Leaderboard

Goodwin was just on SEN 1) Gawn will play 2) Watts's scan came up clear. As long as he gets through training tomorrow will play. 3) Hibberd will 100% play. Always pulls up sore with his tendons. 4) JKH will play this week. 5) I might have made up point 4.

Give the kid a run, he bloody deserves it.

The Beatles last came to Australia in 1964, the same year we won the Grand Premiership. I note that Sir Paul McCartney is touring Australia this year, could it be that he is the cursed one and not Norm, and his planned trip will break the curse? Lift the curse Paul, lift the curse.

I don't want to have to call the Mythbusters to sort this one out but if I hear another "wide open spaces" call about Subiaco I'll commit a feckin homicide. The ground is effectively 7 metres longer each side of the centre circle compared to the MCG but is not as wide (I think @jnrmac gave the dimensions on another thread). A players speed has absolutely SWEET F@#$ ALL to do with how effective they will be in relation to this small variance at league level. In my opinion, the only effect it has on game strategy is on most facets of set ups and postioning at stoppage and zoning. And, given we have good speed on our back and forward lines I can't see how this is going to adversely affect these players. Playing as an inside mid with a big tank, Trengove will be just fine at Subiaco.

Frost is an athletic straight line runner. While he's not the worst big man on a small, it's far from ideal. As for Kennedy ? They beat Geelong without him. Geelong had Hawkins out, so that squared the ledger. At least we've grown accustomed to not having Hogan. As usual, the game will be won in the midfield. Out-tackle them with the same pressure game as last week then we can win. On the weekend against Geelong, West Coast had virtually identical CP and disposals and Geelong won the clearances and centre clearances, but importantly, West Coast had 93 tackles (19 more) and 16 more inside 50's (59 to 43). Put the brakes on Dangerwood and you're a long way to winning. They'll always get their clearances, but in general midfield play West Coast were on top. Tellingly, Geelong had more handballs than kicks, which is a recipe for a loss, while West Coast had a far better balance. So in essence, West Coast out-pressured Geelong, Geelong then overused it by hand, and West Coast were more direct with 16 more inside 50's. The imbalance in inside 50's led to West Coast having 8 more scoring shots, which will usually be the difference. If we drop off on the pressure stakes we lose.

Play him on Mitchell. No need for speed there. Next week back on the G vs Swans who are not quick. I'd rather him than JKH.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Would be VERY pleased to see Trenners given another opportunity, and for him to finally get himself back to the form he had pre-injury, and to be a star on the big stage. Would be SO good to see him a part of a successful tilt at finals glory by the MFC. Time is still on his side, so here's hoping...!

Not bad. Coaches us to 7-5 and they put him in the hall of fame... Imagine what he gets when he leads us to a flag!!!

Article here: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/melbourne-has-started-contract-talks-with-rising-star-jayden-hunt/news-story/57fca17ec54dd7dd15ef001f3e17d2f9 Not a huge amount of info outside of us opening talks with his management and all indications are that he is very keen to stay on at the club. Good move from all involved as I'm sure there would be considerable interest from rival clubs, so to add a few more years on to his deal (which expires at the end of next year) will be a big win for us.

It was not too long ago that a lot on here said that Pedersen was not worth a spot because, not only was he not best 22, he was a 'spud'. I think that school of thought (on both counts) has now been put to bed. IMO Trengove deserves a run. He is brave, skilfull, strong overhead, a good decision maker and a reliable kick at goal. He is also smart. He may very well follow Pedo's lead and surprise a few.

We nearly beat them last year. Lost by 6 and we didn't score a goal in the last quarter. Had then on toast. We should equip ourselves well and I am going for the win

I've seen Jack twice this year, once live and once on TV and I don't recall him playing the inside mid role in either of those games although he has started in the centre square on occasions. But others have seen more and I might be wrong. And Trenners isn't like for like. Jones is much faster than Trenners and much more agile. I hope he gets a go if he's "best available" and I hope he does well. But if it's a "reward" selection that would be disappointing given where we sit and the fact that players like Stretch, JKH and Wagner all seem better suited to Subi.

In many ways a like for like, including leadership qualities. If he plays it has to be as an inside mid statring in the centre. Perhaps he could alternate with lewis and vince of hb

Great that someone picks this up!! MCG 160 x 141m Subi 176 x 122m - 16m longer but 19m narrower Etihad (for comparison) 159 x 129m. Subi is only "faster" if an attack "gets out the back". WCE know that if they are able to move the ball well through the relatively congested corridor, their forwards can anticipate and run forward EARLY knowing they've got extra space to play with. For the same reason, Subi really punishes midfield turnovers. The ball is therefore harder to get through or move out of the corridor and the middle of the ground, but when you do, the rewards are greater. Whether it's faster or not depends on how you play it, and whether we're aware of how the opposition play it.

I feel people have short memories on here. JKH was deplorable when he had his chance. A good VFL player but that's about it unfortunately.

Looks likely to miss another fortnight. Unless the Weagles are playing games. Heard it a few minutes ago on the radio over here.

I agree with you and DubDee - it's a structural issue. When Frost and Hibberd came in OMac went out - that was a structural change but it was masked by OMac's form at the time. Both Macs, Frost and Hibberd can't all play back there. One ultimately has to come out. And yet we've had thread after thread about our lack of KPD depth ... Contrary to popular belief TMac is a better ruck option than Pedersen and Pedersen is a better forward option than TMac - see the %s they've played those roles since half-time vs Collingwood. TMac forward may be Earl Spalding at best - he can probably play there this week with Pedersen and Watts, with OMac and Frost back As you point out, it really becomes an issue when Hogan comes in. One of TMac, OMac, Frost and Pedersen HAS to go out then.

I wouldn't be surprised if Watts is rested, in which case I imagine Pedersen would be moved forward with Gawn coming back in. Wagner could come into the back line and Salem moved to the midfield to help cover the loss of Jones.

Free Trengove!

Well deserved by Goodwin. Can't help but ask, what does David Neitz have to do when guys like Barry Hall and Anthony Stevens are getting inducted?

Adelaide - Bastards Brisbane - Bastards Carlton - Total Bastards Collingwood - Supreme Bastards Essendon - Cheating Bastards Fremantle - Bastards Geelong - Bastards Gold Coast - Irrelevant Bastards GWS - Orange Bastards Hawthorn - [censored] Bastards North Melbourne - Bastards Port Adelaide - Bastards Richmond - Ninthmond St. Kilda - Bastards Sydney - Bastards Western Bulldogs - Chucking Bastards West Coast - Bastards I think that's all the nicknames I know. These are generally used on gameday, though.

Congrats to Simon who has been elevated into the HOF tonight. Well deserved. Goodwin enters AFL Hall of Fame

The following is a preview from a Bigfooty West Coast supporter. Worth a read. Saturday 5.40pm at Subiaco Oval we get to see the next instalment in the mystery that's become our 2017 season as we wait to see what the real Eagle's side is. The meek and mild nice guys like this and this Or the unsociable campaigners that we've seen every now and then like this and this So who do we have to beat into submission or roll over and let rub our tummy?Melbourne (7-5, 115.7%, 5th)The Demons come into this game as one of the two form sides of the competition along with Sydney winning 4 of their last 5 matches with wins over Adelaide (in Adelaide), Gold Coast, Collingwood and the Bulldogs interrupted by a loss to North Melbourne. They hold the current longest unbeaten streak having won their last 3, a run that was capped with their best win of the season - a 57 point demolition of the reigning premiers at their preferred Etihad stadiumOn the face of it they've been a pretty consistent side in 2017. Their losses have been by 2,3,13,14 and 29 points (when they kicked 13.19 to Geelongs 20.6). Apart from their 4 point win over Collingwood their wins have been by 22 points or more with their 57 point victory last week their biggest win.Within games though they've been remarkably inconsistent with regular violent shifts in momentum - all but 2 of their games have featured a 5+ goal shift, 3 of them have seen a 10 goal turnaround after Melbourne fell behind early only to run over the top of their opponent. Ominously, two of the biggest shifts were outside Victoria when they came back from a 28 point deficit against Adelaide to win by 41 and did a similar job on Gold Coast in Alice Springs.In fact, they are the only team with a 100% strike rate outside their home state albeit they've only travelled twice and one of those was a "home" game in the NT. (As an aside this game is only the second (and last) time they leave Victoria to play an opponent on their home ground - they travel to Darwin to play the Crows and have the Kangaroos in Tassie. Five road trips, 3 at a neutral venue, must be tough)So based on current form and strong away performances the trip west shouldn't hold any fears for the resurgent Dees, especially since they pushed us all the way last year and arguably deserved to win having won all the major stats apart from the one that counts most. But,1) Melbourne have lost their past 17 visits to our ramshackle home stretching back to 2004 and2) Collingwoods Queens Birthday choke (they led by as much as 31 points) masks what would other wise be a longer term WLWL pattern stretching back to Round 4 - reverse their own choke against Fremantle and it stretches back to Round 2. On that pattern they're due a loss.West Coast (7-5, 102.6%, 7th)For the most part we've been relatively consistent as well in our own way. On the road we suck (North and Port games aside) and at home we still kinda suck but not bad enough to lose with the exception of the Giants game. Where we previously became accustomed to bringing out the heavy roller for home games to earn our flat track moniker, this year our home wins have been by more pedestrian margins of 19, 26, 41 (lol Freo), 8 and 13. A streak that for any journo with more brain cells than your average turnip would put to rest any notion of us being flat trackers anymore (Hi Damo, you eggplant)Again, like Melbourne, we come into this game on the back of our best win of the season. The 13 point margin belies what was a very strong showing against an in-form opponent, which flattered a side that had earned the rare distinction of starting a game against the Eagles at Subiaco as favourites. In the end the margin was of far less importance than the way in which it was achieved. There was a genuine hard edge on display and an intent across the entire 22 that hadn't really been sighted from this group in 2017It was the sort of effort that masked/overcame the sides structural deficiencies that had been exposed in not only the three consecutive losses preceding the bye but earlier defeats at the MCG to Richmond and Hawthorn. Whether that level can be maintained will go a long way to determining if we win on Saturday, because without it I doubt we'll Houdini this one like we did last yearChangesMelbourne haven't bothered with any smoke and mirrors as such. Gawn was announced as a virtual certain starter this week even before they ran out last week and the Melbourne mids will relish his return after weeks of roving to a makeshift ruck division led by the undersized Pedersen. However, in the yin and yang of AFL, Melbourne get Gawn back but lose inside workhorse Nathan Jones to a quad injury that will weaken a still strong on-ball brigade. Doubts over Watts seem to have been put to rest but there's whispers that Hibberd may struggle to make the trip on a 6 day break. Both players have been important this year and either one would be missed should they not come up.Ultimately it may be as simple as Gawn in for Jones giving an undersized team a little more balance with their talls. It gets too complicated for my pay grade to predict who might come in for either Watts or Hibberd should that happenOur changes are a bit more nuanced. Nelson is a definite non-starter with a hamstring injury and Wellingham, who got through a full WAFL game on return from an ankle injury, looms as the most obvious replacement. Personally though, I didn't rate his game* and wouldn't be adverse to seeing Duggan left at half back where he excelled in the 2nd half against Geelong filling in for Nelson and then have Karpany or Partington come in to play Duggans role.*My view of Wellingham's game seems to be an outlier as most other opinions I've read have been positiveAfter that forced change a can of worms opens. The resumption of the quest for the Coleman Medal threepeat question may not be answered until final teams are announced 90min before bouncedown, depending on just how coy the club wants to be on Kennedy as is their wont. Whilst a return looks doubtful, the question becomes a matter of who he replaces. One of Schofield or Mackenzie is probable to make room for Gov to return down back or it could be Petrie that misses to allow Gov to remain as a ruck/forward after his success in that role last weekend.However, even if JK is ruled out the three KPD structure that made some sense (and worked) against a tallish Geelong forward line seems a risky proposition against a Melbourne forward six that lacks a true tall without Hogan. If Watts misses it becomes even shorter although Weidemann may replace him. Anyone care to remember the Richmond smalls running rings around our back 6 that had just 2 talls (Gov and Sexual) and then envisage how 3 talls would go against the likes of Petracca, Garlett, Bugg and Hannan. We rolled the dice with height against Geelong and got away with it but we look Mitch Brown to the forward pocket style unbalanced with 3 KPDs.Forget Lycett coming in - he's not match fit and it would be foolish to bring him in so underdone for such an important gameSo I've got Wellingham and another mid from the lucky dip barrel (Karps, Parto, Redden or Masten - take your pick but leave Butler out) to replace Nelson and Mackenzie (or Schofield)Now for the whipping boys - Priddis and Lecras. I'm leaving Cripps out of this because his reduced output since returning from injury is due to a lack of match fitness imo and he's highly rated by the club so I think they'll back him in for another week. If fit, Priddis retains his spot despite the prayers from some on this board but at Monday training he was away from the main group and looked a bit proppy so general soreness may strike. It'll be Redden that replaces him so be careful what you wish for.Lecca, lecca, lecca. I've had more sex than he's kicked goals in the last month or so and I've been pretty light on so he must surely be running out of golden tickets. Fortunately for him Hill was a bit underwhelming for East Perth whilst DV and Willie are injured so he might get another reprieve, deserved or not. If the MC lose patience then Hill would be the obvious replacement followed by Karpany with Lamb an outside the box possibility (so that won't happen - he picked a bad time to have an off day last weekend). I noted he was absent from training on Monday so if he's playing hurt, give him a rest because it isn't doing him or the team any favours and is doing no more than trashing the legacy of one of our very good playersTLDR - In Wellingham, Out Nelson. Melts are inevitable on a global warming scale when Lecras and Priddis keep their spots and the LOG* strategy remains.*Land of Giants Players to Watch/Match-upsJetta - has blossomed since returning from his EP hiatus to become one of our most influential players with some absolutely sublime kicking against Geelong in particular. I doubt he will go under the radar again after last week so I expect Melbourne to work him over like they did Johannisen.Garlett - not just one of the most dangerous small forwards in the comp but is in the top 10 goal kickers with 29. Fast and creative around goal he looms as a difficult matchup as we don't really have a genuinely quick small defender. Wellingham the leading candidate to get the jobOliver v Hutchings - has made a habit on getting first hands on the ball and I can see Hutchings to be given the responsibility to repeat his efforts on JelwoodShuey v Viney - this will be pivotal. Players who can do damage inside and outside that both teams rely on to get them clear from stoppagesLewis v Mitchell - it's perhaps unlikely that they will line up on each other directly but they are the wise old heads that help setup the midfield structures of their respective sides. Whichever player controls traffic and distributes the ball better will have a big bearing on the resultGawn v Vardy and the rest of his party - Big Max is a quality ruck so he will win most of the hitouts but having been out for a while may be out of sync a little with his mids so hopefully he won't be getting too many hitouts to advantage. Match fitness is also likely to be down so Gov and Petrie (assuming they ruck) should help Vardy give him a physical workover to limit his influence as the game developsYeo v Petracca - Yeo is the most physically capable to match the Demons young bull and the player that can go with him through midfield and cover him when he goes forward. He can also expose Petracca the other way and get him to worry about more than just getting the footyOur forwards v their internal demons - We've averaged less than 80 points per game with an overall return of 43.65 in the last 5 weeks (and that includes the 14.6 against the Giants). Part of the explanation for our low scoring has been a lack of supply but it's fair to say our forward group is out of form. Darling found some his mojo last week but still had just 2 goals to show for it but our small forwards have struggled to have an impact and Petrie is an honest trier but he's no JK. Against the 4th best scoring side in the league (averaging just over 100 points per game), 10-12 goals isn't going to cut it. They need to take their chances and find a way to crack the ton if we are to winWhat's more they have to limit the rebound off half back by Hunt, Hibberd and Jetta. If those guys are allowed to vacuum up the loose ball and get the ball in the open on the rebound, Melbourne will chop us up with their outside pace and our defenders will have no hope.Composure v Aggravation - Expect the brash Melbourne youngsters to be front and centre trying to niggle and cajole us at every opportunity. It worked against the Bulldogs and I dare say they'll feed on the hostility of an Eagles home crowd to push us as hard as they can. We have to stand up to it but remain composed so that we focus on putting our head over the footy and not get sucked in to retaliating off the ball and giving away stupid free kicksConclusionHistorically, Melbourne at Subiaco has been something of a formality but that won't be the case this Saturday. Melbourne were very impressive in their win over the Bulldogs and played a similar style to what Footscray did when they tore us a new one in the Elimination Final. Like most young sides on the rise, their confidence is contagious we should expect them to really serve it up to us verbally and physically - it unnerved the Bulldogs and we have to be ready for a fight because they won't be backing downNothing less than the intent and appetite for the contest we showed last weekend will suffice and we won't have the benefit of the ambush of sorts that caught out Geelong. We have to make the most of our momentum when we have it and sustain the effort for all four quartersA trend that's developed in our recent home games as been a strong first half that we've then had to defend as our opponent has pushed back. We were able to maintain our gap without extending it against Fremantle but only just held off strong finishes from Footscray and Geelong whilst we succumbed to the Giants surge. Melbourne have shown an ability to smash the scoreboard when they get on a roll - in all but two of their games they've kicked six or more goals in a quarter and in one of the games they didn't they had quarters of 5.7 and 5.6. We have to be ready for when the surge comes and hold them at bay by controlling possession of the ball then take advantage when they're poor because when they're bad they're very very bad. The bulldogs game is the only game where they didn't have a bad period where they conceded multiple goalsDecisions on Thursday at match committee level will also have a bearing on the result - 7 talls is one too many and I don't think we win unless one of them makes way. Persisting with Priddis and Lecras, especially if they're not 100%, is also dangerously rolling the diceThis wins This doesn't Heart is saying we get off to a good start before holding on for a narrow win but the Eeyores in my head are replaying the Elimination FinalHeart wins - Eagles by 7 points in a spiteful matchOh and if this scares us, we deserve to lose

Because you didn't factor in the famous player/big club discount. The title of this thread is wrong, its not a farce, its a disgrace.

Umpires will play a big role in this game, and it won't be in our favour. Just going in prepared for a one sided umpiring display.

I think people are overly focused on the very small difference between a 7 day break (I.e. that Trenners is on) and a 6 day break (which a current best 22 is on)... it's 1 day FFS! And with sports scientists, masseuses, physios, blah, blah blah I'm sure it can be managed so as to have little to no impact. Specific injuries are a seperate discussion. The team has said they've prepared for this sequence of games and I assume, as a result, that we'll manage it so as to have our current best 22 on the park for each game. As we don't have the wins in the bank to "manage" players which results in anything less than our best 22.

Would love to see him get a game - and dominate!!

IMO he deserves it cause of his consistent vfl form.

As an old time labour market operative I have some concerns that wages discussions are being held in seperated environments. There was a time when our Australian centralised system was the envy of the world but the introduction of Enterprise Bargaining Agreements and the erosion of consideration for structured value mechanisms has resulted in this current 20% outcome. While the rest of the labour market are having minimal or even no growth this market can afford to pay huge increases. Compare the payments for other sports people who have the same requirements and the anomalies are obvious. The distribution of income generated from supporters ever increasing cost in this sectionalised industry is a reflection of the ever increasing economic divisions that is diminishing our egalitarian society into elite and marginalised sectors. Because the industry can afford to pay outrageous rates they do. The CEO will now no doubt receive a further increase as the customers are milked while the feeder and community clubs struggle with volunteer support to produce the players who will be the few winners from the total pool of participants. While the community is having a furious debate about weekend penalties maybe the players have identified the real answer. Higher salaries for reduced hours with every hour treated equally and achieved through the combined power of a union which has overwhelming membership support. Oh well no point in dwelling on the inequities that are occurring as some struggle while others have obscene amounts. Without those excessive payments the industries associated with supporting players would not be able to continue. Let's hope the trickle down arguments apply . I guess at least the players in the industry are paying taxes and are not committing the sort of artifices of international companies

Thoughts?

For Trengove to play at AFL level again he will need to be 2 steps ahead of everyone else in reading the play, if he isn't he will be 2 steps behind and will just be watching the other player run off with the ball. There is some vision of him from last year that comes to mind of him running to a loose ball on the wing only for the opposition to run past him and collect the ball. Unless he has rectified this one way or the other he will be a liability regardless of the ground he is playing on.

With no Lycett or Kennedy likely, I would expect McGovern to play forward more often not that young Tom Barrass is back in the team. With Gawn back in I expect the influence of Vardy will be minimal in the ruck and when Gawn goes forward for a rest he'll clunk them from everywhere and kick multiple goals. I'n very confident about this game.

I just want to win the game. Emotional sentiment must not get in the way. We have a serious chance this September...

I was mulling this over with a mate who had the same concern. I reckon it comes down to why Gawn is a gun. What are his strengths. Running all day and being able to get where the ball's going to go. Intercept marks and marks inside our fifty. His hitouts are important, and I don't think his technique needs work. From what we're told his fitness has been super in his layoff. The big one for me though, is the hits he takes. Ruckmen running into him and tackling him. Bumping him. Anyone who's played the game knows you can be super fit engine wise, then you take one big genuine hit, and your energy is gone. It'll be interesting, but I'm confident he'll be able to have a positive effect, if not a dominant one.

In theory Trengove for Lewis or Tyson I can see. Trengove for Jones - less so.

If Kennedy is out for 4 weeks, it not only gives us a good chance to win but it hurts their finals chances massively!

was graded under the star player category - "nothing to see here"

Sure we need to look at options, but we need to be careful and very selective. A critical ingredient of what we are building is the collective sense of the team. One for all, all for one. It can be quickly destroyed by trading. Whatever we do, we must maintain this sense of the team developing and winning together. There is a great feeling at the moment and its based on morale of the team and mateship.

MCG - 17,709 square metres Subi - 16,855 square metres More room on the MCG.

Agree VP, TMac has certainly grown into his more versatile role of recent weeks.

I thought some time ago that TMac could play the Blicavs role and in a way that is what's happened over the last few weeks. I wonder how that fits.

I love Jack, but I'd be very surprised if Trengove, Lewis and Tyson all played in the same side on a quick deck at Subi. Let Tyson play the inside midfielder role, bring Vince up to play the outside role and bring Stretch or Wagner in to rotate through wing/half back.

Stretch should have come back weeks ago IMO, we miss his run at times. Trenners deserves a game on form, reward him.

It is the conundrum. Crazies all over the world doing unspeakable acts in the name of their religion. The three monotheistic religion's text's all have abhorrent sections advocating various forms of punishment including death for what we consider today, inconsequential actions. Call to arms against non believers and severe punishment for transgressors. I read an interesting book on Temple Mount written some 15 years ago. It talked about the number of plots that were foiled each year to blow up Al Aqsa mosque and The Dome of the Rock. The vast majority of these plots were financed by fundamentalist Christians in the US - backing fundamentalist Jews to blow up these structures in order to remove Muslims and bring on the rapture. Insanity. Until recently I held the view that if moderate religious views are held then all good and well - each to their own. But there is so much wrong being done in the name of religions I am now of the view that we would be a much better place if religions just didn't exist.

Wide open spaces and Trengove in mix? I don't think so. We need PACE, would rather Stretch in and rotate a few others>

Yep bring him in, he has 4-6 weeks to show us if he is worth keeping on the list

He'll be a legend in my book if he coaches us to a flag.

Another week and again confused about this idea of resting players in anticipation of next weeks game. We've just come off a "long" break and only played 2 games. Each week is about winning, not thinking about the week after. Best team plays at all times, unless you are "rebuilding", form, have injuries or have better players coming back from injury.

So you're not interested in the nonsensical, half baked comments of the regulars anymore??

We must be much cheddar off than we thought ( I'll go now )