A new forward/kicking coach and a psychiatrist to sort out what’s going on between the ears. We have wilted badly in 4 consecutive finals at home with big crowds. Pressure? Enormity of the moment? But we don’t seem to handle them well (anymore?). 

12 minutes ago, picket fence said:

A new Coach would be a good start! Goodwin has officially lost me!

He really has developed some players; he really has ignored some players. His message is obviously unclear and has been for quite a few years. We need pace all over the ground and vastly improved foot skills. We need plans to apply the forward craft, multiple plans, adaptive players, team cohesion instead of low percentage forward entries, ad nauseum. We need a new coach capable of thinking outside the square who develops varied game plans that fully exploit our talents.

It’s @binman s contention that our game plan is built for finals - one behind the contest, lose the clearances but score on the rebound apparently.

Ignore the bombing in it is argued because statistically it still delivers enough score and anyway we don’t have the elite kicks to do something else

On the evidence that got us one GF but it now demands reconsideration 

On personnel I think we lack a quality tall defender Gawn succession midfield pace and a tall fwd

we have invested heavily in inside mids 

The return on investment there needs to be considered

Our window is closing before our eyes. 

May, Max, Salem, Langdon and Viney as good as they are have likely played their best footy. We need to figure out who takes their spots when they decline which will come very quickly .Grundy anyone lol.

Teams are going to go past us very quickly unless we get some dare back. We played predictable, safe boring footy a lot this year 

Need some pace, clean ball use and a complete overhaul on F50 entries.

7 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Trade ideal - a solid-bodied, competitive forward who can contribute some ruck support and allow our younger and/or smaller talls to develop with a bit of protection.

Draft ideal - a couple of smart and capable tall defenders and a couple of energetic playmakers. (E.g. Curtin, O'Sullivan, Moir, Brown)

New forward line coach.

Also, better lawyers.

Seriously, the way the tribunal is going, the legal teams should be included in the footy dept soft cap.

Marbiol Chol perhaps? , I haven't watched many GC games so not sure if he's what we need.

Although to be honest I'd prefer that we were a chance at one of O. Allen, one of the King brothers or McKay. But unlikely of course.

BBB and TMac retiring should give us the cap and list space for that KPF.

We need to recruit the next Steven May and probably add more class to our midfield (skills are lacking).

7 minutes ago, dino rover said:

It’s @binman s contention that our game plan is built for finals - one behind the contest, lose the clearances but score on the rebound apparently.

Ignore the bombing in it is argued because statistically it still delivers enough score and anyway we don’t have the elite kicks to do something else

On the evidence that got us one GF but it now demands reconsideration 

On personnel I think we lack a quality tall defender Gawn succession midfield pace and a tall fwd

we have invested heavily in inside mids 

The return on investment there needs to be considered

I think we also bomb it because that way the ball is marked or drops close to the goal square, where you don't need to be an elite kick to create goals.

See for example Curnow, takes a mark outside 50 maybe 55 m out and he almost gets a goal (touched on the line).

Besides Fritsch and at some extent JVR/Petty, we don't have reliable kicks in our list. So we need the perfect angle and distance to create a score. That's not gonna happen in finals.

1/ New Forward Coach that has had some experience as a forwardline line player (not as a resting ruck) 

2/ New midfield coach. Sorry Oooze loved you as a player (forward) but for a team with a generational ruckman and the talent at your disposal we don’t dominate clearance like we should and our connection with forwards is putrid.
 

3/ Recruit / draft for the front half of the ground. I want to balance our list up with some outside speed and silk. We have too Much inside and not enough outside. I do not want to see any defenders added to the list this year. Defence is not our problem this year or last year for that matter.

4/ Put some value on offence. Recognise that defensively we are strong, we are a good inside team but please put some value on offence and give ourselves the best chance to score,  not play to protect your back line because quite frankly to me that is anti football. We looked good this year when we have an attacking focus and are capable of scoring big. 
 

5/ Do not put all of our draft bounty into the one player, although he may be a great player, one player will not fix us.

Edited September 15, 20231 yr by Dee Viney Intervention

18 minutes ago, ElDiablo14 said:

I think we also bomb it because that way the ball is marked or drops close to the goal square, where you don't need to be an elite kick to create goals.

See for example Curnow, takes a mark outside 50 maybe 55 m out and he almost gets a goal (touched on the line).

Besides Fritsch and at some extent JVR/Petty, we don't have reliable kicks in our list. So we need the perfect angle and distance to create a score. That's not gonna happen in finals.

Ironically we have Ben Brown, Jake Melksham, Tom McDonald to add to JVR and petty who are all excellent set shots but unfortunately none played last night.  

I think the coaching staff also owe a few blokes an apology over the preseason/exit period. They may all be gone but Tommo, Laurie, Woey, Dunstan, Melk, Hibbo, Ben Brown, JJ and Spargs could all feel hard done by.

They may not be the absolute best option at times but selection integrity has been a disaster. We’ve stuck with a system and group of players that have fallen short for two years straight.

Ultimately, the stubbornness and system have failed that group and the club in general.

I think there will be considerable movement over this off-season and we’ll find the club isn’t quite as harmonious as it should be 

Edited September 15, 20231 yr by BW511

We are screaming out for a genuine key forward or two! We must target one in the trade period and move on BBB and Tmac.

Petty is an exciting prospect but also a touch injury prone. There is room for both Petty and a new key forward recruit. 

7 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

a clean bill of health and a bit of luck wouldn't go astray

Underated elements. It takes so much of everything AND luck to win flags...or if not luck then at least not the bad luck we had at the end of the season. Injury cursed year sadly. 

7 hours ago, dee-tox said:

1. Get Matt Flynn in as a free agent.

2. Draft Duursma/McKercher and O'Sullivan as first round picks.

3. Get Blake Howes fit and firing for 2024. Can replace Hunter whose lack of kicking depth is a problem.

4. Use second round picks to poach a 195cm + pack busting key forward and/or a tall hard running mid that is an elite kick.

5. Examine Chocco's role as goal kicking coach. Abject failure this year.

6. Two new assistant coaches. Get on the phone to the likes of hated former players like Joel Selwood or Trent Cotchin.

7. Prune the dead wood if possible. Pay out contracts of BBB and TMac, free agents Jordon, Tomlinson and Harmes. Delist Dunstan and maybe Melksham.

8. Scour the VFL for the best mature players with upside.

Not a bad start.👏👏

Where do you start? Even if we won last night, it would have been painting over the cracks. Aside from our top end talent and foot soldiers, we have no obvious depth.

At the start of the year we traded for Grundy, who can't take a contested mark, so it was pretty obvious our gameplan to bomb into the forward line would continue. Took us half a season to work it out, but then lose Petty and Melksham. IMO, our season was done once those 2 went down.

Tim Lamb and Jason Taylor need to be held accountable. Why are we bringing in mature aged players like Dunstan and Schache when we have no intention of playing them, even when a like for like gets injured. And we need to do a better job of extending contracts for fringe players like T Mac and Spargo. They become list cloggers.

Aside from McAdam, go to the draft and get the best kids.

And pray that JVR and Petty stay fit all next year.

6 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I think the coaching staff also owe a few blokes an apology over the preseason/exit period. They may all be gone but Tommo, Laurie, Woey, Dunstan, Melk, Hibbo, Ben Brown, JJ and Spargs could all feel hard done by.

They may not be the absolute best option at times but selection integrity has been a disaster. We’ve stuck with a system and group of players that have fallen short for two years straight.

Ultimately, the stubbornness and system have failed that group and the club in general.

I think there will be considerable movement over this off-season and we’ll find the club isn’t quite as harmonious as it should be 

Yep. Interesting watch this space. 

Nick Riewoldt albeit grand finals losses said they put so much effort for 2 seasons for little reward, it broke them. 

Max saying it's very Melbourne way of losing shows the players have lost their faith in the fwd entry structures. 

Max and May are 32 next year. 

Harry Petty, Daniel Turner, Jacob Van Rooyen need big preseasons. 

Howes AMW Taj need to be better and be regulars. 

We need new blood to rejuvenate cause the same 22-25 will be mentally shot if we play the same team. 

7 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

. Another wing to put selection pressure on Langdon and Hunter

Can that other winger be tall?

7 hours ago, leucopogon said:

A couple of highly skilled outside types like Jimmy Toumpas and Cale Morton.

Don’t forget Luke Tapscott.

2024 

where are the improvements 

+ Petty JVR 

+ Howes + Woey + AMW + Daniel Turner 

+ McAdam 

+ 4-5 young draft picks 

and more … 

Three Errol Guldens, please.

I personally feel our list management team have rightly been given credit for building a premiership winning list. But I don’t think we improved enough last off season, particularly compared to another premiership contender in Brisbane. The Grundy experiment was one of the most bizarre trades of all time and as serviceable as Hunter has been he hasn’t really improved us. I think for us to improve next year both Langdon and Hunter’s positions should be under threat from Taj and Rivers. I would also look at having Turner train with the forwards and recruit another tall back and hopefully we can draft a smart and skilful midfielder. I think our list management over the next year will be some of our most important in recent memory. 

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

A couple of forwards with decent disposal/ foot skills. Some of our losses this year:

9.17 loss by 2 +8 scores 
7.11 loss by 7 +3 scores
5.15 loss by 2 +8 scores
8.15 loss by 15 +0 scores
10.12 loss by 7 +3 scores

 

An indictment on composure 

7 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

FCS get a new forward line coach.  Been calling this since half way through 2022.

Would Gary Ablet Jnr be available?  That's if he'd be willing.

The lack of method, craft. leading and the number of poor deliveries is laughable.

Whatever Choco's doing with his goal kicking academy isn't working.  How Kozzy can't split the middle from 30 meters out directly in front is mind boggling.   Often struggles to make the distance even from there.

His approach / method has not changed one iota this season under Choco.  No penetration and rarely converts.

Ditto Spargo and Chandler.

Our other smalls / small - mediums rarely hit the scoreboard either.

Same with our mids.

We just aren't getting the return from the above in front of goal.

Swap kozzie for pick one, grab Watson with pick five

58 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I think the coaching staff also owe a few blokes an apology over the preseason/exit period. They may all be gone but Tommo, Laurie, Woey, Dunstan, Melk, Hibbo, Ben Brown, JJ and Spargs could all feel hard done by.

They may not be the absolute best option at times but selection integrity has been a disaster. We’ve stuck with a system and group of players that have fallen short for two years straight.

Ultimately, the stubbornness and system have failed that group and the club in general.

I think there will be considerable movement over this off-season and we’ll find the club isn’t quite as harmonious as it should be 

BBB - wouldn’t still be on a list of any other elite sport in the world 

Dunstan - 2’s player 

Woey - had a taste as a kid

Laurie - can argue he could’ve had more chances but only would’ve proven he’s not up to it yet

Hibbo - played plenty 

Melk - was awful the last few years in any role other than his tall disruptor role

Tomlinson - how this guy has any fans is beyond me, just a very ordinary footballer 

Spargo - struggled to adapt to the new high contact rule, he’ll be back 

JJ - meh, it’s JJ. 

The idea we should make 3-4 changes week in week out isn’t selection integrity. It’s Luke Beveridge style nonsense that doesn’t help anyone 

1 hour ago, dino rover said:

It’s @binman s contention that our game plan is built for finals - one behind the contest, lose the clearances but score on the rebound apparently.

Ignore the bombing in it is argued because statistically it still delivers enough score and anyway we don’t have the elite kicks to do something else

On the evidence that got us one GF but it now demands reconsideration 

On personnel I think we lack a quality tall defender Gawn succession midfield pace and a tall fwd

we have invested heavily in inside mids 

The return on investment there needs to be considered

Binman IMO is toeing the party line that that's what Goody has assessed our list is best suited way to attack by concentrating on repeat chances if the ball is kept in the arc.

He has not offered an alternative opinion and is justifying that as we have the 2021 Flag under Goody a good chance to repeat this year not to question it. 

The last 10 mins of the second quarter snd a reasonable portion of the second half this played out much in that fashion. 

However as happens we failed to score enough to win as in last week, and another few losses such as GWS snd Carlton in Round 22.

My take on this is damming. While we have various midfield inside bulls and forwards heavily invested in defence it takes away the natural flair and dare  etc to attack plus IMO creates confusion in the minds of our forwards and mids resulting in a crowded mess of players forming packs and scrums. We also are not sharp at snapshots. Yesterday proved that again. 

To me it's far too defensive in practice and mind boggling in giving footballers this plan to execute.

Surely after this has failed consistently in our losses it seems to me that our list is not versatile enough to handle this method under real pressure and it should be abandoned. 

If I have misunderstood this In any way I apologise. 

Binman May wish to comment of course about my interpretation. 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

An indictment on composure 

Inside 50's also would be pertinent. 

8 hours ago, Doug Reemer said:

A heartbeat.

You are kidding mate.  This team although inaccurate absolutely give their all every week and there is no way people can question their effort.  They are a brutal footy team and we just need a key forward.   A fit Petty will slot in down back again next year and if we can wrench a ready made power forward from somewhere to stand with JVR we will back bigger than better