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Just now, Fat Tony said:

I wonder if Rivers has the right attributes to move onto the wing? Endurance would be the big issue I think.

Leg speed and tank. I remember Gawn said in an interview that is always him and Riv at the back of the pack during the long distance running.

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3 minutes ago, MrFreeze said:

Leg speed and tank. I remember Gawn said in an interview that is always him and Riv at the back of the pack during the long distance running.

Rivers definitely has the speed required. I think if the bench goes to 5 next year, we could potentially play him on a wing for 60% of game time. (The average would be 78%.)

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On 9/25/2022 at 10:19 AM, DeeSpencer said:

When it comes to defensive system I have a laugh at Scott being heralded as a genius for dropping Stanley back. Like the world has forgotten Gawn’s done that for years.

Im devastated to be losing Jacko when you see the impact Blicavs has a midfielder/ruck hybrid. That allows them do double down on the Stanley back even more without losing the ruck and they can play one less at the stoppages because after the hit out Blicavs is a mid again. 

Maybe the Gawn/Grundy combo can do something similar but I don’t think they’ll have the mobility at ground level and neither of them will be lining up as midfielders.

Because the cats are so confident in always having the extra defender back and/or the first wave of help to appear they can play a jumbo backline that doesn’t have a heap of skills.

Stewart’s a great kick and they have one of Tuohy or Duncan back as a distributor. Otherwise they play De Koning, Henry, Kolo, Zuthrie, Bews. 5 stoppers all above 186cm plus Stewart.

Can we go with May, Petty, Turner, Rivers, Hibbo/Hunt/Smith and Lever with Salem or Bowey providing the kicking? I’m not sure we can or should, but it does create the ability to zone and switch as well as easy intercepts.

Midfield defending is the Cats big edge I think. They have 3 on ballers who have played as taggers and defenders at some stage. Blicavs, Atkins and Guthrie. The Swans went 50/50 on clearances but the Cats won all but one of the Swans clearances back by forcing errors. 

Selwood and Danger did their thing, a bit like how Clarry and Tracc do their thing, but the Cats use their other mids to wreck to the opposition. 

It was a reminder of how important Viney, Harmes, Sparrow and if he’s in there Brayshaw can and should be in disrupting the opposition as much as winning their own ball.

If we hire a new midfield coach this year I hope they can do a refresh they way Yze did in 2021

They just copied exactly what we did last year with there defence.

Healthy list, proper resting of stars, the inclusion of Stengle (added 50 goals to their bottom line), De Koning and Atkins into key areas of the ground.

Cameron played out of his skin kicking 60.

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2 minutes ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

They just copied exactly what we did last year with there defence.

Healthy list, proper resting of stars, the inclusion of Stengle (added 50 goals to their bottom line), De Koning and Atkins into key areas of the ground.

Cameron played out of his skin kicking 60.

Atkins and Blicavs as defensive on ballers were so valuable. That allowed them to rest rotate Dangerfield and Selwood. Those 2 have been good for 55 disposals a week whilst their opponents got 60+. With a proper defensive mix in the middle they stopped leaking easy possessions to the oppositions best players. 

The extra midfield depth and Stengle meant they stopped playing Higgins or Dalhouse or any of the other over the hill half forwards they had been rolling out too.

 

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40 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Atkins and Blicavs as defensive on ballers were so valuable. That allowed them to rest rotate Dangerfield and Selwood. Those 2 have been good for 55 disposals a week whilst their opponents got 60+. With a proper defensive mix in the middle they stopped leaking easy possessions to the oppositions best players. 

The extra midfield depth and Stengle meant they stopped playing Higgins or Dalhouse or any of the other over the hill half forwards they had been rolling out too.

 

Absolutely, a 198cm defensive mid is very hard to out-body and no one in the AFL will outrun him.

He's an absolute weapon (Blicavs)

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27 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Absolutely, a 198cm defensive mid is very hard to out-body and no one in the AFL will outrun him.

He's an absolute weapon (Blicavs)

Plus if they can give us some much needed contested aerial ability around the ground that would be very helpful. 

Also on Blicavs I totally agree, most versitile player in the league by a stretch. I watched that Geelong v Carlton game late in the year where he started by tagging Cripps and doing a bang up job but Carlton were totally snookered because what do you do? Move Cripps up forward? Blicavs will just follow and is already a competent defender in his own right!

Think we'll see a few teams trying to get a specialist 'spare parts man' in their mix. 

Edited by layzie
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1 hour ago, layzie said:

Plus if they can give us some much needed contested aerial ability around the ground that would be very helpful. 

Also on Blicavs I totally agree, most versitile player in the league by a stretch. I watched that Geelong v Carlton game late in the year where he started by tagging Cripps and doing a bang up job but Carlton were totally snookered because what do you do? Move Cripps up forward? Blicavs will just follow and is already a competent defender in his own right!

Think we'll see a few teams trying to get a specialist 'spare parts man' in their mix. 

We’re losing the only player in the league who has the athletic ability and footy craft to become a Blicavs type player and I’m not a huge fan of it to be honest 

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Delisted: Rosman, Mitch Brown (r)

Retired: Daw

Gone (trade) : Jackson 

Probable delisting: Baker 

Probable free agent departure: Hunt

Potential trade loss: Bedford 

Likely 1-year contracts through to retirement: Hibbo and Melksham 

* likely trade arrival - Brodie Grundy 

** unknown /other targets???? 

Dees could end up with either two draft picks + Chandler upgrade OR up to four draft picks + Chandler upgrade. 

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Delisted: Rosman

Retired: Daw, Mitch Brown (r) 

Gone (trade) : Jackson 

Probable delisting: Baker 

Probable free agent departure: Hunt

Potential trade loss: Bedford 

Likely 1-year contracts through to retirement: Hibbo and Melksham 

* likely trade arrival - Brodie Grundy 

** unknown /other targets???? 

Dees could end up with either two draft picks + Chandler upgrade OR up to four draft picks + Chandler upgrade. 

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2 hours ago, Fanatique Demon said:

Is anyone else a little concerned that we’re not making enough changes (on our terms) for 2023? Even Geelong seems to be turning over 4 or 5 on their list. 

No. We had best 22 players below their best due to carrying injuries and still finished second. Most of our best 25 Gawn, Hibberd, Tmac, Brown and May aside should be in the window or before the window of their best footy. We will want to look at some of our VFL premiership side in Bedford, Chandler, JVR, Turner, Howes, Woewoden, Laurie, AMW, McVee next year with another preseason in them to shift some roles. I am not looking at the moves other clubs are making and thinking they would improve our 22 for cost of trade. Amon is the only one I thought would possibly fit need for cost and by all reports we had a look but one or the other decided not right fit. We are usually very focussed in what we are trying to do rather than the scattergun of other clubs. Clearly our focus is get Grundy and maximise the Jackson move, once done I am sure we will look to see whether a move of value exists.   

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  • 2 weeks later...

43

Delisted: Rosman, Baker

Retired: Daw, Mitch Brown (r)

Traded : Jackson , Bedford, Weideman 

free agent departure: Hunt

———————————————

Likely 1-year contracts (then retirement end 2023): Hibbo and Melksham 

———————————————

Trade additions : Brodie Grundy , Lachie Hunter, Josh Schache

38

Add further to get back to squad of 42  

Dees could use two draft picks and a rookie selection.  

Either pickup a delisted free agent or perhaps wait for mid season draft. 

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Part Two - The Rose Garden by The Oracle

Melbourne’s list manager Tim Lamb never promised us a rose garden prior to the AFL’s 2022 Free Agency and Trade Period but you won’t hear us little complaining about the following list of trades completed by Wednesday’s 7.30pm deadline -

• Melbourne received a third round compensation pick (pick 52) as Jayden Hunt signed with West Coast via Free Agency

• Melbourne traded picks 33, 43 and 53 to Port Adelaide for pick 27

• Melbourne traded Toby Bedford to GWS for pick 44

• Melbourne traded Luke Jackson, picks 44 and 67 to Fremantle for pick 13 and Fremantle’s future first and second round picks

• Melbourne traded pick 27 to Collingwood for Brodie Grundy

• Melbourne traded Sam Weideman, picks 54 and 72 to Essendon for pick 37

• Melbourne traded its future fourth round selection to Western Bulldogs for Josh Schache

• Melbourne traded its future third round selection to Western Bulldogs for Lachie Hunter

The combined effect of the above trades is to leave the Melbourne Football Club in a strong position with a combination of improved draft choices and the inclusion of what Lamb described as “battle-hardened senior talent”.

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The end of season changes were added to a day later with the delisting of Oskar Baker whose cards were no doubt marked with the acquisition of Hunter. The remaining uncontracted players, Michael Hibberd and Jake Melksham, are believed to have been offered contracts for next year.

This leaves the club with the mandatory three vacancies on its Primary List, one of which will be filled in due course by the uplifting of rookie Kade Chandler onto the Primary List. 

The Demons take picks 13 and 37 into the November Draft and they will add a couple of rookies and possibly a Next Generation Academy player, again most likely as a rookie. 

There’s still a long way to go but the past fortnight has foreshadowed the possibility that the club could well emerge from its next big challenge smelling of roses. 

Bring it on.

PRIMARY LIST: —

Jake Bowey Jake Bowey Angus Brayshaw Ben Brown Luke Dunstan Bayley Fritsch Max Gawn Brodie Grundy James Harmes Michael Hibberd Blake Howes Lachie Hunter James Jordon Ed Langdon Bailey Laurie Jake Lever Tom McDonald Steven May Jake Melksham Alex Neal-Bullen Clayton Oliver Christian Petracca Harrison Petty Kysaiah Kropinyeri Pickett Trent Rivers Christian Salem Josh Schache Joel Smith Charlie Spargo Tom Sparrow Adam Tomlinson Jacob Van Rooyen Jack Viney Taj Woewodin 

ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY A 

Kade Chandler Judd McVee Deakyn Smith Daniel Turner 

ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY B  

Andy Moniz-Wakefield 

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On 9/20/2022 at 9:41 AM, 1964_2 said:

Fair call. 
Gus would be a great, complimentary mid for many other teams.

Unfortunately for him he has similar strengths and weaknesses as Trac, Oli, Viney, and will most likely remain 4th in the pecking order.  

Our 4th mid needs to be a quick, classy, smart mid, with great foot skills (not asking much)

If we go into 2023 with Trac, Oli, Viney and Brayshaw as our 4 mids for the year. Think it will be an indicator we haven’t learnt much, and stubborn goody is back in a big way. 
 

Would Salem  be any good trying as a 4th mid? Hasn't  got pace but is quick to  move  ball on to his foot? Harmes is also no real difference but his tagging is desperately needed. Maybe a few Kossie stints on the ball are necessary. 

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3 hours ago, 58er said:

Would Salem  be any good trying as a 4th mid? Hasn't  got pace but is quick to  move  ball on to his foot? Harmes is also no real difference but his tagging is desperately needed. Maybe a few Kossie stints on the ball are necessary. 

Some Salem rotations through the midfield is a great idea. Especially if Rivers, Bowey etc are back to their best and there is depth through his typical hbf position. 

He played some effective mid minutes in his first couple of seasons while he was still developing 

 

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22 minutes ago, Ungarieboy said:

So if 8 players have departed and 3 have arrived, then that leaves 5 spots. Chandler gets upgraded so we then have 4.  Do we have enough draft picks, is there a free agent we are looking at (any rumours)!

When Chandler gets upgraded we still have 5 spots because the spot he vacates is still open. Just as a rookie spot and not a spot on the primary list. 

We will then have two primary list spots and three rookie spots as well as the capacity to take a NGA as the second Category B rookie.

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  • 2 weeks later...
3 hours ago, Pink Freud said:

Is anyone concerned that at this late stage we have yet to contract Michael Hibberd or Jake Melksham (according to the Herald Sun subscriber pages):

D2C6A31D-60B6-41CE-BE75-F5DE9F3874D0.thumb.jpeg.46e4cba535d889f90430a93f9dad0ca0.jpeg

we'll just be waiting to see if any trades pop up that would net us an extra selection/ where FEB might fall etc and the possibility that that would shuffle one of these guys down to the rookie list, thatll be all the hold up is, just extra flexibility.also the DFA pool could be a factor

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I presume they have been resigned but just haven't been announced publicly?

Isn't their a cut off date for list changes which was last week?

It is a bit odd that it's been left this late?

Edited by dazzledavey36
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  • 1 month later...

Part Three - Comparing apples with pomegranates by The Oracle

One of the truly pointless exercises after each year’s draft is the game over which club “won” the period in question. The reality is that there is no winner or loser at the time and it’s only years further down the track when a full assessment of how the picks turn out can be made, that the winning hand is revealed.

And the draft results cannot be considered in isolation; you need to look at where each club stood before the trades including their original hands, how they traded and drafted and where they stood in the end. It wasn’t so long ago that one so-called “expert” gave Melbourne a C rating for its 2019 draft haul of Luke Jackson, Kysaiah Pickett and Trent Rivers. Less than two years later the trio were all part premiership team.

With this in mind, I return to the changes in the make up of Melbourne’s 2022 list in the fortnight after this year’s grand final. The club had failed in its recent finals campaign and then lost exciting young ruckman Jackson who sought to return home to Perth.

In the trading period, the Demons acquired three new names in two-time All Australian 203cm tall ruckman and Copeland Trophy winner Brodie Grundy, premiership Bulldog wingman Lachie Hunter (also a past best and fairest for the Western Bulldogs) and his teammate in Josh Schache, a former Larke Medallist and the number two national draftee of 2015.

On top of that, the Demons improved their draft position. They now held a current first round pick and two future first and second rounders for 2023. 

That outcome wasn’t enough to impress all of the pundits but to many, including yours truly, it was nevertheless a satisfactory outcome.

In the month before the draft, Melbourne added young basketballer Kyah Farris-White as a Category B rookie on a one year contract brokered by his American agent who initially contacted Jason Taylor via Linkedin. The 206cm beanstalk was tested by Mark Williams who liked what he saw and the youngster will now gain tuition in ruckwork within a system containing two of the game’s best ruck practitioners.

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With the draft fast approaching, there was speculation that the Demons were preparing to deal aggressively with their future picks to improve their hand but that all came to nought. 

Perhaps the Demon recruiters are fans of the US musical Hamilton because they decided to use the national draft to select a pair who carry the names of two early American Presidents, Jefferson and Adams.

High flying forward Matthew Jefferson from the Oakleigh Chargers has been associated with the Demons ever since they collected a first round selection (which turned out to be 15) in the Jackson trade. The connection was clear and present. One of the club’s needs was a key forward to team up with 2021 draftee Jacob Van Rooyen as Ben Brown and Tom McDonald neared their twilight years. 

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The Under 18 All Australian Jefferson who booted 14 goals in the recent national carnival including a haul of seven against WA was the obvious choice at that point on the first night of the draft meeting. He was also the full forward in the NAB League Team Of The Year.

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Late in the second round of the following evening, Melbourne snared a Jefferson bookend, Jed Adams, a 196cm key defender from Western Australia. Despite some injury concerns in 2022, Adams is considered a cool and steady customer who could fill Steven May’s shoes when the great man decides to step down. 

B001981D-D4C2-4D41-BB43-8F573AA3A888.thumb.jpeg.b5be4817f132389d586d69ef11581762.jpeg

 

There was no third selection in the national draft. As expected, the club promoted Kade Chandler off the rookie list — a fitting reward for the young midfielder/forward’s patience and perseverance during the Covid pandemic when he played an understudy role at a premiership club, biding his time for opportunities that were hard to come by.

The critics provided no universal accolades for the Demons’ drafting exercise. Rather, it was considered as a solid effort. There were no raised eyebrows. Pulses never ran hot. There were no apples to compare with the fruit of the other clubs.

So when the rookie draft came a day later, Melbourne did pull a couple of surprises. It bucked the trend of reloading with previously delisted players and continued to go young and tall by selecting an impressive South Australian ruckman who has established some great credentials in his young career. Standing at close to 200cm, Will Verrall is not that far away from accompanying one of the two big guns in the ruck or up forward at AFL level should the need arise. If not, he will develop in their shadows at Casey.

1719D0C2-5F74-41D0-AB20-07082B557001.thumb.jpeg.e64f7bed74a1be2b79c8fc1a9c4607c5.jpeg

Then came the bombshell selection of the smoky of the draft. Strong bodied Xavier College student Oliver Sestan happened to be at the place (Gosch’s Paddock) at the right time when the Paul Connors management team showed off its draft stable to league recruiters late last month.  It has been said that Sestan matched it that day with now North Melbourne recruit George Wardlaw. Days later the prolific 186cm goalkicker in junior ranks at Mansfield was a Demon. The experts all asked “who” and I guess we’ll find out some time sooner or later as to whether the speculative selection can play. 

C770767E-8B58-43BF-9AFA-0A99AC6EB69B.jpeg.88b6fb76d08a644315767f1211a0d398.jpeg

 

But that’s not all. 

The selectors left one place open to be filled during the preseason supplemental selection period or further down the track in next year’s mid season draft. And beyond that, the Demons have two first and two second round draft picks awaiting them when the 2023 trades and draft take place.

In the meantime, the lists read like this —

PRIMARY LIST: 

Jed Adams Jake Bowey Angus Brayshaw Ben Brown Kade Chandler Luke Dunstan Bayley Fritsch Max Gawn Brodie Grundy James Harmes Michael Hibberd Blake Howes Lachie Hunter Matthew Jefferson James Jordon Ed Langdon Bailey Laurie Jake Lever Tom McDonald Steven May Jake Melksham Alex Neal-Bullen Clayton Oliver Christian Petracca Harrison Petty Kysaiah Kropinyeri Pickett Trent Rivers Christian Salem Josh Schache Joel Smith Charlie Spargo Tom Sparrow Adam Tomlinson Jacob Van Rooyen Jack Viney Taj Woewodin 

ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY A

Judd McVee Oliver Sestan Deakyn Smith Daniel Turner Will Verrell

ROOKIE LIST: CATEGORY B 

Kyah Farris-White Andy Moniz-Wakefield

Changes2022-03.png

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