TMac & Brown

[layzie 34,013]

Oh yeah how's Balidemon going? Still here?

[gs77 4,445]

Can't we pull them both in, sign them up on 5 year deals spreading their 2024 salary over those years, then they retire - they get their money plus can get on with life, we free up the list spots?

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,708]

1 hour ago, M_9 said:

Does it does free up cap space if a contracted player retires?

Say TMac's contract stipulates that he is to be paid $600k next year.
I'd think that amount, or a substantial part of it (his payout figure) is still part of our TPP next year.
Even if either player was unable to get on the park for a senior game it may be that they'd be many $k better off by not retiring.

Im pretty sure if a player is unable to take the field and has to medically reitre and can't play footy again the player payments aren't shown in the salary cap before a season commences.

[leave it to deever 17,517]

1 hour ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

An certain amount of respect needs to be shown to both Tmac and BBB, at the end of the day these contracts were put in front of them

Fair point. Plus without them both 21 wouldn't have happened.  I hold some hope bbb may get back to his old form but I'm not sure about Tmac.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,878]

I'm honestly not that phased by the list spot and salary cap these guys might be taking up.  It's basically sunk capital.

We invested it to keep/lure them to the club at a time they were valuable contributors and they helped deliver us a premership.

Giving them extra years on their contracts and thus allowing us to spread their salaries out at a time we were also trying to secure long term deals for Trac, Clarry, Viney, Gawn, May, Lever and others probably also allowed us to keep that team together.  Will we also be asking the same questions in the last couple of years contracts of these guys? i.e. should they retire?

Plenty of players we pick at the national draft will probably never play a game.  Both T Mac and BBB played multiple games in the seniors when needed, with variable levels of output.

It also looks likely we will have a significant list turnover this season and a bunch of young talent.  In the current AFL envioment of limited soft cap having a few role models like T Mac and BBB around the place to teach the development squad in check and bring them up the learning curve faster could be invaluable, like having a couple of extra coaches available at your disposal.  The quality of character of T Mac and BBB is exceptional, so if we can have some of that rub off on the draftees, I think we are doing well.

[dimmy 1,308]

A few posters on this thread seem to think people are commodities.

TMac has been part of the backbone of MFC through thick and thin . We must be a Club who bind through loyalties and I feel some posters do not seem to have a loyal bone in their bodies !  I  recognise that both of them are in the twilight of their careers (bodywise), lets shwo some sembalance of respect !!!

[monoccular 17,574]

On 9/30/2023 at 9:08 AM, Demonsone said:

What Was the succession plan to replace these 2 key fwds as they were dogged with injuries & in particular brown who come with knee issues???

 

On 9/30/2023 at 9:51 AM, leave it to deever said:

None as far as I can tell. Strange.

The writing was on the wall. Tmac had a very average finish in season 21. 22 saw him all over the place but he wasn't right to play finals. Bbb did and was and wasn't sighted.  This year it was reversed with Tmac playing finals and having no impact.

Maybe the club thought Grundy would make up for them both but that didn't work.

At the end of the day the club didn't really do anything to find a replacement for either of these two when problems arose over 24 months ago.

Some will argue there was nobody to recruit but there must have been someone. Even if they had to look outside the league. The club got it wrong.  Our fwd line failed in all four finals. Big time . And the absence and or poor performance of both of these players  was  a significant part of that failure.

 

The succession plan  likely  involved Petty, JVR supported by Fritta and Melksham - stupidly they didn't think that the three experienced members of that group would all have significant injuries that impacted the structure throughout the season.    They may also have thought that the Brundy Gawn experiment would work, but that perhaps more predictably clearly didn't.

 

 

[bing181 9,328]

For reasons beyond our control, I don't believe we had the same forward set-up for any two consecutive weeks. That lack of consistency was always going to get found out, especially in finals.

You don't necessarily need stars - just look at Collingwood's forward line! But you do need players who really know how to play a role and work together.

[beelzebub 23,383]

9 hours ago, bing181 said:

For reasons beyond our control, I don't believe we had the same forward set-up for any two consecutive weeks. That lack of consistency was always going to get found out, especially in finals.

You don't necessarily need stars - just look at Collingwood's forward line! But you do need players who really know how to play a role and work together.

Not just the players...but methodology 

[IRW 1,387]

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Not just the players...but methodology 

Or find a way to draft The Munster and Johnathon Cleary.

Getting Bobby Hill to work with Kozzis on  marking might help as well

[Redleg 41,451]

15 hours ago, dimmy said:

A few posters on this thread seem to think people are commodities.

TMac has been part of the backbone of MFC through thick and thin . We must be a Club who bind through loyalties and I feel some posters do not seem to have a loyal bone in their bodies !  I  recognise that both of them are in the twilight of their careers (bodywise), lets shwo some sembalance of respect !!!

Part of showing respect to a player is to have a heart to heart with them, outlining where they are at.

If the FD feels they won't play senior footy in the next season, then a retirement with a payment, has them leaving as a senior player, not a reserves player, who played on too long.

Conversations need to be honest and respectful as you say, but the player needs to know the lay of the land and then be allowed to make a decision, on how they want to end their time at the club.

That is the respect that you afford your long term players.

I would think most players with pride want to go out near the top, not the bottom, thereby harming their playing reputation. 

[Redleg 41,451]

11 hours ago, bing181 said:

For reasons beyond our control, I don't believe we had the same forward set-up for any two consecutive weeks. That lack of consistency was always going to get found out, especially in finals.

You don't necessarily need stars - just look at Collingwood's forward line! But you do need players who really know how to play a role and work together.

There is probably not a flag winner who didn't have luck with injuries, allowing consistency of performance.

Last year we were banged up and this year we were ravaged by injuries.

[640MD 3,431]

How about a transition from player to a coaching or development role at both Casey and Gosch’s paddock.

keeps them training,

keeps a productive return 

keeps the football knowledge 

instructs the youngsters how to train

thats for both players 

are their payments part of our cap or do they really need to retire 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,878]

7 hours ago, Redleg said:

Part of showing respect to a player is to have a heart to heart with them, outlining where they are at.

If the FD feels they won't play senior footy in the next season, then a retirement with a payment, has them leaving as a senior player, not a reserves player, who played on too long.

Conversations need to be honest and respectful as you say, but the player needs to know the lay of the land and then be allowed to make a decision, on how they want to end their time at the club.

That is the respect that you afford your long term players.

I would think most players with pride want to go out near the top, not the bottom, thereby harming their playing reputation. 

Our football department and the players involved are all quality individuals, so I'm fully confident that those types of conversations would be being had if that's where things are at.

But who knows maybe the players, fitness and medical staff have some kind of belief that there is something still worth persevering with and want to squeeze every last drop out of their careers.  I'll be fascinated to see what might be left in their careers.  Melksham looked a bit past it 12 - 18 months ago, was struggling for a senior spot and look at the contribution he was still able to make.

Each individual is different.  Hibbo called it a day when he thought his body and playing capasity was on the cliff edge or just a little over.  To be honest, I was amazed he was so good last season and even the games he did play this year.  Maybe others don't have the aversion to potentially playing mostly reserves and just want to hang onto being involved in that elite environment for as long as they can.  Whatever the case, I agree with @dimmy that these guys have earnt the right to call it a day on whatever their own terms might be.

[DeeZone 10,130]

I agree with Dimmy that BB & TMac have earnt the right to be treated with dignity as their careers draw to a close. Their contracts as previously mentioned are sunk costs for 2024, the issue that I and possibly others are struggling with is that we have a great draft hand but are lacking list spots to match our draft hand and I cannot see how we free these spots up without paying out One or both of Benny and Tommy Mac. It’s a bloody nightmare.!!

[Demonsone 2,044]

Both played a pivotal role in our premiership, unfortunately injuries have impacted their ability, loosing 2 kpp is tough & should be treated with respect as premiership players …club though still needs to make tough decisions to maximise the whatever window is left to win a flag… 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

Happy to keep BBB for another year provided we don't nurse him for 85% of the season.

I wonder how worse off we would've been if we selected BBB over T Mac in the Carlton final. He was apparently in full training that week.

[BScotti 178]

listening to the Tradies podcast with McClure and Cleary they indicated it is likely that Brown will retire

[Demons1858 1,766]

On 04/10/2023 at 17:39, BScotti said:

listening to the Tradies podcast with McClure and Cleary they indicated it is likely that Brown will retire

Wonder if they are trying to get insurance to pay him out. Can't see tmac or BBB retiring and leaving money on the table, who would. tmac looked after the club already by flattening and extending his contact

[Wizard of Koz 1,128]

We should make Brown the goal kicking coach and get him off the boos like Luke Shuey did at WC. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,589]

On 04/10/2023 at 16:39, BScotti said:

listening to the Tradies podcast with McClure and Cleary they indicated it is likely that Brown will retire

No update on this.  BBB must be hopeful still but simply he couldn’t run in his last two games after half time. It was sad. BBB was a big part of 21GF ❤️  but sad to see him struggling to get out on the park.  We need him fit and if not possible, then tough call required.  Seems to have a good coaching role possible and his off field contribution to charity shows a man of the highest quality.  

[dazzledavey36 55,360]

Yeah.. don't think he's retiring unfortunately. 

[Redleg 41,451]

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yeah.. don't think he's retiring unfortunately. 

If he believes his knee is now ok, then going on is fine for his last year.

I think the one we should be looking at is Tom Mac, who has/had foot issues and is totally immobile and seemingly incapable of having any impact.

 

[dazzledavey36 55,360]

11 minutes ago, Redleg said:

If he believes his knee is now ok, then going on is fine for his last year.

I think the one we should be looking at is Tom Mac, who has/had foot issues and is totally immobile and seemingly incapable of having any impact.

 

But his knee isn't fine 'red'. Since 2019 Brown hasn't been able to complete a full season due to knee issues. That's damming in itself. 

His body is completely unreliable and when our forward line was at our most vulnerable during the finals he wasn't available because he'd just come out of rehab from his knee issues. That's the time we needed a fully fit Ben Brown.

I like the guy, but right now, I'd much rather a fit mature age key forward on our list then Brown/McDonald. 

[Jaded No More 68,974]

I love how we want Petty to stay while he’s contracted but we are happy to throw Ben Brown and Tom McDonald away. 
You have to honor contracts, what sort of club would we be if we pushed guys into retirement while contracted? You just don’t do that. Poor optics all around. 

These two are not stopping us in any way from doing what we want with our list.