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16 possessions, 5 marks and 2 goals from a kid playing his second game is phenomenal, whether you rate it or not.

We are terrible in every part of the ground except the 5m radius in which Gawn is standing.

Tell us what is really going on Goodwin...

Today was diabolical For us members, being shareholders, I think we've reached the point (if we hadn't already) where we deserve an investigation into what has happened behind the scenes this year. It's been said a fair bit. But something stinks. Yes we love our team. But we're also investors. And somebody, or a group of people out there, are wasting our money and faith.

Yes sad isn't? Honestly he does two things a lot in the seniors side don't. He has a red hot go is fast and when he has the ball he uses it well. Here is an even more amazing comment the Weid played well in the first half, our first two goals were from him taking two good contested marks and kicking truely. He was in the top few players in the first half. After half time our entries into the forward dropped amazingly and when they did happen they were so poorly delivered JC would have struggled. Now you all know I have not been a big fan but with our lack of forwards he must play next week.

FMD od !!! If you're giving JKH a wrap, I reckon it's time to abandon ship!

Stretch Baker Lockhart Fritsch Garlett C Wagner J Wagner O Mac Petty Garlett Spargo Smith All VFL standard footballers. Some may get there but right now there is a lot of battlers above. A good team has to carry some players and that’s where role players can shine. Usually it’s only when 3 or 4 of the above get a game. No team however can carry a dozen fringe players like we are and can expect to compete. Unfortunately when the heat was on today, GWS looked faster, tougher and hell of a lot more skilful than our mob. There cue was well and truly in the rack for the last and I take nothing from that. Even with all the effort in the world you need some skill across the group and there is so many in that team who have minimal

I went along to Willy Oval by the sea today as I live down that way. Just a few notes on the game. Willy are a team full of "pit bulls" as Rawlings called them and they are at you all game. In broad terms they closed down the contest, got the game on their terms, then kicked about 6 goals in a row from the end of the second to the first goal of the last qtr. It was a good test for us and as of the seniors, we came up short. Lever was playing pretty well, his disposal was excellent, he was taking the kick-ins and our back line was on top when he went for a contested ball up on the far wing and looked to twist his ankle. He immediately started hobbling, came off, got his ankle strapped, did a couple of run-throughs, went to half time then came out and sat out the game with his ankle iced. I watched him a lot even when he came off before his injury and at the quarter time break and he is definitely not comfortable yet on his knee. He was very aware of it, stretching and itching it a lot. He is so skinny it will take us all a season to get used to his gangly running action but I am pretty sure he didn't re-injure the knee in any way. He will however be a good 3 to 4 weeks away from seniors footy and probably at least a couple from the Casey games. We also lost Maynard in the second qtr to a dangerous tackle (no free) and he was concussed and out for the day. So we were down two players and all of a sudden we had to shuffle the deck and they got on top. One player I really wanted to see against a strong midfield was Sparrow but he was also out (rested I hope and presume). He was part of a good winning midfield against Essendon a couple of weeks ago where he had a run with role with their best mid (number 4) and did a good job. So with Sparrow out we pushed James Jordan into the middle and he was changing with Lewis off half back and it was working well, both Lewis and Jordan getting lots of the ball and driving us forward, but they tightened up, especially on Lewis and then Maynard went off and they got control of the midfield. Preuss was okay but their ruck was six inches shorter than Preuss so they just wrestled and did all sorts of illegal things to stop his influence and the umps didn't pay one free to Preuss. If they had stopped all the illegal stuff he would have been better but they completely dulled any influence he might have on the game for the period they dominated. He got loose a bit in the last and gave some nice taps to advantage but the game was already gone. JKH was our best player. They tried to tag him but he was too clever and was the classiest player out there. He has developed his defensive game a lot in the last year and laid a lot of tackles as well. He did drift out of the game a bit at times but was pretty good for 4 qtrs and is the most likely for a step up to seniors. He played wing very well and would take Stretch's or Jones's position. If given a good run at it, I'm sure he can become top 22. And why not given we won't play finals this year. Weid was Okay. He cannot take body position well in a pack yet and may never be capable of that role. He also doesn't always run to the right spots and he got hands to, but dropped a lot of marks. But he did take a couple of lovely grabs when given a clear run at the ball. For the most part he was our number one forward today and as such was hassled out of a lot of contests but he isn't ready to come into the seniors and add much more than Smith does. A bit of a negative review I know but for those thinking theres depth down below, think again. In an ideal world we would leave Weid in the seconds for another year, get him to put on another 5-10 kilo of pure muscle, increase his strength and get him to concentrate on getting his percentages at marking contests up closer to 20% rather than the 5% he's operating at now. Hannan was okay, looked fit and well, a little rusty and maybe one more before a call-up but given such a long lay-off a very good return. Bedford had more impact than Chandler today, he played the small forward role quite well and hopefully can develop further this year. Both okay but definately not ready for any senior footy. Lewis and James Jordan. Lewis was good and did well not to get reported as they gave him plenty of stick. He was very good in the first qtr delivering off the half back-line but when we lost Maynard he had to go to the contest more and wasn't as effective. He may still get a recall as he looked fit and well and had a good attitude. James Jordan, I think this was one of the first times they used him on ball and he was good, lots of tackles and little dish outs, he should be proud of his game and he shows plenty of promise. Overall, Willy probably had the best three or four players out there today and are a pretty good side who play their home ground well and played well for each other. Their commitment was what won it and something that once again seems to have gone missing from Melbournes whole footy department.

No it’s not. You can’t forgive lack of effort and intensity no matter who’s playing.

Gawn, Hore, Baker were the positives for me today

This is what happens when you let guys off the hook just because they're a "champion of the game" and a "ball player". They think they can do whatever they want. He needs to be suspended, like he should have been the last 2 times he hit blokes in the head. Everyone should be be judged under the rules the same, no bending the rules just for the elite.

I'm not sure if this or something similar has already been posted, apologies if I have missed it. The reality is, I challenge any team to have almost half or just over of their best 22 out and to be competitive. Yes, we had half a team of players who aren't AFL standard and it showed. It has also given us an opportunity to see what some players are made of when we are missing all these players. I, like everyone, entered this season hopeful and optimistic. I was furious when I left today, angry that the team had AGAIN dished up complete rubbish. After having time to calm down, I had a think and have come to the conclusion that yes, we are lacking leadership, but we are also lacking a hell of a lot of mature AFL bodies. But I would say the following are best 22 players (or are at least on the cusp) and they were all missing or have just come back into VFL footy: Salem, ANB, Lewis, Lever, May, KK, Jetta, Hibberd, Melksham, Hannah, AVB, Weideman, J Smith, JKH - that's 14 players. I reckon of that 14, you would say all of them with maybe the exception of JKH, Lewis (age catching up) and maybe ANB are not best 22. So that leaves 11. Literally half our team. Not to mention, the majority of our backline. Some of the above we only have ourselves to blame for their absence - eg J Smith being sent back on with a groin injury in a JLT match. The rest is a result of bad luck. When you swap out the following players: C Wagner, Spargo, Petty, Stretch, Garlett, O McDonald, Fritsch and potentially J Wagner, Lockhart, O Baker (who I think will keep his spot) our team looks a hell of a lot better. Every team gets injuries, sure. But if I hear about how badly hit Richmond have been without a word in the media really about ours injury list and the level of player we're missing i'll spew. I acknowledge the lack of form of Brayshaw, Viney, Jones, TMac etc hasn't helped. Things that I think are interesting out of our injury plight are - Hunt as a forward, Frost potentially keeping his spot when the defenders are back, seeing Lockhart and Baker with more mature and more highly skilled players around them, seeing if these players have any impact at all. If they don't then we can presume that last year was the anomaly, not this year. I'm also not usually the one for positivity. I don't think the above is being an optimist, I think it's just a reason.

This should be renamed the Billy Stretch depreciation thread

For my mind it’s simple now, season is done, so make sure we are best prepared for next year: - Don't play anyone unless 100% fit, healthy and with appropriate game time at VFL level under the belt - Play everyone who needs to build experience and game time at senior level with a focus on learning and development. Play a really simple game plan that encourages them to use their natural instincts - Make sure anyone who will need surgery prior to preseason has it done ASAP so that they can actually do a pre-season - Start the search for new line coaches, fitness coach, kicking coach ASAP and get them on board immediately to maximize time to gel with the group prior to next year - Cop the AFL fine for not tanking with good grace and move on

I don’t think anyone is actually suggesting he is a magic bullet or a particularly good forward, just that he makes us better by taking the best defender because he is massive and can mark and kick goals as has been proven in his games with us this year. This means tmac and others get the next best defenders which gives them a better chance, and our small forward get more opportunities from balls that go to ground rather the simply being marked uncontested by the opposition. He also suits our bomb it in mindset which despite our suggestions, continues to go uncorrected

Just got home from game... GC switching off would be bad football, just like our poor kicking is bad football. We played a very good final quarter... if it was the result of oppositions bad football, no apologies. Just like they capitalised on our bad footy in first three quarters. If you watch closely you'll discover that our best quarter came about because we switched to play on at all costs. This worked really well for us and we had no right trying to stop and prop up to 3 Qtr time. Haters take a breath... we were missing half of our best 22. There were some positives! Baker kicking two good goals, Petracca working his way into game, Max taking several great marks, Hore's continued intercepting, Frost's run out of defence, Lockharts smarts and goalkicking, J Wagner's best game for some time. I have deliberately included some of those condemned to the VFL by the bright sparks around here... they will be even better when supported by those still to return.

No doubt, it’s been a shocker! Huge disappointment. But having so many substandard players out there has an impact on the roles, performances and confidence of the other players around them. It might sound like I’m giving them out, and I don’t want to. The skills of a number of our ‘better’ players must improve, but their mistakes are amplified right now because there’s no cover coming from the other players. Plus there’s what we know about the preseason which also massively impacts form and confidence. Strangely I’m finding myself quite circumspect about this season, I’ll wait to grab my pitchfork until the second half of the season when we have players and conditioning back.

Hindenburg was a zeppelin.

Welcome back Mitch Hannan - goal.

St Kilda forward Paddy McCartin said he was desperately struggling with the symptoms of repeated concussions and could not put a timeframe on a return to AFL football. Asked how he was feeling McCartin, 23, said: ''not great to be honest, it's been a tough past few months''. "I've lost my footy identity a bit but also a bit ot my identity as a person,'' McCartin told Triple M after he was placed on St Kilda's long-term injury list. McCartin said he had struggled to ''do basic things'' whether it was supermarket shopping, going to the cafe or driving his car, and described his girlfriend as "virtually a full-time carer''. For this to happen to a young man is so sad. Get well Paddy. https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/luckless-saint-mccartin-on-long-term-injury-list-20190526-p51r8j.html

Did anyone else hear Phil Davis as he ran to the bench mid-way into the first quarter? He yelled out "they're f**king sh*t! No pressure!". Ostensibly to give his team a rev-up but largely directed at our bench. Arrogant? Maybe. Accurate? You bet. When you have this many VFL-level players in the 22, you have to start with the non-negotiables - chasing, tackling, effort and intensity. We had about five players bring the required level in the first half. On a 9-day break, there is no excuse for being so insipid so early. In terms of our skill, yes, other sides have had injuries too, and some have done well despite those injuries, but that doesn't mean every club is expected to be fine when they have a 17-man injury list and have had a major portion of the club in rehab since December. Today's side had Stretch, Spargo, C Wagner, J Wagner, Petty, T Smith and Lockhart. Of those, only J Wagner and, briefly, Lockhart played respectably. I'd drop the other five immediately if I could. But it's not just our injuries. We have too many best 22 players who are out of form and/or underperforming - Brayshaw might be at the head of this list. He was ineffectual all day. Then add Jones and Viney, who are struggling, and when Oliver gets tagged out of it our midfield was essentially Gawn and Harmes. On the flipside, we've found a gem in Hore, Baker's shown enough in his two games to suggest he can make it at this level, and Lockhart shows flashes of brilliance (I think fitness is his big problem so a pre-season will hopefully do him wonders). We need to spend the rest of this year re-integrating key players on the injury list into the best 22 - Salem, Hibberd, Melksham, Lever, May, Hannan, vandenBerg, J Smith, Jetta (and, IMO, Weideman). And we need to demand that Oliver, Brayshaw, VIney, TMac, Petracca and Jones (so long as we keep playing him) lift their games.

Yet he (Spargo) can't run quick enough to catch anyone YB. And we continue to make a mess of most of anything short when we did try coming inside 50. Then the bulk of time bomb to the hot spot where no one takes a contested mark with i believe one exception by T-mac late in the match. Pruess Pruess Pruess for Spargo all day every day unless you can be 95% certain it's going to [censored] down...and even then i wouldn't play Spargo unless there was no other smalls to choose from.

J Wagner - Not AFL Standard C Wagner - Not AFL Standard Stretch - Not AFL Standard Smith - 3rd tall only Garlett - Replace with Bedford O McDonald - Bring back Lever Fritsch - What has happened Brayshaw - out of position Jones - needs to retire Oliver - rare bad game Petracca - just so frustrating Gawn - prevented 100p loss Hore - Prevented 100p loss

We have a lot of frankly VFL footballers playing at either end of the ground too. Collingwood and the Bulldogs showed in recent years that injuries shouldn't matter if your system and work rate is there. We were okay in 2017 in this respect, but not only are our systems out this year, our work rate at times has been abysmal. The midfield defensive transition is still VFL grade level too. I'm in the group that says our FD needs a massive shake up, a new head of footy and I wouldn't be against turning over every assistant coach we have.

Viney was our best mid today, not much competition I know but he actually played well

Just back at The Manor - I have to confess that I pulled the pin at 3/4 time. As most are aware, I don't mind a bit of BDSM - but that effort/game today was even too much for me.

Come on. At least 6 of our injured would get a game at any other club. That’s more than a quarter of the team, all A Graders, not playing. Chop a leg off a racehorse and see how it goes.

Im sorry but this is rubbish. Teams with good methods, training and structure who come out with white line fever (we dont!l) still hold up ok and some very well with a stack of injuries or also ran players. See the Hawks & Tigers pls. They don't plumb the depths that we do and find soldiers to come in from downstairs who play a role no matter how few games they have behind them. This is a 'whole of club' problem from the boot strapper, the recruiting team, the line staff, the coach and many of the players who go missing when the heat is on.

He has played all of 2 games. Has some run, some flair and can kick a goal. Was better than most today.

What he says to the media and what he says behind closed doors r two different things. He’s not Neeld ffs. Im surprised no one is looking towards Chaplin. He’s the one I have concerns about. I’d love Rawlings back coaching.

We've all heard about "coach killing" games... well we just saw a "fan killing" game. There was not one positive from that game

They had 2 on the bench in the last. Kicking 7 goals in a dead quarter doesn’t change the result and if Goodwin uses it as a positive he is treating us all like fools.

I’m in no mood to tolerate that misplaced apostrophe.

Although i am sure it will be denied right now, there has to be some internal problems, and i don’t mean injuries. This year has just been to “off”

I just removed Fritsch from my favourite players that’s how angry I am. Cop that Bayley.

What's really starting to [censored] me is this [censored] look everytime...

From a Prelim to the worst team in the comp. From the highest scoring team to the lowest. All in one preseason. A pathetic club.

I prefer the Brendan Bolton school of thought, if you only count the last quarter we won that game easily.

Goodwin could at least run through David King on the way out.

Weideman gets his third. Lead is 26 points

Omac might not be strong in the contest, but at least he is really slow

Beat it!!!! We hold the record.

Forget the talk about our poor forward line and backline. Our heralded midfield is getting smashed. The worst display since the PF.

Said at quarter time I couldn’t imagine us playing any worse. My bad.

Casey 2 goals to nil. The Weird two good contested marks for two goals.

Where or where are our 2 captains?

If you didn’t have kids?

Aw, gee, do we really want to see the best players on the sidelines just because they deliberately break the rules of the game? This could cost someone a Brownlow! Do we really want to see a star player miss out on a Brownlow just because they repeatedly show they can't conform to the rules? What's the game coming to?