation.

Roughy is champ - no doubt about He’s also been through some tough personal [censored]. So apart from knowing a bit about footy he also knows a bit about resilience Bonus. He seems to be a decent bloke Yep. I’d have him as a forward line coach in a flash!

For sure Jones is tradable, if managed well (though far from a certainty at MFC) Would I like to see him stay and get to 300 games and be a one club player? The romantic in me says yes. But romance won't get us closer to a flag. He won't play in a flag at MFC. Do you think Jones would want to stay because of loyalty or because he thinks he's weekly best 22? In 2020 he's not. He has a couple of years to add to a club like Gold Coast who struggle to keep experienced stars. He'd get one year with us, some of it at Casey. Fresh start at a young club, surf next door. I'd say it's tempting. 3 + Jones to GCS for 2 (Anderson).

And T Mac's game against Carlton which everyone's forgotten about. 6 goals by 3 qtr time is a pretty spectacular effort. We would've won 3-4 games on the run home if he didn't get injured. His form turned around at the Freo game and it was match winning against average sides.