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How about we win by 150 points and go into round 1 with some confidence, no matter how false that may be.

I would like to throw another thought out there. Tom McDonald's kicking. I know people on here like to have a go at him, but his kicking in this match was top shelf. He was nailing difficult kicks, putting the ball to advantage so that only our players had a chance of taking it and had a 90+ efficiency rating. I really hope this is something he can do consistently, because he's turning himself into a real weapon. The run he made from the HBF across CHB and out the other side with repeat 1-2 handballs was as good as anyone in the league.

No one is saying he is a 'star' yet - just that he looks likely to be one in the future.11 Brownlow votes last year. The best of his draft. Signs, objectively, look good. And since when has 'getting laughed at' by opposition supporters been the barometer of the accuracy of a fact or clear thinking. Most people in Kansas laugh at Richard Dawkins views on evolution too ...

Thought Colin played well on Saturday, particularly in the first half. Accordingly I find the proposition of "how long do we persevere with him" to make a false presumption.

Garland had an excellent 2013, which was the culmination of some solid years developing within the system. In January 2014 he had ankle surgery, which understandably effected his output and he didn't play AFL until round 8. He never recaptured his 2013 form. In the second last game of 2014 he injured his knee and missed the final game, but I'm not sure of the diagnosis. He's been off the pace in the fitness stakes during this preseason, which may have been due to missing most of last year's preseason and injuring his knee in August. He doesn't have a gold pass to our best 22, but I think it's premature to dismiss him and it doesn't acknowledge his recent injury concerns. I think it will take him a while to hit his straps, but injury free with an increased fitness base there's no reason he won't return to the type of form that earned second place in 2013's B&F. He strikes me as in introspective sort of fellow who'll play his best when free of mind. Hopefully he continues to gain confidence over the ensuing weeks. His best is very good and his worst a liability.

I loved the passage of play we he got possession at fullback-ish and just ran his guts out to have 3 disposals in quick succession and clear it well beyond the wing to a teammate, that was elite stuff

I think the wet tram ticket thing needs rethinking. Have you seen the way those PSOs carry on when they think something is wrong? I wet tram ticket would probably result in a six-man body slam, headlock, being dragged off the tram and the police being called to arrest you for being uncooperative and resisting their pseudo-powers.

I think their job is to find people with Integrity and expel them from the inner circle of the AFL.

So how long do we persevere with him when there are other options? It sh#ts me when numerous posters are questioning a player's value to the team, then the player in question is then categorised by some as a "whipping boy". What's the point of having a forum to discuss the merits of our team if you can't make criticisms of players?

Garland will have a good season this year, despite being Demonland's new whipping boy. I'm not buying into the losing pace argument. He has all the attributes to be a valued contributor. He was down on confidence last season but that will come back quickly this year.

forgodssakedommystopspittingthedummytoughenuypandsmelltherosesitsonlyafanforumafterallbutwedoappreciategoodgrammarandreadability

Hadn't you heard, off topic is the new on topic.

The dog ate the report.

So he has the next decade to watch the Dees dc?

They have Magner and Clisby playing for them, with Neeld in the box. We better win.

Playing this farce makes me angry.

2016 centreline Lovett Viney Stretch Reads beautifully.

I am a fan of Joeboys post and accept them on face value understanding that they are opinion. they are a quick easy read that give you an immediate viewpoint of players performance. my humble suggestion is that all posters should comment on other posters as if they were addressing the other person face to face. its just to easy and almost cowardly to throw mud around from behind a keyboard. so often posters get derailed due to bruised ego's and really what amounts to childish indignation. personal slanging matches are just tiresome and take away from the good information and opinions provided on this site.

Amazed anyone is even contemplating the possibility of a loss. I know we're Melbourne, but... We'll win, comfortably, and learn little in the process.

Last time I am going to try explain my points to all. The initial grammar comment I got quite simply as they say rubbed me up the wrong way. I felt it was someone having a dig at me because of the way he said it. Sometimes the internet has a way of making it look like your saying something you dont really mean or intend and I have only ever had that remark of check your grammar and so on (not an exact quote of what was said) put to me on the internet whenever someone is trying to start an argument youtube facebook great examples. Especially with the arguments that have circled on here the last few weeks in particular a few f head and moron comments have been flown around everyone. If that is not true and just a case of I say tomarto you say tomayto like miscommunication on MY behalf than I will man up and admit my bad took it the wrong way sorry mate jumped the gun wont happen again and were on our merry way yeh Now I'm trying to be reasonable and non offensive so If the people involved want to reply please do the same If the opposite happens I will not log back in and waste time with a reply and to sir paul roos topic starter sorry for my part of another topic derailer its a great topic idea and nice to have some positivity among our suffering supporter base as we have been for far to long and agree things ARE looking up

It wasn't "one good season", either, it was at least three solid seasons in a row before one poor one, but of course that doesn't suit your argument. At least you were closer to the mark than "one good season four years ago" which was just an outright lie. I'm not suggesting that past form equals automatic selection, I'm saying it's an indicator of where he could get back to. I'm clearly in the minority, but I back him to get there and I think he will. He wasn't far off on the weekend - there was certainly a step change in his performance from the previous week. I had a conversation with a colleague at work recently about how footy fans are always ridiculously biased towards the most recent season and forget everything else. There's no better an example of that than this discussion I reckon.

I reckon the opposite RM. Hogan needs all the opportunities he can get to blow out the cobwebs. I expect our best available/closest to round 1 side to be on the park.

Looking at the form this pre-season, I think Tom McDonald is going to have a real "break out" year and gain universal recognition as the next big thing in defenders. His game on the weekend was close to flawless. He's backing himself to take marks defensively, his spoiling is good and his rebounding and attacking play has improved out of sight. If he can play like he did on the weekend all season he'll be knocking on the door of the AA selectors in six months.

Read it somewhere. Then you got me worried, so I phoned the club. You have my permission to attend.

You must hated Nate Jones first 3 years......

Perhaps.I'm only commenting on what I saw. And I saw plenty of the possession hold up footy that we've been seeing over the past year that seems to be looked at in a really positive way here. Maybe it's because we actually have the ball in our hands for longer periods which is exciting for some because in the past it's been so hard for us simply get the ball. I understand that it seems like we're still in a learning phase of what to be doing when we have the ball from the backhalf during a slow play build up but at the same time it's frustrating because there are some pretty senior statesmen down there who I expect to be looking to play in a more proactive way. I agree the first half there were some really nice, quick and effective pieces of play from our backhalf to the forwardline. That was also to do with the doggies not being very accountable and we saw the difference in the second half when they did tighten up. We became stagnant again in the backhalf with not many willing to take the game on. Garland and Grimes seem to always be 'preferring' to look sideways or backwards. Even when there are definite options upfield. The question then becomes why won't they honour those options? Look at someone like McDonald, he is someone who absolutely seeks that target upfield. He has the confidence to take the opposition on and break a line with the intention of hitting the target upfield. He doesn't have the kicking precision of Vince or Watts but he seems to be more willing to attempt that attacking play when he needs to. They don't always come off, but at least you can see what he's thinking so it's not as frustrating. As for Tyson and Salem and their clangers. Of course I notice them and all clangers are frustrating. But Tyson gives so much to our team with his clearance work, quick hands, contested ball winning, goal kicking etc. When players provide so much for the team, they can be excused for clangers. Salem as well, his stronger attributes outweigh his weaker ones and whilst he made some bad decisions on the weekend, he provides for the team. Garland is the major worry for me atm and I won't be surprised at all if he doesn't make the team for round 1. Defensively, he hasn't been anywhere near it. His intensity is at an all time low and his kicking and decision making is well down.

Steveman I read once on here about confirmation bias theory. I wonder if that might apply a bit with your assessment of Grimes. He was one of our best players. Hitting short targets should not be underestimated. He nailed his unlike Tyson and Salem who both had some right clagers. But more significantly Grimes nailed some attacking kicks really well, one of which (a bullet into the forward fifty) set up a scoring shot. To my eye he seemed to have made some technical adjustments to his kicking action.

This to me is an interesting one. You have people arguing players like Dunn and Jetta had their best year last year and they are 27 and 25 respectively, so based on that we need to give Grimes (25) Bail (26) M Jones (27) Garland (26) McKenzie (24) more time. Did Dunn and Jetta start playing their best footy happen because they reached a certain age or played a certain amount of games? Or did it happen due to Roos becoming coach and setting standards for the group and giving each player a role. I've said many times in the past Nathan Jones also had his best year last year under Roos/Stone because (a) he had more support and (b) he started to think his way through situations rather than try and barge his way through when there wasn't an immediate alternative. Other players games have also improved. With the addition of McCartney we have a formidable coaching group. We are now seeing some players fall behind from the main group in terms of skill/abilty/footy smarts, great clubs drop these players to the VFL, explain to them what areas they need to work on then give them the chance to do that. If players can't kick the footy/or grasp the gameplan under the current coaching regime will they ever be able to? Some posters on here seem hell bent on clinging on to these players. I would rather games be given to the likes of Toumpas, Mitchie, VB, Frost etc, whilst their output has been varied due to different reasons why can't these players be given the game time the others took for granted. Grimes is an automatic selection because he's in the leadership group? Garland had a good season 3 or 4 years ago, so what, if anything that may have warranted him selection the following season but injury aside there has been a slow decent in his form. The last two weeks has shown us we clearly don't have the depth many on here were banging on about. So we have two options, firstly continue to play people who have been in the system for years and still can't put it together or secondly give those same opportunities to the next batch coming through who may or may not have done enough to cement their spot but are deserving of the same opportunities given the potential they have. If they too can't cut they also can be moved on.

I hope. We. Really, do well, this, year. I really do!

thanks to the filthy Essendon we cant even get a proper test in the final hit out before Round 1 they are a stain on the AFL

Thanks C&B, you saved me from doing the grunt work on this which I was planning on doing. I watched the replay last night and noticed that our main midfield 4 was pretty much on until early in the last 1/4. So all those saying jones, tyson etc were "nowhere to be seen" should probably go and watch the 2nd half again and reassess whether or not there were worrying signs with what MFC dished up or not. I remain concerned. The fact that our 2nd string did virtually f-all once Tyson and Jones were rested for the 2nd part of the last 1/4 is a big worry, should one or both of those guys go down with injury, the season will surely be a complete write-off. Like a few on here mentioned earlier in the thread, we really did dominate even up to the last few minutes of the 3rd quarter and had multiple opportunities to really sink the boot in with missed chances for Watts (x2) and Viney. Once we let them off the hook they got a few easy goals with the wind and got a bit of momentum which they took into the last 1/4. Also, I must apologise for my rash judgement of Toumpas's game. I was highly critical when I posted up my match reactions soon after the final siren and still seeing red, and sure he got caught a few times and one short kick coming out of defense led to a turnover and goal to them but he did play pretty well. Hope he really establishes himself and blokes like him, Salem, Kent, JKH, start to push the fringe players like M Jones and Terlich right to the bottom of the pecking order. It sucks that we are taking on Essendon for our final preseason hitout, it's not going to give us any real idea where we're at as a side going into the season proper. Oh well. You play the fixtures you're given I suppose.

Gws, st kilda and mfc. Bottom 3 sides. And Newbold complains about equalisation measures.

worst possible preparation for round 1. why the [censored] should our club suffer for the mistakes of theirs? what a disgrace they are.

So they are due to get one right?

if they're cleared id be done with footy

Actually, what happened to that "play on when the ball is kicked backwards in the defensive half of the ground" rule that they had in NAB Cup games in the past? That was the one new rule that I thought would have been worthwhile introducing to the regular season, and it seems they've gone and shelved it.

Who does the AFL want to keep - the drug cheats or the sport-loving public? WADA cannot afford to be weak here, and possibly the Federal Government would get involved if the AFL dropped the ball, so that quite possibly the AFL doesn't have the option of saving the drug cheats anyway. How stupid do we think they are? How likely is it that they have no idea what the reactions from WADA and Government are likely to be if they stuff it up? I can't understand how anyone thinks Essendon have any chance here.

That was totally unacceptable to lose to St Kilda with Montagna, Hayes, Steven amongst others missing. Ablett will probably play even if he's not ready while O'Meara will miss I reckon.

And the two premiership favourites get an incredibly handy percentage booster to start the season off, further mocking the "equalisation" of the league. Fair dinkum joke.

Its almost as if the afl knew... back in october...

Hey, we actually [censored] won a game!! Woo hoo!!

Given he's done the training sessions at the club, Roos would know just what he's worth ATM. I'd reckon anyone worth their salt would be telling the kid to show us what you've got. No way would anyone at the club tell him to put the brakes on. Those days are long gone thankfully.

Too many grey areas, too many liars, cheats, too much pressure to succeed. You start letting one or two off lightly then everyone will plead they are simpletons. There's a list. Don't take what's on it, or pay the price.

I think we should introduce a rule that any response in Joeboy's three word player analysis thread should also not exceed three words. Starting from........ NOW!!

I enjoy your comments joeboy even when I disagree keep up the good work.

My analysis about Grimes for all of those that thought he had a bad game, kicked clangers, or was far too "flakey". Grimes: 91 percent efficient 120

had to DL and check the centre bounces for the 2nd half lumumba jones tyson lumumba jones newton lumumba jones tyson cross jones tyson cross jones viney michie jones tyson michie jones viney newton viney tyson michie viney tyson lumumba newton michie lumumba viney michie lumumba garlett viney jones 7 tyson 6 lumumba 6 viney 6 michie 5 newton 3 cross 2 garlett 1 interpret as you will

I'll try again, it is my opinion, and I basically don't give a flying what you think..........(better ET) I can post what I like, don't read it And if you discuss with a lot of supporters, which I do, you will find I am not in the minority, it's just a lot don't post on here because of posters like you, Dazzle and the Steveman who just try and bully everybody else into thinking what they think

Not only is the MFC administration and football department looking robust and our draftees and enthusiastic young recruits positive for the Club, but, in my view, the likely massive improvement of Casey this year will also have a very positive impact. After today's conclusive win against the BH Hawks, there is no reason that the Scorps cannot go on to clinch a Premiership. Not only are the coaching staff integrated (& both on the MFC payroll) but the senior list players who are playing for Casey each week cannot help but benefit by being part of a winning culture, a trait that will translate positively to the Demons.

Dom Tyson's last six games of 2014 were absolutely first rate. On par or beyond the likes of Cotchin, Murphy, Dal Santo or Sidebottom. He's a star, take it to the bank. Literally, if you're playing supercoach. His season average (hence price) was an excellent 94, but his final six rounds averaged 115. Salem is trickier to predict. He only played 55% game time in 2014 on account of routine sub vests. But he's definitely got something to share. Personally I'm expecting Viney to progress in the same kind of way that Jones did. Steady, disciplined addressing of specific deficiencies each season, until showing through as an all-round capable midfielder by his early-mid 20s. Not so much a breakout as an ever-growing dominance! Hogan, well, it is complex, because people's expectations and anticipation of young key forwards are so complex. Jack Darling was barely managing a goal a game when he was one of the most celebrated young forwards in the AFL, on account of his work ethic and amount of 'disruption' caused. Tom Boyd is getting a million dollars a year because... umm... he has a particularly square jaw and looks very manly? I think this season we will be 'satisfied that we're onto something good', rather than watching a Jeremy Cameron style storm rolling through. And for all that, I'm still most interested in seeing our list develop to the point of having a solid group of genuine AFL-quality players. Not necessarily stars, but week-in week-out reliable quality. A good environment for stars to shine in and kids to develop in.