22 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

This is what I’ve thought is the best case scenario (not what I agree with, and hopefully I’m wrong). It would be better than using the Dogga picks imo. First rounder is what I was told, from the Pies end, and I posted it, quite a while ago, for those who remember. Still hope it’s a 2nd rounder though.

On 8/10/2022 at 1:22 PM, RedFox said:

I'm not sold on the Gawn forward move. Been torched by his accuracy on goal more than once. Sure he can clunk them but it will only exacerbate our inability to convert if we lean on that move even more heavily than we are now. Would much rather chase a KPF who can put them through the big sticks with high regularity.

Gawn only works forward playing off an effective key forward. 

Max was beat up this year and it showed. Cox drove his knee into his back a dozen times on QB and I don't think Max ever got back to full fitness. He's 31 and with Grundy playing we'll have a chance to float one forward and one behind the ball. With our midfield we'll own clearances and stoppages. We need to sort out some dash and a rejig the forward line a little. Our game plan might bore you but it works really well. Can't see how we don't compete right at the pointy end next year. We actually have most of the pieces already at the club, just some tinkering required. 

If the filth want a first rounder in return, they can pay half of Grundy’s wage.

Collingwood want at least 70% of Grundy's salary off their books, so will pay a maximum of 30%. I think it's a risk going with Cameron and Cox/Begg/Frampton/McStay - I think Hickey touched them up in the ruck in the PF and they couldn’t take full advantage against Heeney and whoever when Reid went off.

Its happening and in the end, whether we give a late 1st or a 2nd round pick in this deal won't be the key factor. It will be whether 5 years of Grundy helps delivers flags. If it doesn't, then no-one will be saying, it's OK we only gave a 2nd rounder.

Forget about worrying about the pick. Think about how this can work for us. Otherwise you're in for plenty of teeth grinding and unhappy thoughts.

43 minutes ago, Matt said:

This is what I’ve thought is the best case scenario (not what I agree with, and hopefully I’m wrong). It would be better than using the Dogga picks imo. First rounder is what I was told, from the Pies end, and I posted it, quite a while ago, for those who remember. Still hope it’s a 2nd rounder though.

I know this means nothing now, but a couple of years ago, when we were tying to get rid of TMac, and no one was wanting him, the Pies were actually looking at him. Not sure why it didn't eventuate, but I'm glad it didn't, and Tom stayed with us and played well the following year. At the time I was told this, I said to the Pies guy "you obviously aren't a Dees supporter, or you would never be looking at TMac". Shows how much I knew lol

6 minutes ago, old55 said:

Its happening and in the end, whether we give a late 1st or a 2nd round pick in this deal won't be the key factor. It will be whether 5 years of Grundy helps delivers flags. If it doesn't, then no-one will be saying, it's OK we only gave a 2nd rounder.

Forget about worrying about the pick. Think about how this can work for us. Otherwise you're in for plenty of teeth grinding and unhappy thoughts.

Can see where you’re coming from old, that draft picks are unknowns, but imo so is an injured ruckman who couldn’t get on the park for the second half of the year

you would presume the higher round pick we give up the more weighted it is to the filth paying a chunk of his salary

i'm reasonably confident he'll be a MORE than handy player for us, even if i don't personally agree with the logic of bringing him in

2 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Can see where you’re coming from old, that draft picks are unknowns, but imo so is an injured ruckman who couldn’t get on the park for the second half of the year

Yes, if Grundy had played out the year and was still offloaded i would happily accept a first round pick. But he didn’t return after Anzac day

1 hour ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

I would be extraordinarily [censored] off if we gave a first round pick for Grundy !!!!!

So would I Uncle!!

Relying on an injury free Grundy and Gawn to kick goals with his uncoordinated style is a recipe for disaster IMO.

Seriously if they want us to pay 70% then we offer pick 70, 65%, pick 65 etc

A d no we don’t pay more than 70%.

[censored] them!

There will be a lamb on a spit if we give them a 1st rounder!

 

45 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Relying on an injury free Grundy and Gawn to kick goals with his uncoordinated style is a recipe for disaster IMO.

If Gawn stood in the goalsquare with Pickett at his feet would be a nightmare to defend and Pickett can also keep defensive pressure. Max would draw two talls leaving the forward pocket with Brown, Van Rooyen having one less tall against them or Fritsch potentially one on one or free. Seems to create a lot more goal scoring options and could still set relatively good hold in pressure in forward line.  

Grundy is an elite ruckman, and at stage LJ is in his career, Grundy is a better player. Bigger, tougher, stronger and covers the field well, no slouch at following up in the ruck hitouts in the middle. For a few years the argument was Max or Grundy, if they can make work will be great.

I think Grundy will add years 1-2 to Max career and vice versa.

If one injured then a Weideman or Van Rooyen as a backup can work. 

 

 

Edited September 20, 20222 yr by D4Life
Extra points

Just now, D4Life said:

If Gawn stood in the goalsquare with Pickett at his feet would be a nightmare to defend and Pickett can also keep defensive pressure. Max would draw two talls leaving the forward pocket with Brown, Van Rooyen having one less tall against them or Fritsch potentially one on one or free. Seems to create a lot more goal scoring options and could still set relatively good hold in pressure in forward line.  

We've already witnessed lots of that in recent weeks for bugger all result. He's kicked 2 goals since round 12 and I think 13 for the season in what seems like a lot more time forward. One bad shank at goal for Max and it messes him up for ages.

1 minute ago, SFebes said:

We've already witnessed lots of that in recent weeks for bugger all result. He's kicked 2 goals since round 12 and I think 13 for the season in what seems like a lot more time forward. One bad shank at goal for Max and it messes him up for ages.

Maybe your right, but what I saw was everyone run to the forward pocket and we had a massive pack

51 minutes ago, SFebes said:

Relying on an injury free Grundy and Gawn to kick goals with his uncoordinated style is a recipe for disaster IMO.

I think we are more so looking to dominate clearance/stoppage and not  be out marked under a long ball. 

On 9/17/2022 at 10:20 AM, BDA said:

Past trades are not relevant. We should make a decision based on the merits of this potential trade.
I think Grundy can play an important role for us but the price needs to be right. I think a first rounder is overs and don’t want too much salary tied up in the deal. Our recruiting has been good recently so I trust them to make the right call 

 

Agree on this. I'm comfortable with the $700k salary as Grundy is an elite ruckman but you don't use 1st round draft picks on a 29 year old in the latter part of their career.

1 minute ago, Lil_red_fire_engine said:

I think we are more so looking to dominate clearance/stoppage and not  be out marked under a long ball. 

I might be on my own here but I generally think the ruckman position is an overrated one. For all of Gawns dominance and our midfield, we don't really dominate. Anyway, we shall see, I think the pick/coin could be used to better upgrade our forward-line with a proven KPF and elite ball users/real forwards inside 50. I dont see how getting Grundy is going to improve our forward issues, as thats where it's at. Its a waste of time dominating clearances and getting 70 i50's if we don't have forwards who can capitalise. Anyway, you know this BRFE, just my thoughts. 

20 minutes ago, D4Life said:

If Gawn stood in the goalsquare with Pickett at his feet would be a nightmare to defend and Pickett can also keep defensive pressure. Max would draw two talls leaving the forward pocket with Brown, Van Rooyen having one less tall against them or Fritsch potentially one on one or free. Seems to create a lot more goal scoring options and could still set relatively good hold in pressure in forward line.  

Grundy is an elite ruckman, and at stage LJ is in his career, Grundy is a better player. Bigger, tougher, stronger and covers the field well, no slouch at following up in the ruck hitouts in the middle. For a few years the argument was Max or Grundy, if they can make work will be great.

I think Grundy will add years 1-2 to Max career and vice versa.

If one injured then a Weideman or Van Rooyen as a backup can work. 

 

 

It means we've given up the strategy of kicking to the pocket!

We might not break the defensive records anymore but it will mean we'll be playing an attacking brand 

I'm still very skeptical about getting Grundy. Less than I was, but only as far as I am willing to be persuaded if the evidence is presented.

Let's see what we know about him.

- First and foremost, a ruckman, with at least 30+ hitouts a game for the last eight seasons and even managing 42/game in his 23-brownlow-vote season 2019. Historically, he has played very high game time for a ruck - with the obvious post-injury caveat now.

- Is a proven finals performer. Has been in the top handful of contributors in every final he has played in, including some monstrous hit-out numbers. 25 disposals (20 contested), 73 hitouts and 10 clearances in a prelim is just ridonkulous.

- Almost as many kicks as handballs, and gets more contested than uncontested possessions. Gets a reasonable number of clearances and ranges between 15-20 possessions per game. Funny to recall that once upon a time 'amazing agility for a big man' and 'like having an extra midfielder' were comments that would get a young ruck described as being 'Brodie Grundy like'. It was even applied to Jackson!

- Averages one contested mark per game, so can do it but isn't prolific. Also fine but not outstanding for total marks.

- Is NOT an intercept marker and has fairly low counts for rebound 50s, so has not been used a whole lot to help out in defence. Related to this, Something I really want to see is a 'heat map' of where Grundy typically plays his football.

- His 2022 was going very well until the injury. His knee injury was a PCL, not an ACL, and the only reason he didn't play again this season was because of an unrelated ankle injury which has been declared 'not persisent in nature'. So on the injury count he is all clear as much as anyone can be. Will do a full pre-season.

 

Okay, that's what stood out to me. Not going to add any conclusions.

I don't see why we pay them a first rounder for a 29 year old. Its overs

you'd think Grundy isn't best pleased with how he's been treated so he won't want to "look after" the pies in a trade. If i'm the MFC i'd be in his ear to play hardball with the pies. tell them it's MFC or else pay my salary for the next 5 years. [censored] the pies. We have the leverage here let's squeeze those jammy bastards hard.

1 minute ago, BDA said:

I don't see why we pay them a first rounder for a 29 year old. Its overs

you'd think Grundy isn't best pleased with how he's been treated so he won't want to "look after" the pies in a trade. If i'm the MFC i'd be in his ear to play hardball with the pies. tell them it's MFC or else pay my salary for the next 5 years. [censored] the pies. We have the leverage here let's squeeze those jammy bastards hard.

Agree. Ffs. We are doing them a huge favour. 

it’s been suggested 

Grundy for Dees 2023 1st round pick. 
Pies pay 1/3rd of contract for 5 years 

🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮

If people think pick 16-17 is way too much, what do you think is reasonable for an AA ruck?

I reckon a pick in mid twenties is about right. You need to give something up to get good players especially when the Pies are paying a fair crack of the salary

58 minutes ago, adonski said:

There will be a lamb on a spit if we give them a 1st rounder!

 

Been salivating over dropping that zinger in @adonski?