Midfield depth

[poita 3,902]

We knew in October that Oliver and Brayshaw were both massive risks coming into this season, and yet we allowed all of Jordon, Harmes and Dunstan to depart for nothing.

Now we are left with the only midfield options being Petracca, Oliver and Viney (all admittedly guns, although Oliver is still a clear risk), plus Sparrow who has clearly plateaued since 2021. We're completely stuffed if any of those four misses games this year.

I'm sure the rose-coloured glasses brigade can list another 10 players who can roll through the midfield if required, but the reality is that most of these either (a) take quality players from other areas (Pickett, Rivers, Salem, Neal-Bullen) or (b) are well off AFL standard at this time (Laurie, Woewodin, Tholstrup). The reality is that the cupboard is completely empty when it comes to midfield depth.

It's bad enough that we have no ruck depth and are struggling to find a fit key forward, but to neglect the midfield so badly in recent years is almost criminal. We haven't drafted a genuine onballer with a top 20 pick since Oliver 8 years ago. Yet Taylor and Lamb are happy to load up on multiple small-medium sized forwards year after year. The way our list has been managed since the 2021 grand final is just appalling.

[Demonstone 22,486]

1 hour ago, poita said:

we allowed all of Jordon, Harmes and Dunstan to depart for nothing.

Jordon left as a Free Agent.  Dunstan retired.

Neither were MFC list management decisions.

[spirit of norm smith 16,441]

We are now querying ruck depth, forward options and now the midfield.  Recent article ranked our core group of 24yrs and under as “15th”. No young midfielder coming through in this group. 
 

PLAYERS UNDER 24: Tom Sparrow (23), Kysaiah Pickett (22), Trent Rivers (22), Jake Bowey (21), Bailey Laurie (21), Daniel Turner (21), Jacob Van Rooyen (20), Blake Howes (20), Judd McVee (20), Andy Moniz-Wakefield (20), Taj Woewodin (20), Jed Adams (19), Will Verrall (19), Oliver Sestan (19) Matthew Jefferson (19), Kynan Brown (18), Koltyn Tholstrup (18), Caleb Windsor (18)

TOP 5: Kysaiah Pickett, Jacob Van Rooyen, Trent Rivers, Tom Sparrow, Jake Bowey. 

The Demons are covered across all lines with this group but there doesn’t appear a standout player that is going to lead Melbourne to its next premiership. 

Kysaiah Pickett can still be anything, as can Jacob Van Rooyen. But aside from the draftees from the past two years, there feels a ceiling on most others, although several are certainly best 22 players. 

Trent Rivers, Jake Bowey and Judd McVee are all examples of players in Melbourne’s best side for the next decade if they want to be, but how much they can continue to improve is the big question. 

League ranking: 15th

——————————————————

So now for the good news. I think about 12-13 youngsters in this years 1st round draft will be midfielders. A strong quality group.  Outside the top 6-7 midfielders likely as top 10 draftees, players like Tom Gross, Zac Johnson, Sam Lalor, Kade Herbert, Nash King and  Harvey Langford present great young midfield types. They should be around the pick 12-20 mark.   Dees would need one of these youngsters coming in for next year.  

[Nascent 9,212]

We should have some serious cash to play with for an established midfielder.

McCluggage making noise about wanting to sign on for the Lions but I would be getting in his ear and see if he could be tempted home.

[DeeSpencer 25,678]

2 hours ago, poita said:

I'm sure the rose-coloured glasses brigade can list another 10 players who can roll through the midfield if required, but the reality is that most of these either (a) take quality players from other areas (Pickett, Rivers, Salem, Neal-Bullen) or (b) are well off AFL standard at this time (Laurie, Woewodin, Tholstrup). The reality is that the cupboard is completely empty when it comes to midfield depth.

It's bad enough that we have no ruck depth and are struggling to find a fit key forward, but to neglect the midfield so badly in recent years is almost criminal. We haven't drafted a genuine onballer with a top 20 pick since Oliver 8 years ago. Yet Taylor and Lamb are happy to load up on multiple small-medium sized forwards year after year. The way our list has been managed since the 2021 grand final is just appalling.

Harmes was done at Melb. Dunstan done in the afl before he even came to us. It would’ve been nice to keep JJ because he’s still a young improving player but would you really be feeling great about our midfield depth if JJ was still on the list? 

Loading up on small/medium forwards in  which way? Laurie was pre the flag and I suspect bought in because Spargo and ANB were struggling in 19/20. I wouldn’t give up on Bill as a midfielder just yet

Howes was picked as a versatile wing/flanker which is still a need. AMW is cat B so doesn’t count. Sestan was a late gamble.

Tholstrup spent plenty of time on ball in the under 18 carnival. He’s about as close to a midfielder as you can get without being a midfielder just yet. But if the available mids are one paced, small or unskilled would you prefer them to a mid/forward who’s going to start forward?

Im not thrilled by the lack of turnover of list spots. And it’s crazy that Gus retires the day or so after the SSP deadline. 

Whilst it’s not optimal from a depth perspective I’m actually excited that Salem, Billings, Laurie, Pickett, Rivers etc will get midfield opportunities. 

[Lord Travis 10,728]

Harmes left. Jordon left. Grundy left (consider rucks part of the midfield). Dunstan retired. Brayshaw now retired. Oliver still an unknown, though looking more positive.

That's a significant hit to our midfield group and depth. I initially expected us to be top 4 and competitive again, but upon reflecting on our midfield depth and now Brayshaw retiring suddenly also... I think the outlook is less rosy than I originally thought. Petracca, Viney, Sparrow, Neal-Bullen are our only experienced proven midfielders who will definitely be playing this year. Our fate this year now seems more heavily tied to youngsters such as Laurie, Woey, Windsor all stepping up quickly, and others unproven in the midfield such as Rivers, Kozzy, Spargo.

It also robs us of the ability to play Petracca, and potentially Kozzy, forward as much. All the talk about our club is with the forward line issues, but the midfield is more important, and our personnel in there is getting less attention. It's more of a concern for us this season IMO.

[drdrake 3,163]

We saw on the weekend Sparrow, Pickett, ANB and in the seconds Salem spend time in the middle.  Oliver will he right for round 1, I reckon he will play next Wednesday night.

 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

Brayshaw was always playing HB this year. His forced retirement will probably mean Rivers stays back permanently now and takes his spot. Probably opens up the door for Howe a bit more as the likely replacements. Salo is a solid lockdown defender that should feature more prominently this year hopefully.

Issue is now we have a lot of list spots to fill over the next few years. 
 

We have a treasure trove of cash so will no doubt attract some mature talent over next trade period. 

[dazzledavey36 54,861]

Would be throwing everything at Finn Callaghan at the end of the year.

Big bodied midfielder who's going to be a star of the competition. 

[Demonland 72,155]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Would be throwing everything at Finn Callaghan at the end of the year.

Big bodied midfielder who's going to be a star of the competition. 

We should have big dollars by years end and we need to start throwing it around to quality.

[Stiff Arm 4,419]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Would be throwing everything at Finn Callaghan at the end of the year.

Big bodied midfielder who's going to be a star of the competition. 

 

[Roost it far 8,255]

We need to load up on a midfield star and JUH

[Nascent 9,212]

6 hours ago, Nascent said:

We should have some serious cash to play with for an established midfielder.

McCluggage making noise about wanting to sign on for the Lions but I would be getting in his ear and see if he could be tempted home.

 

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Would be throwing everything at Finn Callaghan at the end of the year.

Big bodied midfielder who's going to be a star of the competition. 

Yours is a better option however is contracted until 2025. Can't see GWS letting him break contract.

From memory we did like him in his draft year.

Shame Humphrey re-signed a long term deal last year.

Edited February 22 by Nascent

[640MD 3,375]

With this retirement, Gus goes through the outdoor into another career. Media ?

that’s life

But it opens a door for the rest of the players to step up and a younger player to at least get a leg into the top 22.

two possibles.    Young Brown and the young Woewodin,  why can’t we have both!

[640MD 3,375]

Nothing can be done for the first half of the year   And probably nothing in terms of replacement players until the next draft

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

4 minutes ago, 640MD said:

With this retirement, Gus goes through the outdoor into another career. Media ?

that’s life

But it opens a door for the rest of the players to step up and a younger player to at least get a leg into the top 22.

two possibles.    Young Brown and the young Woewodin,  why can’t we have both!

Maybe. He has been doing work experience over summer  in the same building I work in. I suspect he may also look to making that a more permanent option.

[WERRIDEE 5,472]

You just can’t replace players like Brayshaw. It will take time but I have confidence in our youngsters. Brayshaw leaves a giant hole in the team.

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

8 hours ago, poita said:

We knew in October that Oliver and Brayshaw were both massive risks coming into this season, and yet we allowed all of Jordon, Harmes and Dunstan to depart for nothing.

Nah, we need to turn over the list to find players better than depth players. Laurie and Woewodin are good to go.

[Roost it far 8,255]

Jordan, Harmes and Dunstan were not the answers. One of Laurie, Billing’s, Woewodin, Windsor just may cover for Gus. He’s a huge loss for the club and team. Talent like that is very hard to replace.

[58er 6,422]

19 hours ago, poita said:

We knew in October that Oliver and Brayshaw were both massive risks coming into this season, and yet we allowed all of Jordon, Harmes and Dunstan to depart for nothing.

Now we are left with the only midfield options being Petracca, Oliver and Viney (all admittedly guns, although Oliver is still a clear risk), plus Sparrow who has clearly plateaued since 2021. We're completely stuffed if any of those four misses games this year.

I'm sure the rose-coloured glasses brigade can list another 10 players who can roll through the midfield if required, but the reality is that most of these either (a) take quality players from other areas (Pickett, Rivers, Salem, Neal-Bullen) or (b) are well off AFL standard at this time (Laurie, Woewodin, Tholstrup). The reality is that the cupboard is completely empty when it comes to midfield depth.

It's bad enough that we have no ruck depth and are struggling to find a fit key forward, but to neglect the midfield so badly in recent years is almost criminal. We haven't drafted a genuine onballer with a top 20 pick since Oliver 8 years ago. Yet Taylor and Lamb are happy to load up on multiple small-medium sized forwards year after year. The way our list has been managed since the 2021 grand final is just appalling.

Coming from a poster that wants to turn over the list at the drop of a hat and not keep any one for more than 2 years if they are not embedded in the 23 or are injured that is  a bit of a stab of yourself in the foot job. 

We would only have  about 25 players left  in your posts of recent ( after 2021) not up to it who should have been moved on! 

Even you couldn’t have predicted our mass of injuries among our forwards last year and an attempt to strengthen our run and carry and forward crafts has been specifically addressed by the trade of McAdam Billing’s ruck help Fullarton( injured ) and drafting Brown who looks versatile plus Windsor and Kolt for run carry and forward craft. 

As to  the ten midfielders we didn’t fare too bad last year when Clarry missed. Sparrow is a tease and it is high time he lifted his consistency. But Kossie Riv Salem ANB at times and Laurie plus our wingers are all capable of role playing in short bursts supporting the stars who keep on giving. 

It’s not our mids who are the problem getting the ball it’s more their use of it along with whoever we have down forward to convert accurately. 

Tell us what we should go for to replace Angus in the mid season draft? Mid, forward, ruck help/ forward or defender??  

[roy11 3,852]

Very curious to see how Rivers/Salem go through the guts.

Rivers big bodied burst through the pack in the lead up to the Melksham goal in the Brisbane game was A+

More of that please? 

[DeeZone 9,821]

A lot depends on Clayton if he is ready to roll then he Tracc and Jack will assume their roles in the middle, Sparrow rotate with Jack, Tracc and Clayton rotate through the forward line with Kozz and ANB which lets us utilise Riv, Bill and Taj in small bursts to provide fresh legs as required. I would keep Salo and McVee back where they are needed most and utilise Marty Hore in the Hibberd role, plus Spargs and Chandler need to play at their best. We also need to get games into Windsor the Kolt and maybe even Seston and Brownie for a bit of X factor. Billings will provide run and carry and McAdam’s marking kicking and class will create some havoc down forward which will be great for JVR, Fitta and eventually Harry when his toe is ok. It will all come down to whether the youngsters can play their roles, just as Riv, Sparrow and Jordon learnt to play theirs in 20’ - 21’. This will be their second and third year in our system so I Expect they will manage. We can cover for Clayton short term but as we all know he is the Key.

[Older demon 2,741]

The future is a bit of an unknown but it was time to create spots for Woewodin, Laurie and Howes. Jordan left, he was offered a contract but expects more game time in Sydney. I am not entirely sold on him. Gus is a big loss but if he had been ok to play would he still be able to play at the same intensity? Multiple concussions may not have left him the same player.

The list needed a refresh and players we have been developing in MFC game style for 2 years need to play. Billings is a very good addition and we have yet to see McAdam & Fullerton. The latter received high praise at the launch for his work ethic and athleticism. He before injury had been the standout in the group.

In the match sim, Goodwin admitted we moved away from our defensive game in an attempt to be more attacking. It was a practice match take it for what it is.

Maybe this is a pause/transition season where the team morphs and gets that bit better than the last 2 seasons, which compared to some years has been pretty damn good with successive top 4 placements. Hopefully, we don't get injuries at the wrong time

[chookrat 4,247]

I'm not convinced that we've lost any midfield depth that won't be offset by what we have brought in and through improvement to our existing players.

1. James Harmes - struggled to break into the team in 2022 and 2023 who was forced to play half forward and back. Handy depth but I think Billings will offer us more in the forward half.

2. James Jordan - a handy player who is best 22 and will continue to improve but able to cover his loss with the younger brigade of Woewoden, Laurie etc.

3. Angus Brayshaw - leader and champion who allows Trac to play forward when needed and can plug gaps off half back and help fill the void if Oliver is not available. Our main loss with Gus will be his leadership.

4. Luke Dunstan - handy depth if we are decimated by injuries. Was unlucky to be injured when we could have used him in 2022 and 2023 but we managed pretty well.

Kossie will build on 2023 along with Rivers to make us more dynamic. We've also brought in Windsor, Tholstrup and Brown who could all feature at stages in 2024 and would expect improvement from our second and third hear players.

Olivers health and availability is probably the most important aspect of how our midfield performs as he is probably the best ball winner in the competition and frees up our more dynamic players in Trac, Pickett and Rivers.

Personally I think it is our forward line that will be tested again and my view on this is that the lack of tall options early will provide the opportunity to work on our ball use inside 50 and then hopefully have JVR, Petty and Fullarton/Melksham play most of the year together and build cohesion in the second half of the year.

[Diamond_Jim 12,568]

Rivers is the obvious answer and then we backfill Rivers' spot with Hore or similar.

Going forward Jefferson and Petty are key. If the latter goes and the former doesn't come on a KPF is our number 1 need.

I'm resigned to 2024 being a transition year. Just hope we use it well and come roaring back in 2025