Fading second halves

[tallstuey 33]

Darren Burgess

[ElDiablo14 3,725]

Don't know, it feels more like psychological and structural/strategy issues for me.

One thing is clear some of our leaders have let our team down in critical moments when the pressure was up.

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,667]

Not sure as supporters that we have the knowledge or insight to blame Selwyn Griffiths on the second half fade outs.

But geez, you wouldn’t exactly be  endorsing him either like the proven Darren Burgess.

[DeeSpencer 23,689]

1. The midfield in particularly isn't at peak fitness and isn't deep, and obviously we don't have key forwards at peak fitness to draw the ball and encourage opening the game up.

2. The game plan requires a lot of energy, physical and mental.

3. Some valid excuses: Alice Springs 6 day break, Perth trip, backline injuries in earlier games

 

[Deenooos_ 647]

Hunger, outworked.

May have stuffed up our loading program to in season disruption due injuries and Griffith not being able to adapt and implement the training loads. It's a fine balance

[DeeSpencer 23,689]

1 minute ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Not sure as supporters that we have the knowledge or insight to blame Selwyn Griffiths on the second half fade outs.

But geez, you wouldn’t exactly be  endorsing him either like the proven Darren Burgess.

The results have been different but a lot of what we're doing right now is very similar to 2020 under Burgo.

[bazza226 73]

Our main issue seems to be shocking conversion rate of our inside 50s. We should have iced many of our losses by half time if we had kicked straight for easy set shot goals.

[Demon Dynasty 16,372]

I agree with this up until last week.  Think we are lasting longer into matches since Freo.  Maybe just a smidgen left to go to make it to the final siren against the top 4 to 6.  Not sure if we can make that up before finals though.

It's also about our failure to maximise the efforts in the first half IMV.

41 inside 50s to just 18 for the Pies at half time last night but we were less than three goals up.

Then for about 6 mins early in the third we did a great job at locking the ball in our forward 50 at the City Rd end.  Failed to capatilise.  Didn't kick one goal. They took it down their end for the first time after that dominance.... and scored....easily!

Huge team deflator right there.

[Deecisive 1,674]

we did it to ourselves, langdons comments did certainly help Gee up the pies, they went in hard especially on langdon. I think Langdon's words reflected the thoughts of other players who thought they have this, when they dont. Our record against collingwood even when playing at our best is extremely poor, so there is no way we should be making comments on how bad they are. Our kicking and handball efficiency was certainly not as good and our kicking for goal was far worse. We had 3 or 4 very gettable shots from some of our best players miss. I dont know if it was nerves or over confidence. No offence but no players should be smiling after shooting for goal and kicking a point, they should be angry and disappointed in their effort.

 

 

[Mickey 4,248]

Last year we played GC, WC, Adelaide and Geelong in the final four rounds. Only one of those played finals, and we only just beat them.

Things are very different this year, but maybe out fitness levels/loading isn't the problem. Maybe it's just that we are playing top 4 teams

[dl4e 5,706]

Our second half fadeouts are due to mental fatigue.

[1858 274]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

2. The game plan requires a lot of energy, physical and mental.

It does and the players have been feeling it more this year than last year IMO.

As much as we won the first 9 games last year, we had Burgess and we didn't quite bed down the game plan until later in the year. This year we've been replicating that (as best possible) from round 1 and it shows. Mid year we were probably the most knackered team.

Our pressure, tackling (both in number and effectiveness) and 1 on 1 standards have dropped all over the ground. Forward 50 is leading this but it affects our whole dynamic.

[goodwindees 2,129]

33 minutes ago, Deecisive said:

we did it to ourselves, langdons comments did certainly help Gee up the pies, they went in hard especially on langdon. I think Langdon's words reflected the thoughts of other players who thought they have this, when they dont. Our record against collingwood even when playing at our best is extremely poor, so there is no way we should be making comments on how bad they are. Our kicking and handball efficiency was certainly not as good and our kicking for goal was far worse. We had 3 or 4 very gettable shots from some of our best players miss. I dont know if it was nerves or over confidence. No offence but no players should be smiling after shooting for goal and kicking a point, they should be angry and disappointed in their effort.

 

 

I couldn’t agree more Deecisive.  We certainly have so many bigger personnel & game style issues, however, in a game where 1%ers count,  Langdon’s comments were so naive & so motivating to the Pies supporters and their Players fed off it.  I also hate seeing Petracca trying be so popular with opposition players & their supporters by offering opposition players a hand to help pull them up and appearing to talk to them like a best mate at quarter time breaks.

I know they tell a joke at the pre-game huddle to lighten the mood, but once that Siren goes, it is business and I cringe when I see Salem & Gawn laughing as they’re walking to the quarter time huddle after Salem missing a very gettable goal.  Encourage him, tell him “to get the next one” but bloody hell, don’t show any sign of being happy or comfortable.  Must start portraying that ruthless, demanding edge all across the ground that May demands & delivers in the backline. 

[Dr. Gonzo 22,843]

1 hour ago, dl4e said:

Our second half fadeouts are due to mental fatigue.

Mental fatigue due to not capitalising on our earlier dominance and hitting the scoreboard. It takes its toll when you've dominated a team but only lead by a few kicks and then they get belief, get on a roll (especially with crowd behind them) and it's hard to stifle that momentum.

Scoreboard pressure is still the best form of pressure there is.

[layzie 30,435]

Hearing casual fans say we miss Burgo makes me laugh. We're likely running the exact same training program as last year. To blame this on one man leaving is seriously laughable.

The hunger we possessed last year, you know the type that goes on to breakthrough? It's satisfied, teams like Geelong and Collingwood are showing it more now, deal with it.

[Demonsone 1,743]

Perhaps its the weight of the premiership medals??

Not abnormal but just maybe not able to push that extra to climb the mountain again??

Edited August 6, 2022 by Demonsone

[Ham 741]

6 minutes ago, layzie said:

Hearing casual fans say we miss Burgo makes me laugh. We're likely running the exact same training program as last year. To blame this on one man leaving is seriously laughable.

Incredibly unlikely that this is the case. Selwyn will have his own program, he won't just copy what Burgo did. 

[The heart beats true 16,733]

It’s a tough one because we can only evaluate the program based on what we’ve seen on the park - and if that’s the case we haven’t got it right.

We had nothing left to give last night. Half way through the last our only option was centre clearances to score. We couldn’t get it done with run and overlap. We didn’t have the legs.

That tells me we haven’t got it right. We aren’t building confidence the way we are playing after half time. We would never feel like we’ve done enough work. That’s the fault of the fitness department.

Edited August 6, 2022 by The heart beats true

[layzie 30,435]

43 minutes ago, Ham said:

Incredibly unlikely that this is the case. Selwyn will have his own program, he won't just copy what Burgo did. 

I think if the blueprint for success is there in front of you for two years I think you would copy it at least 90% actually. Having understudies working with him means that you'd be producing more coaches in the same mould. So have to disagree there I'm afraid Ham.

[binman 39,642]

31 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

It’s a tough one because we can only evaluate the program based on what we’ve seen on the park - and if that’s the case we haven’t got it right.

We had nothing left to give last night. Half way through the last our only option was centre clearances to score. We couldn’t get it done with run and overlap. We didn’t have the legs.

That tells me we haven’t got it right. We aren’t building confidence the way we are playing after half time. We would never feel like we’ve done enough work. That’s the fault of the fitness department.

100% agree with the second para.

Not sure about paras one or two

You might be well right, but the jury is out i reckon.

By that i mean, if we accept the goal is for us to be at peak physical readiness on prelim day (some 7 weeks away) then we have only been in the tapering phase for a couple of weeks and it stands to reason we are a ways of our physical peak right now. 

It's possible the pies are close to their peak as their loading program would not have had had them peaking on prelim day. So logic suggests they were likely to run out the game better than us, as proved to be the case. 

I watched the round 21 West Coast game from last season during the week, and i had forgotten how scrappy a game it was. It was wet and wild night, so that was factor, but our performance was not nearly as strong as i had remembered.

Scores were basically level at half time, and for the first 10 mins of the third quarter and it was only 10 minute burst in the third where we got separation.

When we the game was stopped for lightning we were on top, but after coming back they almost ran over the top of us. Now, that might have been becuase we put the cue in the rack, and we certainly did chip it around and look to take time out of the clock.

But the fact remains they ran out the game better. So perhaps we weren't so far ahead of where we are now as it appears from the weekends game?

Which makes it all the more weird that we never really looked to play tempo footy against the pies. We were the ones who drove the fast tempo in the first half - which was also weird given that i how the pies like to play.

It was almost as if we decided we were going to get out to a unassailable lead by half time. Which to be honest, we bloody well should have.

Perhaps if we had of played some tempo footy we might have had some fuel in the tank left in the last 10 minutes of the game.  

[At the break of Gawn 3,865]

9 minutes ago, binman said:

100% agree with the second para.

Not sure about paras one or two

You might be well right, but the jury is out i reckon.

By that i mean, if we accept the goal is for us to be at peak physical readiness on prelim day (some 7 weeks away) then we have only been in the tapering phase for a couple of weeks and it stands to reason we are a ways of our physical peak right now. 

It's possible the pies are close to their peak as their loading program would not have had had them peaking on prelim day. So logic suggests they were likely to run out the game better than us, as proved to be the case. 

I watched the round 21 West Coast game from last season during the week, and i had forgotten how scrappy a game it was. It was wet and wild night, so that was factor, but our performance was not nearly as strong as i had remembered.

Scores were basically level at half time, and for the first 10 mins of the third quarter and it was only 10 minute burst in the third where we got separation.

When we the game was stopped for lightning we were on top, but after coming back they almost ran over the top of us. Now, that might have been becuase we put the cue in the rack, and we certainly did chip it around and look to take time out of the clock.

But the fact remains they ran out the game better. So perhaps we weren't so far ahead of where we are now as it appears from the weekends game?

Which makes it all the more weird that we never really looked to play tempo footy against the pies. We were the ones who drove the fast tempo in the first half - which was also weird given that i how the pies like to play.

It was almost as if we decided we were going to get out to a unassailable lead by half time. Which to be honest, we bloody well should have.

Perhaps if we had of played some tempo footy we might have had some fuel in the tank left in the last 10 minutes of the game.  

Surely we will run over the Blues next week. 8 day break vs 6 days and an interstate trip. If we run out of gas again we might as well shut up shop for the season.

[3183 Dee 2,691]

I think we cannot discount the run of injuries this year: effectively, we are in almost the same position as last year (albeit with a harder run in) but our run with injuries has really stunted our flow. As I’ve said in another thread, the loss of TMac has been huge for us: he straightens up the forward line on so many levels and, in my opinion, is good for a +2 or 3 goal advantage on what we’ve had this year.

Last night was painful - mostly because we could have had that game sewn up - not once, but 4 or 5 times. To me, the forward line is the key issue, not the Game Plan: exert the pressure, have a TMac type target and you will get a very different outcome in games like last night - no question.

We have a great list, a great coach and a great club. Sometimes things will not work out, but stay the course, because we will see greatness from this team again.

[The heart beats true 16,733]

18 minutes ago, binman said:

100% agree with the second para.

Not sure about paras one or two

You might be well right, but the jury is out i reckon.

By that i mean, if we accept the goal is for us to be at peak physical readiness on prelim day (some 7 weeks away) then we have only been in the tapering phase for a couple of weeks and it stands to reason we are a ways of our physical peak right now. 

It's possible the pies are close to their peak as their loading program would not have had had them peaking on prelim day. So logic suggests they were likely to run out the game better than us, as proved to be the case. 

I watched the round 21 West Coast game from last season during the week, and i had forgotten how scrappy a game it was. It was wet and wild night, so that was factor, but our performance was not nearly as strong as i had remembered.

Scores were basically level at half time, and for the first 10 mins of the third quarter and it was only 10 minute burst in the third where we got separation.

When we the game was stopped for lightning we were on top, but after coming back they almost ran over the top of us. Now, that might have been becuase we put the cue in the rack, and we certainly did chip it around and look to take time out of the clock.

But the fact remains they ran out the game better. So perhaps we weren't so far ahead of where we are now as it appears from the weekends game?

Which makes it all the more weird that we never really looked to play tempo footy against the pies. We were the ones who drove the fast tempo in the first half - which was also weird given that i how the pies like to play.

It was almost as if we decided we were going to get out to a unassailable lead by half time. Which to be honest, we bloody well should have.

Perhaps if we had of played some tempo footy we might have had some fuel in the tank left in the last 10 minutes of the game.  

You’re right about last year. I forgot that weird debacle in the west. 👍

I also think how I feel is based on what you saw too. There does appear to be a disconnect between the plan and the fitness to execute it. I feel like we possibly thought we were more advanced than we are.

Regardless, stop with these rational posts. I’m still in the anger phase. It’s going to be at least Tuesday until I can cope with logic and reason.

[Deecisive 1,674]

i think that while we lost for a number of reasons, at the end of the day I think we played better, we had far more forward entries, had a lot more shots at goal, more possessions, and unfortunately the wrong side of the umpire at times when it counted. So I dont think it is quite that bad. Yes we need to make some changes but a lot of those changes are probably mental, they are our disposal efficiency, our looking for players to give the ball to instead of kicking it long into the goal square. When we move the ball fast we get goals, when we take too long to move it into our forward line, our forwards rarely mark the ball and our smalls while they do get some goals dont get enough. sparrow, jordan and ANB (when he gets the ball) often are too slow to move it on, instead of taking short passes and moving the ball they hold it up and kick down the line. Lot at the stats on how many times a game we go forward into our 50 a game for the percentage of goals, or even scores we get. That needs to change, while we may be getting reasonable service from some of our smalls, and mids, probably not enough to warrant their place in the side. 

[Ted Lasso 17,318]

It's all above the shoulders with this group, the talent is there, the fitness is fine, we are quite healthy overall, and i even think the game plan is sound. 

we aren't as hungry and so we aren't ruthlessly adhering to role as we did in 2021, i think the players thought we're back after the Freo game and the Pies gave us a wake up call. 

I hope we see a really strong response against the Blues because we can't afford to lose from here.