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Just got back from the game, wow that was quite something to behold. I don't even know where to begin really. I'll just list some things otherwise it will be a rant and a half: 1) Watts is just a joke and the sooner he is off the list the better, was toweled up by Jamie Bennell to half time. Looked like he was wearing ice skates. 2) Melbourne players are the worst tackling side in the comp bar none 3) They are also the least skilled and composed side (but we knew that already) 4) They are also the laziest side in the comp. I lost count of the number of times our guys just let their opponent have 5 m and with their skills we were never in the race, even if they didn't hit a target,they usually had enough space to still win the ball. 5) Eagles worked 3 x harder than our guys even when they had a 10 goal lead, Lecras was running from one end of the ground to the other just making our guys look like Saturday amateurs (no offence amateurs) 6) Kent has a long, long, long way to go,and I'm starting to really have my doubts about his ability. The amount of times he just stood next to his opponent in the forward line and offered no leads nothing was just criminal 7) Our stoppage work could be so much better, we won our fair share of clearances but it was never a clean win, always a rush or a slow chain of backwards handballs to a guy under enormous pressure before a scrappy up and under out to the boundary line, Eagles clearances on the other hand always players shrugging off our tackles and hitting blokes running past at pace then delivering lace out inside 50. it was chalk vs cheese really. And the way we give blokes a metre or two at centre bounces is just so unaccountable (I'm talking about Nate Jones, Bernie Vince, Tyson, the lot of them were really loose) 8) Frawley was again just going through the motions, nothing new there 9) I hate to bring this up as it seems like such a poor excuse ....but we were absolutely crucified by the umpires, maybe it seemed worse than it was because I was surrounded by other frustrated Dees fans but it seemed ridiculously one sided for the first 3 quarters and West Coast must have had at least 5 or 6 goals that came directly from free kicks (mostly coming in the opening minutes of quarters too) 10) The number of times we handball to someones feet or god forbid actually into someones hands and then they fumble it is almost unbelievable for an AFL side just laughable 11) I saw very little to commend at all in that game, I thought Rohan Bail played ok besides that shocking crossfield pass to a 2 on 1 with Neville Jetta that resulted in a goal to the eagles but besides that he played decent. The only others that were not awful were N. Jones, Vince, Cross and maybe Tyson (I'll have to watch the game again). Fitzpatrick looked pretty rusty, although the goals were welcome, but besides those goals, he really was slow and not very clean with his hands. 12) I think it's safe to say the Jeremy Howe backline experiment is a complete failure 13) The players did something very strange at the end of the game, they wandered slowly towards the side of the ground where the Melbourne away fans were (I was assuming they were coming to give us fans a thankyou for the support) but then as they neared the 50 m line closest to where we were, they stopped seemed to talk amongst themselves and then without even clapping the fans or waving to us walked back the other way, just as aimlessly as they had in our direction initially and slowly made their way back to the race) I thought this was highly insulting to us fans that had sat through one of the worst displays of football imaginable. I'm not sure what story was with this but it seemed like Dawes was the one that instigated the "turn-around" move that shunned us fans. quite bizarre really. 14) Russell Robertson and the Wiz were sitting amongst us fans, the Wiz had a very young baby (couldn't tell if it was a boy or girl), Wiz left at half time, Robbo stuck it out to the end. At one point I turned to Robbo and said: "can you please teach them how to take a mark!" this was after Gawn had failed to outmark Shannon Hurn for the umpteenth time. 15) The lack of organisation in the backline every time there was a centre bounce was quite diabolical. Players hurridely swapping men, blokes sprinting up to the wing to man up loose Eagles, I'm not talking once or twice this happened either, it was every single bloody time the ball went into the middle for a restart, I just couldn't believe it really. Is this normal? 16) This isn't the first time I've written these words, we still try and gang tackle players or have 2 or sometimes 3 guys get sucked into the ball carrier only to leave a couple of free players for the easy one over the top. It happened repeatedly, and the Eagles torched us for it many times. We also never do the 1% type things well like the shepherds and the blocks, we telegraph all of our passes either by hand or foot and the Eagles were always right on the hammer of the receiver putting extreme pressure on. The simple things like a big tall taking a mark at half forward and then giving off to a runner going past behind him with someone hot on his hammer but not providing the block to give him a metre or two of room, that was the norm for us. 17) Pretty critical here I know, but the warm up drills are real junior footy type stuff. PIcking up and handballing to a guy standing still rolling balls at them, no wonder they always handball to stationary targets, that's how they warm up!! 18) And lastly, had one of the saddest walks back to the car at the end of the game as my little 6 year old son (who'd attended his first game) had started crying in the 3rd quarter telling me in a broken voice "Why did the umpire give the Eagle the free kick". We made it through to the end without any further tears, but then on the walk back to the car poor little bloke balled his eyes out for a solid 20 minutes as we walked amongst a bunch of happy Eagles fans (to their credit nobody said anything to push it in our face, that's what Dockers fans do, and we even had a couple of old ladies offering a sympathetic remark, such is the feeling of pity that other supporters now have for us Melbourne fans, pretty bloody ordinary finish to the night. I didn't really know what to tell him, just the usual stuff "it's only a game" "we'll be better next year" "the players aren't trying, but next year most of them won't be there" (how I hope this is true). To be honest, I have very little belief that they will actually get better but I had to tell the poor kid something. When I dropped a philosophical concept on him I knew I was really starting to scrape the barrel, told him "listen, just remember how bad this night feels because it'll make it all the more satisfying when we actually start winning again" 19) After all of that, he said " Dad, I still don't feel any better, can you tell me a story to cheer me up on the drive home". Ended up having to make up a story where he gets drafted at pick 5 by the Dees (coached by Nathan Jones) 10 years from now and kicks a winning goal after the final siren in his debut game. He drifted off to sleep after that. What a shocking night. Nice to get some things off my chest.

This site has hit a new low. Firstly, he had absolutely no preseason. Secondly, Salem is a midfielder, not a deep forward pocket player. When he develops the engine (remember, he missed the preseason) and the strength, he will play in our midfield. He is not going to dominate in a position his game isnt suited for. Thirdly, he tackles, puts defensive pressure on and has an elite kick, everything we need. Dont get antsy just because he hasnt been the quick fix

Bit pathetic that thread has been started, having a go at a kid who' is about 5 1/2 minutes into his career. If you wanna single out players have a look at the ones who have been around 6 or more years and have done [censored] all.

I fail to see the point of ridiculing a guy who has battled on despite setbacks and established himself as a top performer in a major competition. Onya Juice.

Just read a thing or two about Tyson taking too long to make decisions, but i dont think enough people have put it into perspective. Dom has no one running for him, no targets or support, therefore he holds the ball too long and tries to create options and space. He is actually very evasive and usually does create a fair bit of time, just sometimes gets caught. As we become better, this will stop happening. It doesnt say much about Dom as a player, but rather, he needs options and support.

Hey Jazza, Roosy wouldn't be fazed as I went up and spoke to him this arvo at the Beach Rd oval. He was there to watch his son play for Sandy Dragons. Was also good that he got a first hand look at Petracca as well as Brayshaw once again. Anyway, I stated that I was very happy to drive Watts, Frawley & Jamar to wherever he wanted me to. He just gave that wry smile and said "you'll need a big bus" He was there with the wife so I nodded and moved on.

1. We weren't that good to begin with. Only beating Adel and Ess by playing a fluke half of footy in each game whilst being outplayed in the other half 2. Carl and Rich were crap at the start of the year 3. We got figured out a bit when teams dropped a man behind the ball we literally can not score - Pies QB'day was the start of this trend 4. Cross' injury really hurt our midfield mix which was really dependant on Tyson, Jones, Viney, Vince and Cross playing well. 5. In searching for replacements to fill the bottom 6 spots each week we stuffed the limited cohesion we had 6. Narrow losses - not getting the positive reinforcement when we played well against the dogs twice, Port twice, Gold Coast etc meant that eventually when we dropped off we lacked belief I'm going to be positive and hope that we can find a couple of decent mature age players to step straight in and that also the addition of Hogan, Trengove and Toumpas gives us something as well so that we start next year up and running. The biggest problem we have now is the doom loop between players taking the game on and the skills to execute it. Roos mandates one on one defensive structures that mean we will never have easy open running footy. So it's always going to require skills to execute and hard work both physically and mentally to run with the ball and without. Right now as we don't capitalize on the hard work it becomes ingrained in the players to do the safe thing and handball and kick backwards and sideways.

Well I just don't know what I'm supposed to do now. I'm back in the position I was in at the beginning of the year where I'm surviving on the last of my reserves and watching purely because I feel I should. Last week I was totally and utterly shattered, to the point where I couldn't even bring myself to log on to Demonland for four days, read any footy news, watch any other footy or talk footy with other people. This week, I braced myself for a royal slaughtering, which has made it more bearable, but it's just batshit boring. I despise that feeling of knowing that even when we have the ball, you just know they're going to stuff it up somehow, and that when the opposition have it, you just know they're going to score. I'm not angry, or hurt or anything like that this week (I was last week, make no mistake). Just bored and wondering why I waste three hours of my time every weekend with entertainment that offers at best nothing, and at worst anger and frustration. It's not the first time I've asked the question of why I should bother watching next week, but I'm back there again. Only got to survive through one more, thank heavens.

Another ripper thread. The sooner people start to realise that it is not the 18, 19 and 20 year olds that is the problem with this club, the better.

If I were to ever meet Rohan Bail, I would tender him an apology, this bloke has now played 20 games this year and has gotten the most of himself that he can and plays with more heart than Jack Watts will ever have! What gave him a tick in my mind this year was that goal he kicked against Port (the second game) where he pretty much followed up and crumbed his own kick and snapped one from the boaundary. At the start of the year I wouldnt of thought I'd be putting him ahead of Blease, McKenzie, Evans, clisby and Tapscot. I think he is worth keeping.

Ready to be shouted down but Fitzy is a real talent IMO. He's a presence up forward and with a strong midfield pumping it forward he'd be an asset. I know he is sometimes awkward but he scatters packs when on.

$100 for a pie? I thought a pie at the footy was expensive...

Embarrassed by Jamie Bennell as a forward Totally ineffectual as a loose man in the backline Runs around Lycett with a glimpse of his pace and hits a target lace out. A little tease of the so called brilliance sprinkled in with so much crap. I really wish he just played flat out with 110% inensity. Whatever happened from then on I could live with. But I can't live with anymore half baked efforts.

It was either Salem or Freeman (0 games) at pick 9. Had we picked Freeman, the Nathan Freeman thread would be filled with 60 pages of self-loathing, illicit links to the personal phone numbers and addresses of Melbourne's recruiters, and recipes for burnt offerings to place at the foot of Norm Smith's statue.

For me the turning point was Collingwood game. The team just did not look like scoring at all that day and it has continued.

I want to change my vote. Having seen him get bumped off it so easily by Bennell, it's fair to say he just hasn't got it. I used to think it was just a matter of time before the club forced him to do extra tackling sessions and strength sessions, but either they can't get him to do it or he just doesn't want to do it. Carlton is still keen on him - Mick Malthouse was his mentor two years ago - and I think we can still get their second pick (25 approx) for him. It's more a case that you can't have a guy who is one of the club's two most well-known players influence the image of the whole team. Our club is laughed at because of him. Paul Roos has tried all year to show him support and I'm sure he will one more time next week, but after that he just has to let him go. Just like we all do. He's a nice bloke, super talent but he just doesn't have a nasty competitive streak that all footballers must have to succeed. I still wish that he'd show all the knockers what he can do, but I'm afraid it's just a wish of mine like winning the lottery. At some point we all need a reality check.

Have absolutely zero concerns about Salem. He's a first year player, seriously cut him some slack. Silly thread to be honest.

Sneaking suspicion the club hasnt seen a preseason the likes of the one coming. Just call it a vibe !!

Has anyone seen a 196cm footballer spend so much time falling over in the contest or near it? Over and over again we see smaller opponents holding their feet and running away with the ball while JW lies on the ground. His team mates must be disgusted with the effort. Compare him to Bail and Jetta who don't have 10% of his talent but 100% more effort. Very sad. Forget development we stuffed up big time here.

He didn't just miss basically the whole pre-season, but he's coming off a fairly debilitating illness over the summer. He'll be fine, he just needs time to develop. Don't forget this kid was probably the only one on our list with the composure to kick the final goal and win us the game against the Bombers. Unfortunately at the MFC, we can't let our kids develop for 3 years in the seconds before debut. Ideally we'd be doing that with Salem and JKH, but our list is a shambles.

Read the thread ya plum.

Ok so I had a look at dragons v ranges at sandy today. Now u don't profess to be an expert in talent spotting and with my two little guys in tow I was not 100 per cent focused. However, all I can say is please let's pick brayshaw and petracca with two and three. They would set up our midfield for a decade or more. Both a cut above and wherever they play next year, both will be ready round one next year. I was super impressed with brayshaw. Started slowly, took a big hit in q2 had a spell and then changed the game for the dragons (26 points down at that stage and won by a goal). Tackles hard, disposal excellent on both sides (not sure he would fit in at the dees as a result!) and reads the ball brilliantly at stoppages. Polished and highly professional. Yes please. Petracca. Probably the opposite in terms of started like a house on fire and then )while good all game), slowed down in the second half as did ranges. Both were barometers for their respective teams . The ball just seems to follow petracca and he was always in the action whether back or forward. Would not say he is 'explosive' but he attacks the ball hard, disposes efficiently. Both kicked multiple goals, maybe three each and looked a level above all others on the ground. Would be hard to split. Petracca probably stronger overhead but brayshaw actually looks cleaner with the ball. Pleas mfc don't trade 2 and frawley 3. These two would give us all hope for the future. And they are ready to go, not skinny u 18s like most of the other players out there.

All our wins, and a couple of brave losses( eg Port in NT) all had the following key ingredients -Ferocity at the ball Great tackling and pressure Intensity We still butchered the pill and leaked goals from poor turnovers in each winning game, but those 3 things won us every game. All 3 have gone missing in the past 5 or 6 weeks, maybe more! These are non negotiables for the great teams, not something you can switch on or off when you feel like it! Until we learn to bring this to every match we will never be a good team!

The Filth always make unrealistic demands for their players and want others for nothing. Wouldn't deal with them.

The preseason. The panacea to all our problems? I hope so....

Just glad they both look like actual footballers This is an upgrade over Blease, Tapscott, Strauss, Nicholson etc etc

Christian Salem has star written all over him Incredible skills, hard at the contest, X factor I know its a depressing time but please for the love of god, lay off the first year player whos played half his games or more as sub and has already shown more footballing ability than 95% of our list JKH has also shown plenty I think we drafted well for once

Some posters need something to whinge about each game, and make their own self important thread about it, and the usual players have either run out of gas or had enough threads as it is. All they have left are the young kids to have a crack at.

I think that's a fair summary of the situation.

The new Melbourne academy. All Metropolitan players are eligible. Melbourne just nominates the player. We nominate Christian Petracca. Oh sorry that us only for Swans, Giants, Suns & Lions.

Runs hard, takes first option, hits targets. Already ahead of half the list. Will be dangerous when he builds a tank.

I think Fitzy did a decent enough job, his output equaled or bettered Frawleys of late when he played forward. The problem with the talls was the delivery and the lack of crumbers, I dont know where kent was playing during the game but I hardly sighted him doing anything creative. Bail was at least having a go,

You have to be a good, good person to still barrack for Melbourne, Those who still go to games must be of the highest character. Those who go to a Demon's game in Perth are no less than saints. Well done to you and your little fella' leucopogon and to all the other Demon supporters there.

I've just found out that my daughter can read an AFL ladder. 'Why are Demons down the bottom?' 'Typo sweetheart '

Good to see something so positive from you OldDee. Roos points to tiredness which may well be true, but I reckon confidence should never be underestimated. Lack of it leads to second guessing in decisions which leads to dangerous delays or blunders. Also second guessing when executing things can appear as lack of skill. If you hesitate as to how hard to kick a ball just as you kick it, you are liable to produce a kick that has supporters groaning. That is not to say we don't lack skill. Just may help explain why we went from being reasonably competitive to what we've seen in the last few weeks.

It's not hard to see why he was so highly rated by freo fans and staff

I thought he was decent in the first few games, I've pretty much thought of him as a first year player since he pretty much had never played. The last few games he has done well, I see a lot of upside. Seems pretty good in traffic and doesn't panic.

Have not seen the game and I won't PSD but the result was really not a surprise to anyone was it? Not sure why everyone is so down. Last night I was reflecting on my thoughts at the start of the season. I thought we would struggle to win more than four games and I knew and said our list was going to take at least three years to fix. We are seriously short of AFL level players, hard work and a long tough road ahead but since when has it been otherwise for the MFC.

Rose this morning to discover only a ten goal loss so that was a pleasant surprise. Next thought was to hell with the medical world I added half a banana to my muesli. Tasted every bit as good as I remember. Uni black won very easily yesterday even though I could not go. On top of the ladder with finals looming. The MFC ? Who cares just more of the usual. Cruise coming up in October and yesterday booked USA holiday with No.1 GD to Disneyland for May. World is looking good.

What a ridiculous thread. You could put Gary Ablett Snr in out forward line and he would struggle to impact games. Salem has been the sub on numerous occasions, and has shown some great glimpses of his talent, and ultimately, glimpses are all we should be expecting of 18 year olds in their first year. Needs to work on his tank so he can spend more time up the ground next year.

Salem clearly has class. Not worried about this kid at all. Bontempelli - well, I'd probably trade my new car to get him to the Dees.

Exactly and not just for a week or two. He needed to be told you're going back for 6-8 weeks and this is what you have to work on. I know it's hard with such a lack of depth but it would have been the best thing for his development. He was being outmarked in 1-1 by Prestia and now Bennell showed him up, where is his competitive desire or pride?

I had a great night. I didn't watch the game. I fell so much better than I did last week.

Oh the other thing lacking at this club...a big obvious i realise, is depth. We have absolutely no serious quality pushing up to put pressure on anyone's place in the 22. Hence all Roos can do is try and turn the list over every week with an injection of 3 to 4 randoms (who might be showing a little form downstairs) and hope for the best. The decision to run with Casey as a potential breeding ground is a poor one IMO. We need to align ourselves with a strong successful culture at VFL level that produces hard nosed footballers who can run hard and finish off good work around the ground. At this stage i haven't seen any of that coming out of Casey. Time to seriously rethink this direction. A huge fail to this point. I would look to link up with Ayres at Port Melbourne if that's at all possible.

Apparently except when the Dees are involved at the pointy end!!

Looking forward to him nominating Hawthorn or Geelong as his preferred club.

And every single player you've listed has spent considerable amounts of time in the midfield and, therefore, have been given far more opportunities to make that impact. Salem is a midfielder playing as a forward pocket/half forward this year and he has shown, particularly early in the season, that he has the attributes to make it at this level.

Bit hard playing in a dysfunctional forward line though. Taylor and Billings haven't had to deal with that, and both have spent more time up and the ground and in the midfield than Salem has. The kid is tough, has good skills and knows how to kick a goal. Finding his feet at AFL level and making more of an impact will come in time. Plus it's a bit harsh to have a crack at his disposal count when he has spent probably half of his games as the starting sub. Far more pressing worries than Salem.

Salem is going to be an ABSOLUTE gun! Very impressive young lad - with all the right tools and attributes to be a fine AFL player. Was always going to be a bit small in his first year, and given that he did have an illness - has done a hell of a job. Next year, midfielder from the get-go and a very effective midfielder. Atm, just a young lad trying to see the year out.

Nope. Didn't want to come to us back then can get stuffed now. Get your retirement fund elsewherre