PREGAME: SF vs Carlton

[beelzebub 23,382]

Bop Bop....Bopping the Blues.....

( a little long...perhaps get a red, a beer or a panadol.... )

There's an old adage; If it aint broke ...don't fix it. Agruably conversely if it is BROKEN....you amy well want to FIX it !!

Our predicament is we enter all games currently as a game of two halves... Not quarters per se....but a Front Half and a back half.  Our Defence work's pretty good most of the time and certainly isn't the prime concern. Our front half is....let's be polite....broken.

It bumbled along quite ok until recently whilst we had Petty , who finally found his straps and it started working. Alas poor Petty...we knew him well..      Enter stage left.... Melksham.  A more than handy replacement as it turned out.....and then....well....

Since then...quite frankly it's a shambles. No coherence, no connect.  Now there's a word..and indeed the crux of the dilemma ( imho )...CONNECTION.  From the back half to the front hald there is bugger all. And that's where it all comes apart.

Strangley you win games by scoring. Defending is good  but that as such doesn't go up on the scoreboard.

What to do ??

Now some might have a good chuckle ( or just a chuck ) at what follows.  We move the magnets.

A role that Milky played was tobe the link between the two halves...as it came out of the half back through the wing or ,l occasionally the guts he was often there to mark and keep the bal lgoing to a forward...and a forward in a good scoring position ( very VERY important )

Back in the day this was pretty much what Tommy Mac would also do...Float fairly high as a HF and collect and deliver.

This is where we fall down. We need that High Half Forward type todraw the ball and in turn spot up a goal kicker

Where oh where tofind such a beast. Strangley enough he's right in front of us..A co-member of the 'failed' forward experiment. None other than Maxxy Max.  If he wasnt a ruck an independent unbiased observer might be mistaken for thinking he'd make an excellent CHF ( but not too close to goal ) In fact if we take the Dee-Goggles off for a tic  and watch, he actually does this role anyway..    He slots in somewhere on that half forward line...and marks.

Thats exactly what you want roaming along that territory...someone who 1)  Knows where to be 2) Can take a mark ( oftern in a pack ) 3) has some idea what to do with it afterwards.  Indeed if close enough have a crack....and hes been kinownto slot a few in a final...Handy !!

But ....but....but........

But what ??

You can't take Max out of the ruck......

Why Not ???... if only we had someone who could take that Role....if only we had.....     oh wait !!!

The bleedingly obvious solution is of course Grundy....  yeah... I know...only an AA Ruck...in pretty good nick   ...

That's , imho , what you do..Let Brodie ruck most of the ground .  If the ball falls forward  either Tommy or Max can take it whatever seems a better idea a that ( particular) moment

Forward structure.. the previously mentioned hot zone.   Thats gunna be Tommy's new home for the most part. He doesnt have to roamnearly as far as is HF... He knows how to mark, knows how to kick.   The other forwards..  let Frita off the leash..let him roam.. Cancel Kozzi's pilot licence...ground him... intruct to lead and crumb...and be Johnny on the spot in the forward arc creatinig mayhem..He IS very good at that. He needs a reset, a refocssing.

We need the ball to come back towards the corridor going forward.  We need someone to direct,organise thiings a bit... Someone who CAN NOT be disregarded..someone who's leads and presence MUST be heeded...Again this is MAX  ...burn him at your peril.

Keep the entries more central...   The reporting of some 'coaching' ( and that must be a very loose interpretation)  of 'clump" techniques in the pocket ....I mean wtf !!  someone has absolutley NFI if thats the case. Have we become so 'defensive' orientatated that we  have forgotten how to attack...to play forward... i.e  be brave enough to score ??

A caveat to all of this is not to crowd each other ...divide the defenders. This idea of british bulldog  forward footy...give it away...it's rubbish.   ( and more the point well worked out rubbish now )

It will be hard to keep Trac forward now I guess..  But we need to find someone(s) with flair  who can rotate through the middle and let Christian be dangerous

Do you entertain bringing Woey back and have some limited time in the guts as well as forward ...  in a fashion that's the second tier element to the problem...but any number of possibilities there.

The main one...the BIG FIX is to rejig the forward  game....and it really wouldn't take that much. Thery're all kinda there...thereabouts...    just the set up is WRONG

Let Grundy do what he is very capable of doing...and release the Max

The pairing in a fashion of Max and Brodie is , for mine...still full of potential.....  just not how it's been done to date.

We have nothing to lose..  If we keep repeating what hasnt worked....well guess what !!!

 

likelihood of happening....  nada

thanks for humouring me by reading.....that's my say...     now off you all go to snicker...sneeze...guffaw...

Go Dees

 

 

[dazzledavey36 55,315]

 

[Nascent 9,280]

1 minute ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

Now watch Martin's suspension get downgraded.

[beelzebub 23,382]

3 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

exactly why is that smart ??  Only dumbo Raply  seems to think such.

Would Carlton..Collingwood roll over...like f they will

[Demonland 73,120]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

Media is unbelievable. If this was another player from another team they’d be jumping up and down. FWIW I don’t think we should have appealed as it wouldn’t get overturned or downgraded. 

i can’t Martin’s getting overturned either but this is Carlton and they have a great record in this department. 

[Demonland 73,120]

14 hours ago, Trisul said:

7.50am match @Demonland ? 

In the spirit of appropriate production support escalation, I will raise a ticket in the Critical category. 

Fixed

[binman 43,717]

4 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

The risk of pressing so high is that we get caught over the back occasionally but our defence was excellent for the most part. But Collingwood only had 15 shots for the whole game and just 9 shots after quarter time. I wouldn't be changing the way we defend.

The issue with our tactics is much more with our ball use inside 50 (and our forwards competing better to get the ball to ground).

Exactly.

We actually defended them really well on transition.

They are always going to get some goals out the back just as we are always going to scrounge goals from our bombs inside 50

As Binman's PA has pointed out we kept them below the season average we concede from points from turnover, and half of that was in the first quarter. 

The problem is we could only manage half our season average of 51 points from turnover. But again the devil is in the detail. We kicked 3 goals 7 from turnovers and they kicked 6 goals 4 from turnovers.

If we had kicked 7. 3 instead of 3.7 from turnover we win that game

And the other relevant, and interconnected, stat is we we kept them to 26 points from their back half (and only 13 points from their D50) just a tick over the season average of points we concede from the back half.

But could only average 16 ourselves (because of inaccuracy and the fact the ball was camped in our forward half for 3 quarters) - less than half our season average of 33 points from the defensive half. 

Edited September 11, 2023 by binman

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,959]

Why would we not even try, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by at least contesting it. Everything about us is conservative. No stone will be left unturned they say, the forward line is the least of our concerns they say. Well our dysfunctional forwardline could see us eliminated in straight sets at the MCG again!!!! You can’t help injuries but at least show some fight Melbourne. Show some passion, play like Demons off the field and on the field FFS. Good on Carlton and no doubt Collingwood for showing some intent. We may have 70 000 members which is outstanding but we are not a big club yet.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Dee Viney Intervention

[Young Angus 802]

Maybe the Melbourne grown-ups think JVR just deserve a smack on the bum for doing what he did, so they're just letting it lie so he can think about what he did.  Was pretty silly really, fight or no fight there's no way we'd think it was very reasonable or mature if a rival club went to defend something as brazen as that elbow.  

I want him in too, but he was a naughty boy.

[old55 23,687]

37 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

 

I think it's very likely we're working behind the scenes to promote with the AFL that head contact is out of the question and that Maynard should get his just desserts. It would be pretty hypocritical to challenge JVR's suspension at the same time

 

[Mel Bourne 4,534]

6 minutes ago, old55 said:

I think it's very likely we're working behind the scenes to promote with the AFL that head contact is out of the question and that Maynard should get his just desserts. It would be pretty hypocritical to challenge JVR's suspension at the same time

 

Even if we’re not working behind the scenes, the messaging is correct: we don’t expect to have it both ways. 
 

Let’s hope that message gets through. 

[Roost it far 8,575]

You can't kick up a fuss over Maynard and then expect your player to get off for unnecessarily elbowing a guy in the head in the same match. You look like an [censored] doing that. 

[gs77 4,441]

3 hours ago, No. 31 said:

Jack Martin will get 1 week. 2 weeks is excessive.

He is a big out for the Blues but it may be that Jack Silvagni comes back in.

It's been two generations since opponents were concerned by news a Silvagni was an in.

[Jaded No More 68,972]

Right call not to challenge. We could have argued the impact was low, but realistically it was a bloody stupid and dangerous thing to do, and unlike Collingwood, we don't condone that [censored] from our players.

Now JVR gets to miss playing in a final. Hope he learns. 

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Bop Bop....Bopping the Blues.....

( a little long...perhaps get a red, a beer or a panadol.... )

There's an old adage; If it aint broke ...don't fix it. Agruably conversely if it is BROKEN....you amy well want to FIX it !!

Our predicament is we enter all games currently as a game of two halves... Not quarters per se....but a Front Half and a back half.  Our Defence work's pretty good most of the time and certainly isn't the prime concern. Our front half is....let's be polite....broken.

It bumbled along quite ok until recently whilst we had Petty , who finally found his straps and it started working. Alas poor Petty...we knew him well..      Enter stage left.... Melksham.  A more than handy replacement as it turned out.....and then....well....

Since then...quite frankly it's a shambles. No coherence, no connect.  Now there's a word..and indeed the crux of the dilemma ( imho )...CONNECTION.  From the back half to the front hald there is bugger all. And that's where it all comes apart.

Strangley you win games by scoring. Defending is good  but that as such doesn't go up on the scoreboard.

What to do ??

Now some might have a good chuckle ( or just a chuck ) at what follows.  We move the magnets.

A role that Milky played was tobe the link between the two halves...as it came out of the half back through the wing or ,l occasionally the guts he was often there to mark and keep the bal lgoing to a forward...and a forward in a good scoring position ( very VERY important )

Back in the day this was pretty much what Tommy Mac would also do...Float fairly high as a HF and collect and deliver.

This is where we fall down. We need that High Half Forward type todraw the ball and in turn spot up a goal kicker

Where oh where tofind such a beast. Strangley enough he's right in front of us..A co-member of the 'failed' forward experiment. None other than Maxxy Max.  If he wasnt a ruck an independent unbiased observer might be mistaken for thinking he'd make an excellent CHF ( but not too close to goal ) In fact if we take the Dee-Goggles off for a tic  and watch, he actually does this role anyway..    He slots in somewhere on that half forward line...and marks.

Thats exactly what you want roaming along that territory...someone who 1)  Knows where to be 2) Can take a mark ( oftern in a pack ) 3) has some idea what to do with it afterwards.  Indeed if close enough have a crack....and hes been kinownto slot a few in a final...Handy !!

But ....but....but........

But what ??

You can't take Max out of the ruck......

Why Not ???... if only we had someone who could take that Role....if only we had.....     oh wait !!!

The bleedingly obvious solution is of course Grundy....  yeah... I know...only an AA Ruck...in pretty good nick   ...

That's , imho , what you do..Let Brodie ruck most of the ground .  If the ball falls forward  either Tommy or Max can take it whatever seems a better idea a that ( particular) moment

Forward structure.. the previously mentioned hot zone.   Thats gunna be Tommy's new home for the most part. He doesnt have to roamnearly as far as is HF... He knows how to mark, knows how to kick.   The other forwards..  let Frita off the leash..let him roam.. Cancel Kozzi's pilot licence...ground him... intruct to lead and crumb...and be Johnny on the spot in the forward arc creatinig mayhem..He IS very good at that. He needs a reset, a refocssing.

We need the ball to come back towards the corridor going forward.  We need someone to direct,organise thiings a bit... Someone who CAN NOT be disregarded..someone who's leads and presence MUST be heeded...Again this is MAX  ...burn him at your peril.

Keep the entries more central...   The reporting of some 'coaching' ( and that must be a very loose interpretation)  of 'clump" techniques in the pocket ....I mean wtf !!  someone has absolutley NFI if thats the case. Have we become so 'defensive' orientatated that we  have forgotten how to attack...to play forward... i.e  be brave enough to score ??

A caveat to all of this is not to crowd each other ...divide the defenders. This idea of british bulldog  forward footy...give it away...it's rubbish.   ( and more the point well worked out rubbish now )

It will be hard to keep Trac forward now I guess..  But we need to find someone(s) with flair  who can rotate through the middle and let Christian be dangerous

Do you entertain bringing Woey back and have some limited time in the guts as well as forward ...  in a fashion that's the second tier element to the problem...but any number of possibilities there.

The main one...the BIG FIX is to rejig the forward  game....and it really wouldn't take that much. Thery're all kinda there...thereabouts...    just the set up is WRONG

Let Grundy do what he is very capable of doing...and release the Max

The pairing in a fashion of Max and Brodie is , for mine...still full of potential.....  just not how it's been done to date.

We have nothing to lose..  If we keep repeating what hasnt worked....well guess what !!!

 

likelihood of happening....  nada

thanks for humouring me by reading.....that's my say...     now off you all go to snicker...sneeze...guffaw...

Go Dees

 

 

I love a lot of this! in Fact off the top of my head I can't even think of something I would like to disagree with, even for the sake of disagreement (and I am a lawyer, so I have form). MAYBE Kozzie in the midfield as I have enjoyed seeing him there to get involved. But you're right, if we ground him, he is fantastic at picking up the stuff probably no other guy on the ground will get to. Smarts and skills off the chart.

We have the ingredients to make something delicious here, but are we going to be brave enough to use the right ones, and use them in the right way? 

The idea that some have put forward Schache/Jefferson instead of Grundy is wild. But I get it. We lost SOME of those games and arguably had better results with just Max, but as he has said himself, Max was in an ordinary form for a while. People are understandably spooked by bringing Grundy back. It can't hurt though. He's a more reliable prospect than Schache and certainly Jefferson. It'll mean Max has to sacrifice a bit, but he's the captain, he may understand we need to do things differently to get the win which is more important. Because if we don't, we won't get to plan for next week, we'll be talking about *gulp* learnings.

The alternative is to try untested/unreliables, and do what we did last week. Which may work, but it might not unless we mysteriously get better at i50 delivery. Our accuracy is likely to be better, but there's no guarantee. 

Very interested to see how this unfolds. We are on the cusp of straight sets #2 - I'd love to see some cojones and of course the boys coming out from the first bounce with fire in the belly and a destroy Carlton attitude (which should come naturally to everyone anyway). 

[layzie 33,989]

It can be done, but we need to get some kind of devine demon force working in our favour. Something that will have everyone shaking in their boots as we beat Carlton and then start well against Brisbane, gaining momentum. 

When other teams have caught fire in the past at this point of the season it almost seems like it's more likely to happen than not. In hindsight that Bulldogs charge two years ago was pretty scary. 

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

12 minutes ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

I love a lot of this! in Fact off the top of my head I can't even think of something I would like to disagree with, even for the sake of disagreement (and I am a lawyer, so I have form). MAYBE Kozzie in the midfield as I have enjoyed seeing him there to get involved. But you're right, if we ground him, he is fantastic at picking up the stuff probably no other guy on the ground will get to. Smarts and skills off the chart.

We have the ingredients to make something delicious here, but are we going to be brave enough to use the right ones, and use them in the right way? 

The idea that some have put forward Schache/Jefferson instead of Grundy is wild. But I get it. We lost SOME of those games and arguably had better results with just Max, but as he has said himself, Max was in an ordinary form for a while. People are understandably spooked by bringing Grundy back. It can't hurt though. He's a more reliable prospect than Schache and certainly Jefferson. It'll mean Max has to sacrifice a bit, but he's the captain, he may understand we need to do things differently to get the win which is more important. Because if we don't, we won't get to plan for next week, we'll be talking about *gulp* learnings.

The alternative is to try untested/unreliables, and do what we did last week. Which may work, but it might not unless we mysteriously get better at i50 delivery. Our accuracy is likely to be better, but there's no guarantee. 

Very interested to see how this unfolds. We are on the cusp of straight sets #2 - I'd love to see some cojones and of course the boys coming out from the first bounce with fire in the belly and a destroy Carlton attitude (which should come naturally to everyone anyway). 

How many [censored] lawyers are there in this place 🤷‍♂️😂

[rolling fog 1,208]

Andy Maher just announced SEN will be doing an MFC only call on Friday night.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

Just now, rolling fog said:

Andy Maher just announced SEN will be doing an MFC only call on Friday night.

Que? Porquoi?

[Dee Zephyr 19,268]

I know it’s the way the game is played these days, but it’s very frustrating watching Petracca pace the boundary when waiting to come back on. I think he was off for 8 mins in the 3rd, maybe just keep him on the ground a little longer and play him one out in the goal square every now and then this week instead of giving him a spell. Who’s going to beat him with all that space?

[Superunknown 4,223]

9 minutes ago, rolling fog said:

Andy Maher just announced SEN will be doing an MFC only call on Friday night.

What does that mean?

[TRIGON 4,790]

1 hour ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

Why would we not even try, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain by at least contesting it. Everything about us is conservative. No stone will be left unturned they say, the forward line is the least of our concerns they say. Well our dysfunctional forwardline could see us eliminated in straight sets at the MCG again!!!! You can’t help injuries but at least show some fight Melbourne. Show some passion, play like Demons off the field and on the field FFS. Good on Carlton and no doubt Collingwood for showing some intent. We may have 70 000 members which is outstanding but we are not a big club yet.

I understand your sentiment, however you should have some grounds upon which to base your appeal. In this instance JVR's indiscretion was pretty clear cut. 

Carlton taking the punt on Jack Martin, probably arguing for Low Impact instead of Medium to get it downgraded to 1 week. Fine by me if that's where they expend their energy; happy for us to instead just focus on how to win the game.

[Superunknown 4,223]

Has anyone heard anything about Max’s foot? Some wild rumours on FB.

[Bates Mate 4,508]

30 minutes ago, rolling fog said:

Andy Maher just announced SEN will be doing an MFC only call on Friday night.

I bet Russell Robinson is involved somehow. He was singing songs outside the MCC on Thursday. Always around

[Deebymistake 783]

18 hours ago, layzie said:

This reminds me of being at the footy last year with my friend and his 8 y.o son who said "Why are Sydney so smart kicking into the 50 and Melbourne are so dumb?"

 

These kids know what they are talking about!