POSTGAME: Rd 23 vs Hawthorn

[Cassiew 1,870]

Just got home from the game and watched the replay.

Was gonna say Salem had a shocker, but he was much better than I thought. May, Melksham and Lever all solid. I think Hawks are much better than the position they’re in. They outmarked us for a lot of the game. Glad we rallied to beat them. Was great to see Gawn and Nibbler’s milestones celebrated with the win. 
bring on the finals.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Cassiew

[Kozzie4PM 765]

2 hours ago, Maldonboy38 said:

Our stoppage and clearnace work looked a but shaky (this is an opinion, I haven't looked at the stats).

Why don't you just look at the stats?

[Binmans PA 26,261]

2 hours ago, layzie said:

Trent Rivers might be our best player right now on form 

He's doing well, but he's playing as a +1 behind the ball. It's very unlikely teams will let him get away with that in the finals series. 

This is why we want more offence out of Salo and Bowser, so it's not just Riv.

He's so explosive though, he's very exciting off half back and his kicking has such great depth, so if he gets handball receives through the corridor and anywhere within 75m, he's able to hit up dangerous areas by foot from distance.

Unlike the Daicos boys, he's a really solid contested player too, so he has some strings to his bow does our bloke.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Binmans PA

[dees189227 10,847]

But disappointed to see Goodwin's comments about McGuinness. I mean that's the job of a tagger, to get under the skin of the player.

Who doesn't remember Simon Godfrey and how he annoyed the hell out of his opponents.

Maybe yze could work through with Clayton how to handle the tag

[Jaded No More 58,342]

9 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I thought Tomlinson was a liability on many occasions. Took a couple of good marks, but was constantly trailing his opponent because he's not an elite reader of the game, and he's certainly not quick.

I think today gives our MC a tough conundrum. Do you play Smith back now and play Melksham forward, alongside Fritta? If it were me, this is potentially the way I'd be leaning. And this is from someone who believes Smith is a worry in defence. But at least he's got pace to get across and impact. Tomlinson was a constant concern out the back.

Schache was considered insurance for Max, I'm sure. It would have allowed JVR to go into the ruck and for Schache to take JVRs place and potentially give him a chop out in the ruck too.

I guess I don’t see what everyone else sees with Tomlinson and the stats tell me that we rarely lose when he plays alongside May and Lever. 
Smith has far more impact as a forward. I can’t see how we play Brisbane without Tomlinson for example. 
 

I know Schache was there as insurance for Gawn. I didn’t have an issue with the sub choice. I just didn’t think we needed to sub him on while the game was still in the balance. 
He is a total liability IMO. Has no sense of urgency.  

[Demonsterative 1,979]

7 minutes ago, Kozzie4PM said:

Why don't you just look at the stats?

Being at the game live, their midfield seemed to outplay and out run us on too many occasions. 

[Maldonboy38 5,943]

7 minutes ago, Kozzie4PM said:

Why don't you just look at the stats?

I did a bit later. But at the time I was happy to go with a gut feel. 

[Roost it far 6,235]

52 minutes ago, Jack7 said:

I've taken into account that Tigers won't beat Port at AO but if you think they will, good for you,and our game is after their's.

 

No Riewoldt and Lynch and nothing to play for,Tiges ain't winning!!!

 

You should put $100 on the Tigers,it's paying $6.70

 

Good luck,Gamble Responsibly!!!

Port won’t lose but Brissie certainly can

[Jaded No More 58,342]

Just now, Demonsterative said:

Being at the game live, their midfield seemed to outplay and out run us on too many occasions. 

Well they won clearances and contested possessions so you’re right. 
We were just much much better defensively. After the first quarter Hawks couldn’t move the ball. 

[Cassiew 1,870]

2 hours ago, picket fence said:

U want to drop Kozzie to Casey???? Yeah right 😱

“Everyone gets beaten once in a while, Parker!”

[BDA 20,254]

12 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I thought Tomlinson was a liability on many occasions. Took a couple of good marks, but was constantly trailing his opponent because he's not an elite reader of the game, and he's certainly not quick.

I think today gives our MC a tough conundrum. Do you play Smith back now and play Melksham forward, alongside Fritta? If it were me, this is potentially the way I'd be leaning. And this is from someone who believes Smith is a worry in defence. But at least he's got pace to get across and impact. Tomlinson was a constant concern out the back.

Schache was considered insurance for Max, I'm sure. It would have allowed JVR to go into the ruck and for Schache to take JVRs place and potentially give him a chop out in the ruck too.

i agree on Tommo. Very slow, caught behind his opponent a few times and dropped marks. Impacted some contests but I thought he was poor overall. I get that we have a great record with him in the team but i think it's a case of correlation rather than causation. 

[Binmans PA 26,261]

3 hours ago, rpfc said:

I said this a few weeks back - we are not going to be ‘out of games’ but we will have periods of dominance that I just don’t think we are going to be able to capitalise on with the way we move the ball and the space and entries that we create.

61 Inside 50 for 87 points.

Never sneeze at a tough win against a resurgent Hawks (they need to be remain dead a bit longer so let’s hope something happens) but we have not seen our finals forward line and we have not seen the best of our ball movement.

 

Agree with this, but I don't want to see our best ball movement in Round 23 against Hawthorn at the MCG. I want to see it in September.

I also think losing Petty has robbed us of going quickly to a long contest. We're more likely to try and work by hand and short quick kicks, but we pieced together 4 or 5 good chains today.

We still haven't quite found the balance of attack v defence.

Let's see how we go now that we're guaranteed a double chance.

Ps. I think if a side goes to work on Rivers, we might struggle to move the ball from back to front quickly. He's become our Daicos over the last few weeks. He chips and handball receives and kicks with such penetration, we get great territory. As evidenced by his 496 metres gained. (our most today)

Edited August 20, 2023 by Binmans PA

[layzie 29,087]

20 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

He plays the most difficult role in the game in terms of consistency. It’s just not possible for small forwards to have great games every week.

Kosi is one of the most consistent in this role, on track for another 40 odd goals. Cyril only managed to do that twice in his entire career. Just for some perspective. 

He'll be fine. Really would have loved him to do better on that set shot but players in these positions will have quiet games.

Someone said in the gameday thread that he hasn't done anything since the contract. Seriously?

[Kozzie4PM 765]

28 minutes ago, Maldonboy38 said:

I did a bit later. But at the time I was happy to go with a gut feel. 

I don't even know what the stats are but I just find it funny when people say "I haven't seen the stats" followed by several paragraphs of opinions as if the stats aren't accessible at the touch of a button 😂.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Kozzie4PM

[Demon Dynasty 15,627]

1 hour ago, Dee Zephyr said:

In 2021 we were a flashy 3yo on the way to a Melbourne Cup.

We are now a very reliable dour stayer and we should be happy with the way we’re attacking this finals series. 

I was in awe of Jake Lever today, how he can still talk after a game is beyond me. His leadership is unbelievable and one of the best readers of play I have ever seen.

Was at his very best today.

Maysie also solid.

At one stage in the third Maysie & Lever were having words about something.  They were going back and forth for a fair while.  Hopefully just positioning / tactical stuff and nothing more.

Tomo was beaten on a few occasions but also won a few contests.  A nice nullifying encounter in a 2 v 1 (possibly 3 v 1 if you count the Hawks player roving off for the crumb) at one stage late in the third which probably saved a goal.

The oppo do look to move the ball quickly through Tomo's player a fair bit in an attempt to expose his lack of pace / agility as well as trying their best to get him out the back where possible.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Demon Dynasty

[rpfc 27,534]

4 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Agree with this, but I don't want to see our best ball movement in Round 23 against Hawthorn at the MCG. I want to see it in September.

I also think losing Petty has robbed us of going quickly to a long contest. We're more likely to try and work by hand and short quick kicks, but we pieced together 4 or 5 good chains today.

We still haven't quite found the balance of attack v defence.

Let's see how we go now that we're guaranteed a double chance.

Ps. I think if a side goes to work on Rivers, we might struggle to move the ball from back to front quickly. He's become our Daicos over the last few weeks. He chips and handball receives and kicks with such penetrating, we get great territory. As evidenced by his 496 metres gained.

Yeah, I agree, we have improvement in us but as a warning and a possible explainer for an impotent September, it’s important to note where we’re at.

As for Rivers - it is so important we keep him free to ignite. 

[whatwhat say what 19,144]

4 minutes ago, Kozzie4PM said:

I don't even know what the stats are but I just find it funny when people say "I haven't seen the stats" followed by several paragraphs of opinions as if the stats are accessible at the touch of a button 😂.

well, the stats ARE accessible at the touch of a button

[DeeSpencer 23,224]

5 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

Ps. I think if a side goes to work on Rivers, we might struggle to move the ball from back to front quickly.

Consistent ball movement seems to be our biggest challenge. I hope Salo can be back near his best come finals as well as Bowey and for the improvements Lever and May have shown at times to stick.

The big room for improvement is in our midfield spread and run. The Hawks ran like crazy for a half today and apart from Viney we were flagging. I’d like to see Fritsch as a flanker/de facto CHF and leave Melk as is rather than Fritsch at full forward.

That would allow more Tracc on ball and hopefully in combination with Oliver at near his best we get our midfield charge game back. 

[layzie 29,087]

14 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

He's doing well, but he's playing as a +1 behind the ball. It's very unlikely teams will let him get away with that in the finals series. 

This is why we want more offence out of Salo and Bowser, so it's not just Riv.

He's so explosive though, he's very exciting off half back and his kicking has such great depth, so if he gets handball receives through the corridor and anywhere within 75m, he's able to hit up dangerous areas by foot from distance.

Unlike the Daicos boys, he's a really solid contested player too, so he has some strings to his bow does our bloke.

Very true Mr AF (aka Binman's PA).

True test will be finals but man he's good overhead for his size!

[layzie 29,087]

16 minutes ago, Cassiew said:

“Everyone gets beaten once in a while, Parker!”

One of my favs!

[picket fence 15,299]

Clarry is still not right ..Inj IMV

Edited August 20, 2023 by picket fence

[Fat Tony 4,447]

30 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

I thought Tomlinson was a liability on many occasions. Took a couple of good marks, but was constantly trailing his opponent because he's not an elite reader of the game, and he's certainly not quick.

I think today gives our MC a tough conundrum. Do you play Smith back now and play Melksham forward, alongside Fritta? If it were me, this is potentially the way I'd be leaning. And this is from someone who believes Smith is a worry in defence. But at least he's got pace to get across and impact. Tomlinson was a constant concern out the back.

Schache was considered insurance for Max, I'm sure. It would have allowed JVR to go into the ruck and for Schache to take JVRs place and potentially give him a chop out in the ruck too.

May looked like he pulled up sore in the last quarter. 
 

I wonder if Disco Turner isn’t without a chance of replacing Tomlinson. I think he’s worth considering. 

[Binmans PA 26,261]

1 hour ago, DEE fence said:

Has anyone else noticed how much love Kossie has for Trac? I feel like Kossie sees himself as Trac's bodyguard or something, but if anyone niggles Trac, regardless of how minor, Kossie comes running in like you slapped his mum or something. To me it speaks to Trac's leadership and the relationship he built with a very shy kid(with oodles of talent and more than a tad lethal). Also can't help but wonder if that is part of the reason why he is still a Dee. Anyway don't worry about Kossie, some big games coming.    

The amount of touches Kozzy got today we're irrelevant IMO. He was constantly tracking runners, so that Hawthorn couldn't chip and give like Carlton did to us the entire first half last week, until Kozzy went deep last week and had a big say in the way Carlton were able to move the ball.

I reckon people need to watch games more closely, not you DF, just generally. 

It's such a systems based competition now, and the game since 2022, has been so much about chipping and getting handball receives to slice through zones. The speed of pressure Kozzy is able to apply in our forward half is not necessarily measured in mere tackles (2). He had 22 pressure acts for the game. He was very serviceable despite the 5 possessions. For context, Viney had our most with 28 (in front of Chandler 24, Sparrow 23 and Kozzy 22).

[Binmans PA 26,261]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

With our Healthy % it is still possible to reach 2nd

Huge weekend coming up

Best percentage in the league. ❤️

[Mel Bourne 3,706]

53 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

He plays the most difficult role in the game in terms of consistency. It’s just not possible for small forwards to have great games every week.

Kosi is one of the most consistent in this role, on track for another 40 odd goals. Cyril only managed to do that twice in his entire career. Just for some perspective. 

I’m not saying he needs to be electric every week, just involved at a consistent level. Five disposals is not good. 

I’m not using goals as a metric. If I was, he’s behind Greene, Cameron, Elliot, Papley, Higgins and Rankine in that regard (and not sure why Cyril Rioli’s numbers are the benchmark - small forward-wise, Greene has kicked 56 and Cameron has kicked 53 this year).  

His inconsistency is not an illusion. There was a reason why he was moved to the centre bounces against the Tigers a couple of weeks ago - to get him more directly involved. I’m not sure why it hasn’t been adopted more since, as it seemed to be having the desired intention. 

I say all this as somebody who loves to watch him play when it’s on his own terms, and really want him to be the champion he keeps hinting at becoming. 

Edited August 20, 2023 by Mel Bourne