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Being in contention for a flag or not. Making finals or not. Having a strong culture or not. Increasing member numbers or stagnating. Is this panic room thread padded? Seriously though, lets weigh up the differences: - At Fremantle... Retiring and aging Pavlich & Sandilands A freak of a player in Fyfe with huge ?? on his body An aging list - Johnson, Mundy Lack of upcoming development Chris Mayne (eek) Heave ho, way to go....(not even a theme song) Zac Dawson An annoying Ballantyne A wayward Bennell Flying around the country twice every 2nd week. Average surfing spots, Shark sightings. Toothless drugged up violent fans 0-9 record; 68%, 18th position Swan Lager Alan Bond You'd go colour blind looking at a purple haze And a coach who is about to re-develop this aging list which may take several years (no experience in re-developing)...: At Melbourne... Jones Petracca Oliver Viney Vanden Burg Gawn An ageless Vince Majority of games at the G Good mate Harmes Salem Watts Brayshaw Garlett Jetta Weidemann Trengove Hunt Wagner McDonald x 2 Stretch Melksham Lumumba Kent Awesome surfing spots - Sth West Coast, VIC. Awesome fans Awesome Theme Song AAMI training precinct Melbourne Tyson Dawes Spencil Hurley Pederson Bugg King Newton Garland Frost King King Hulett Dunn Jones Terlich Melbourne Water 5-4 record, 113%, 9th position The Place To Be World's Most Liveable City x 4 Goodwin Roos and... It's a lay down misere..

This from the latest article on Jesse: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/jesse-hogan-says-his-selfish-body-language-is-a-thing-of-the-past-after-advice-from-wayne-carey/news-story/05cbf93b33d99498568a84a12f13cc40 Melbourne’s forwards were noted for their selflessness in sharing goals on Saturday, with Hogan saying they will get better the longer they stay together. And if he has fun in a winning side, why would he want to leave the Demons? “We are starting to get that chemistry. Everyone gets a lick (of the ice cream). Jeffy (Garlett) probably handed off five or six goals and Harmsey (James Harmes) got on the end of three Joe-the-Gooses in the last quarter and it’s just fun to play,’’ he said. “The longer we can remain together, the more fun it will be.”

KPDs take a long time. Anyone who saw the actual spud that Frawley was in his first couple of seasons or how Oscar's brother played in his first year will remember that they looked hopeless. Oscar needs at least 10kgs and 20 games to begin to look like a semi respectable player. Playing "softer" games like against Brisbane to gain experience is not a bad thing. It doesn't cost us much and it's good for his development. When half of Demonland wants Dunn and/or Garland banished to Africa, I'm not sure what the alternative is. We have to be patient. I see enough talent in him to justify it.

The older one already has a farm apparently...

Have been following the ongoing saga of Jesse's contract status with interest. I think the key aspect is that the MFC have done everything they committed to in terms of putting a quality list in place, creating a superb culture and environment, an elite coaching and development group (with ongoing continuity). If Jesse thumbs his nose at that for Freo / Perth then we can all take solace from knowing nothing more could've been done and it becomes a matter of extracting the maximum amount of value that we can (for which we're in a very good position). He certainly has conveyed the impression in the last few weeks of someone who's invested. Re the scuttlebutt....I'd like to think Simon Goodwin in a public forum is a more reliable source than some third rate internet journo.

Looks it's great to hear but gee whiz surely Burgs could have added a bit more to fill that article out a bit.

Wouldnt it be great if he signed his new mega deal the day before we play Freo

To be fair SPC, I don't think we were too far off it.

Federal government spending cuts.

The potential to lose McDonald is not a good thing. Any supporter who tries to say it is, or that we can cover him easily, are kidding themselves. However, if he wants to hold us over a barrel then I applaud the club for standing firm. They know how tough it is to keep everyone under the salary cap, and if we have offered him a fair deal until 2020 (that is still speculation though) then it is disappointing to see him considering his options and not signing straight away. I still think he will be here next year, but when so many others are happy to get behind the club, it's not good to see a leader take his time to commit. If he did go, then I think a backline of Dunn, Garland and Frost can generally get the job done with OMac waiting in the wings. You would think that if things went pear shaped with Tom then we would be in the hunt for at least an experienced key back, whether that be Hurley or we look to the VFL/State leagues and try and find a diamond in the rough like Marcus Adams. What we do need to get behind is the club - they are taking a tough stance and not allowing the players to dictate our future, and that can only be a good thing. We can't just bow down to their every whim and, potentially, put our future in jeopardy.

This is such a big misconception. All players who have signed deals in the last 2-3 years have a clause in their contract for their wage to go up in line with the CBA agreement. If you signed for 500k last year but the CBA goes up 10%, you'll be on 550 next year. It's a convenient excuse for supporters to stop worrying about players who are delaying contract talks, but there is absolutely no reason for a player to delay awaiting the results of the CBA- they'd be applied to their contract regardless. \ Source: Current player

Good to hear the club is standing firm, pay him what he is worth and not a cent more. And then hope like hell he improves, cos he has stalled big time and his kicking /decision making is still bad.

When he is lying on his back with his jaw re broken he may just sit back and think... I shouldn't have dropped my knee... I'm a fIog. He would be right.

He has put off contract talks again: "Melbourne's Tom McDonald has delayed putting pen to paper on a long-term deal which would tie him to the Demons until at least 2020" http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-season-2016-demons-stand-firm-as-tom-mcdonald-holds-off-on-contract-20160524-gp2pgs.html " But Melbourne remain adamant the offer on the table to the 23-year-old will not be increased as the club works to retain its growing list of young guns...The feeling at the Demons is one of frustration that McDonald hasn't recommitted, with the deal on the table seen as more than fair.. The consensus is that McDonald will eventually sign with Melbourne, but is taking time to consider his options". This latest development looks to me that he has been open to a specific offer, received it and now walked away from the table. Good on MFC for not upping the price to 'buy' his signature. No wonder Healy has been at him in the media recently. Selfish sod! If he doesn't want to be part of what the club is building and just looking out for himself then just go,Tom!! Reminds me of an ex MFC player of the same name!!

End of season. 5 year extension $7mil.

Bit rich when this forum has threads multiple which say we should trade out Tmac and now there is another saying we should trade in Daw. I'm all for enjoying a richmond failure but some people here are clearly as batshit crazy as any richmond supporter I've met.

If the club has made a fair offer and Roos is on the record as saying they are building a team then Tom should expect that the offer on the table will not change. The Geelong/Hawthorn model of players taking under to keep together is wise and the superstar complex used by Sydney is less stable as it all hinges on Buddy and Tippet (and Tom is not in their ball park). Tom does not make good decisions on the field at times and maybe this is the same off field. Frawley held out and some said at the end he was coming around and considering staying, but the club decided for him especially with Petracca and Bradshaw as the possible compensation. I like it that the club is now well managed, not reactionary and refuses to be held to ransom. I hope Tom does sign on but I certainly don't consider hime an elite defender. He is a good mark and can run and gain yards. He struggles with taller opponents, makes poor decisions and often turns the ball over. Lets not forget last year he spent time up forward after Cloke monster him and destroyed his confidence. I am sure PJ has evaluated his worth and made a fair offer.

Clearly, but the average Richmond supporter has a certain kind of blind faith coupled with an IQ as high as Cotchin's jumper number, so they'll believe him.

When Tom signed up to his current contract, he was one of only a hand-full of decent players on a very poor list. It is likely that the majority of players on the list at the time (including Tom) were 'overpaid' relative to their real AFL 'worth', just so the MFC could comply with the minimum salary cap requirements (95% or whatever it was). If this portrays the situation correctly, and given our vastly improved list, I reckon there's a fair chance that Tom is being asked to take a smaller slice of the cake, or only a very small pay rise, at best. My guess is that he may be baulking at this.

If we're gonna sign a Sudanese player, I'd prefer Ur Boi Bangz.

I wouldn't even take him for free. He's useless. Trading him for Kent? Good grief man.

Doesn't sound like the words of someone who's leaving.

How about Oliver for Mitch Clark?

Billy Stretch doing some stretches. I wonder how long he'd been cooking that one up. What I liked about them is they seemed natural. The one of Gawn obviously has extra meaning but even the one of Col Garland watching the women's showcase match on tv has a nice symbolism to it. Great job.

I really thought his body language spoke volumes over the weekend. I consulted the tea leaves and my interpretation is thus: Up until a 3-4 weeks ago I think he may still have been of two minds. He struck me as though he was just playing footy. For about a fortnight since he looked more 'on' ... more 'Melbourne' , less robotic and more ' right, he WE go guys' Only my gut talking , I think it's now...." to manager; get it done. " We'll see I guess

Only at Richmond could the list manager admit the club had stuffed up and need a rebuild whilst The Captain believes the side can win the flag in the same year... We have years of this ahead of us yet

What just happened?

If Hogan wants to win flags he shoukd accept underva mil a year so we can retain our other good players an attract high quality FA. The Geelong model.is what we should be aiming for.

redneck right wing nut job conservatives are the only ones who read it now

Some pretty over-the-top views on either side of the coin with this one. Daw is clearly no star. But he is more versatile than Spencer and has more scope for improvement even at his age. And it's funny that some of the posters who are bagging Daw are the same ones who are more than happy to defend Spencer. Talk about emotional bias. Daw has demonstrated samples of play that Spencer could only dream of performing. He just hasn't been able to string them together. Whilst there are obviously better examples of forward/ruckman around the league, I'd have Daw on the list if we were to get him for a packet of crisps. He'd provide further depth in our ruck division and again has much greater upside compared to Spencer. Do posters realise there's a bloke named Ben Brown running around getting the third best defender on him every week, playing in a team that's on top of the ladder and who only a few years ago was playing in the VFL. Brown is hardly miles ahead of Daw as a payer.. He just performs more consistently. If we could get someone of 'Jenkins' quality then it's not a conversation. Howver Daw would be an option if we couldn't get a quality forward/ruckman.

I shudder to think what our back line will look like next year if we lose McDonald, but don't replace with another B+ Grade key defender who's played 100+ games.

would rather see the backs of Garland and Dunn, before i saw McDonald's. He would elevate his game if he became the #2 backman.

I'm sorry, but if a player with the weaknesses of Tom McDonald tried to hold us over a barrel, i know where i'd tell him to go.

He may be holding out for the CBA which may see him get a little boost. I agree we are undersized down back which is the only reason I'd fret about him leaving. Realistically he is not an A-grade player or anywhere near it. He had a good 7-8 weeks at the start of last year but has been inconsistent since then. He is a good mark, OK kick but absolutely terrible decision maker which often kills us with his turnovers across half back.

What an idiot lol Learn to hit a target first Tom before you think you can play the system. Glad the club is holding firm. Reminds me of his old mate in black and white.

No, Rhys, you dropped your knees every time. Now go practice being a turtle, b!tchmode.

Hey Guys, It's another big Dees podcast with two ripping guests - the people's voice @TitusOReily and six-goal spearhead @Jess_cameron27 http://bit.ly/1OKNQCr

Happy your not running list management at the MFC...

From a group of people (not saying you specifically) who don't believe a thing the media says, you've made a whole lot of assumptions and then paid out on a bloke based on them. I'm extremely frustrated by Tom as a player, but in what will likely be the most important contract of his life, he's entitled to take his time.

18 years old...its positively frightening how good he'll be in the coming years. I don't think I've ever been so excited by a player's ability to handpass. Love that he's a country boy as well. Everyone's putting their money on Petracca for the rising star but jeez, Oliver is surely going to come close.

Hi Mark Neeld

Must sign Tommy Mc.....cannot afford to let him go.

If all he wants is money then good luck to him, as he won't be at dees next year. If we ever hope to build a side that can contend for a flag every one will need to take unders (including hogan), just like the Cats and Hawks

"... when I betray everyone by leaving for Freo! A ha ha ha ha! A ha ha ha ha ha ha ! A HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!"

When Scully, Ablett, Buddy left there clubs the entire football world was saying it was going to happen about 12 months before it did. At the moment everyone is saying Hogan will stay, that's a good sign.

I remember when the last time the MFC drafted a Larke medalist who went on to get a rising star nomination. Here he is here: Here's the other one:

Love the pic of gawn looking at the 11 on his jumper, you just know it means the world to him

The staging problem could be easily solved by reporting players for staging and ensuring that upon review they are referred directly to the tribunal and if the player is found guilty they miss at least 2 weeks, increasing for repeat offences. The advantages of dealing with this problem via report is that the umpires can focus on the high contact while the tribunal can ensure that players are sanctioned for such behaviour without adding a dimension for umpires to assess during the game.