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Farewell Brodie Grundy


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On 8/10/2022 at 11:39 AM, david_neitz_is_my_dad said:

I see it more as him doing most of the ruck whilst Gawn spend more time forward

Yes and Gawn has the capacity to kick lots of goals?

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10 minutes ago, Colm said:

That's probably is fair market value. But there are other factors in this trade, for one Grundy doesn’t want to leave and hasn’t put in a request. Another factor in this trade is that the Pies need him off the books in order to be able to afford to bring in their targets and give better contracts to their up and coming starts. 
If as reported we are the only club properly interest then it really does give us the upper hand. 
We don’t need to always be the nice guys in trading, if they want rid of him and we are the only club he’s will to go to then the market price is whatever we are will to give them in terms of $$$$ of his contract and picks. 
 

WC come out and say they really want LJ, but won't include Pick 2 and we are helping a club salary dump, a currently injured, 29 year old and a first round pick is being thrown around as the payment.  Wow!

I think Grundy will be good for us, if he is fit,  btw.

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2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

WC come out and say they really want LJ, but won't include Pick 2 and we are helping a club salary dump, a currently injured, 29 year old and a first round pick is being thrown around as the payment.  Wow!

I think Grundy will be good for us, if he is fit,  btw.

I dont believe he will be fit.  Looks busted to me 

I think we should be carefull

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4 minutes ago, Kent said:

I dont believe he will be fit.  Looks busted to me 

I think we should be carefull

I would imagine we would be examining him with our medical team pretty closely, before any deal is done.

Of course there are no guarantees. He could do his knee in a scratch match.

I am thinking that the FD see this as Grundy being the main ruck during the season, doing lets say 60-70% and Max maybe the rest, with only a small amount of time forward, maybe just to unsettle defences. This would allow Max to remain fitter and fresher for finals and hopefully to play on longer. If a key forward went down in a game, Max might play a bit more there.

I could also see him not playing some interstate games as well. 

I see this as a way to prolong Max's career and have him as a fresh weapon in finals, as opposed to the banged up Max we had this year, with multiple injuries that he played through. It is obvious to me that the Max of this year's finals, was a shadow of last year's.

This could all be down to us managing one of our key assets.

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I'm warming to getting Grundy to cover Max. 

This year Max had knee issues, syndemosis, a bad back, op issues to go with his past 3 ACL's, hamstring issues and constantly being bashed around the head and felled to the ground.

I wouldn't mind a Geelong-Brad Ottens management plan for Max.  When Ottens started getting banged up they played him for 'big' games and sometimes put him in cotton wool for the finals.  Ottens' games in GF years were:

image.png.c4c7dd8cef8ca76e635d53214a6e5423.png

I just hope our policy of 'not resting' players is applied more judicially and we play Max less often keeping primed for Finals.  The blueprint is there with Ottens.

Then Grundy will be a very worthwhile investment.

Edit:  @RedlegI hadn't seen your post when I wrote this.  We are thinking along similar lines.

 

Edited by Lucifers Hero
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20 minutes ago, Redleg said:

I would imagine we would be examining him with our medical team pretty closely, before any deal is done.

Of course there are no guarantees. He could do his knee in a scratch match.

I am thinking that the FD see this as Grundy being the main ruck during the season, doing lets say 60-70% and Max maybe the rest, with only a small amount of time forward, maybe just to unsettle defences. This would allow Max to remain fitter and fresher for finals and hopefully to play on longer. If a key forward went down in a game, Max might play a bit more there.

I could also see him not playing some interstate games as well. 

I see this as a way to prolong Max's career and have him as a fresh weapon in finals, as opposed to the banged up Max we had this year, with multiple injuries that he played through. It is obvious to me that the Max of this year's finals, was a shadow of last year's.

This could all be down to us managing one of our key assets.

Makes perfect sense to me Mr. Leg

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1 minute ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I'm warming to getting Grundy to cover Max. 

This year Max had knee issues, syndemosis, a bad back, op issues to go with his past 3 ACL's, hamstring issues and constantly being bashed around the head and felled to the ground.

I wouldn't mind a Geelong-Brad Ottens management plan for Max.  When Ottens started getting banged up they played him for 'big' games and sometimes put him in cotton wool for the finals.  Ottens' games in GF years were:

image.png.371af0215b5a32d3501b08c2266a03ec.png

I just hope our policy of 'not resting' players is applied more judicially and we play Max less often keeping primed for Finals.  The blueprint is there with Ottens.

Then Grundy will be a very worthwhile investment.

This whole subject of getting Grundy says a lot about Jackson. Did the FD have little confidence in him filling that role or where they aware from the start of 2022 that he was off home to WA? 

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54 minutes ago, old dee said:

This whole subject of getting Grundy says a lot about Jackson. Did the FD have little confidence in him filling that role or where they aware from the start of 2022 that he was off home to WA? 

I suspect neither. 

The start date of the Jackson thread was Oct 2021 when negotiations started.  Negotiations stalled sometime early this year and talks went on hold. 

I suspect that having spent Oct to Jan back in Perth after two covid years ie at that time his whole life as an AFL footballer, locked out of WA, he/family questioned his longevity in Victoria. 

The two years locked out of home would have been very difficult. 

While Jackson was in Perth over the preseason, it gave Freo plenty of time to prepare a plan. 

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1 hour ago, Kent said:

Yes and Gawn has the capacity to kick lots of goals?

Gawn up forward will cost us a lot of goals as he doesn’t understand his own limitations. He is a terrible kick. He shouldn’t ever be up forward. The fact he has been is largely due to the fact we have a terrible forward line, which instead of rectifying it sounds as though we aim to further clog it up with ruck players who don’t belong anywhere near the big sticks. Trading for Grundy is a bigger waste of time, picks and resources as I’ve seen lately from MFC. 

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13 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Gawn up forward will cost us a lot of goals as he doesn’t understand his own limitations. He is a terrible kick. He shouldn’t ever be up forward. The fact he has been is largely due to the fact we have a terrible forward line, which instead of rectifying it sounds as though we aim to further clog it up with ruck players who don’t belong anywhere near the big sticks. Trading for Grundy is a bigger waste of time, picks and resources as I’ve seen lately from MFC. 

C'mon home, Braydon Preuss!!

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6 hours ago, layzie said:

Are people saying Collingwood will pay part of his contract working under the assumption that they will do so each year for the 5 remaining? Never heard this happen for this kind of duration before. 

I’d imagine the Pies and the Dees would firstly agree to a figure, the rumour floated was 300k per year. So 1.5 total. Then it’s a matter of moving the money to years that suit. If the Pies want the majority of it off the books quickly then they could go 600, 600, 100 x 3. Otherwise they may go a flat 300k per year. 

Either way we could then front load Grundy’s new deal to factor that in and pay him approx 600 x 5 of our own money 

The dogs reportedly signed Treloar for 5 years 3 million and got the Pies to pay the 1.5 of the rest of his deal with a lot of haggling over who pays what in which year.

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8 hours ago, old dee said:

This whole subject of getting Grundy says a lot about Jackson. Did the FD have little confidence in him filling that role or where they aware from the start of 2022 that he was off home to WA? 

I had very good mail ten weeks ago he was gone. So FD would have known  before that I'm sure..

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9 hours ago, Redleg said:

I would imagine we would be examining him with our medical team pretty closely, before any deal is done.

Of course there are no guarantees. He could do his knee in a scratch match.

I am thinking that the FD see this as Grundy being the main ruck during the season, doing lets say 60-70% and Max maybe the rest, with only a small amount of time forward, maybe just to unsettle defences. This would allow Max to remain fitter and fresher for finals and hopefully to play on longer. If a key forward went down in a game, Max might play a bit more there.

I could also see him not playing some interstate games as well. 

I see this as a way to prolong Max's career and have him as a fresh weapon in finals, as opposed to the banged up Max we had this year, with multiple injuries that he played through. It is obvious to me that the Max of this year's finals, was a shadow of last year's.

This could all be down to us managing one of our key assets.

Another option to prolong Max’s career would be to change the game plan! This years “play to our strengths, kick down the line, hug the boundary & work for a boundary throw in” game plan is all designed around the dominance of Max as a tap ruckman and around the ground marking/spoiling target. It is very physically demanding on the main man. And we now know it doesn’t work against good sides. A new game plan might use more running players through the corridor, less throw ins and less demands on Max. 

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On 9/14/2022 at 11:51 AM, rpfc said:

With Grundy our forward line becomes Gawn centred.

Gawn deep, with TMac/Brown up the ground, a couple of crumbers and the rest lead up forwards otherwise we are too top heavy next to Gawn:

Spargo McDonald JVR

Fritsch Gawn Pickett

Melksham/Medium forward on bench.

I'm not enamoured with Max playing even more time forward. Yes he will take contested marks etc., but he also sprays it all over the place. I assume Max, Goody and the rest of the coaching team have faith that they can correct his goal kicking technique and improve his goal percentage from set shots. 

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I was a bit sceptical about our potential recruiting of Brodie Grundy. My thinking was that we need a key forward more than anything. But the more I think about it, the more I am coming around to it.
 
I heard Josh Jenkins talk about the way some clubs use ruckmen these days. One plays in the back half and the other patrols the forward line. Imagine having big Brodie clunking everything inside defensive 50 while Maysie, Petts and Rick smash their defenders in one on ones. Then you've got Gawny dominating the airways up forward with T-Mac and young Rooey smashing into every pack and clearing bodies for the skip....
 
And then it comes to centre bounces. The Carlton back up ruckman in Silvagni goes into the middle breathing a sigh of relief that he can see big Max down in the goal square, only to look across the circle to see big Brodie staring across at him. There will be no let off for opposition at stoppages.
 
I would also feel a bit more comfortable with our game plan of kicking it long down the line when the opposition block our run when we have the two-headed Gawn/Grundy monster waiting to swallow the ball whole.
I'm starting to get a little excited by the thought of BG coming to the reigning premiers actually.
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20 hours ago, Redleg said:

WC come out and say they really want LJ, but won't include Pick 2 and we are helping a club salary dump, a currently injured, 29 year old and a first round pick is being thrown around as the payment.  Wow!

I think Grundy will be good for us, if he is fit,  btw.

He’s 28.

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I agree with @Lucifers Heroand @Redlegthat bringing Grundy in would have a big impact in keep Max primed for the big games. In addition to reducing his work load in each game it will also allow us to completely rest him in some games.
 

Had we had a fit Grundy on our list this year I suspect Max would of missed another 4/5 games to recover from injuries. However if Grundy had of been playing and reduced the workload on Max all season then perhaps he wouldn’t have picked up so many injuries.

I have been thinking about this a lot since we got beat by Brisbane and Im hoping that this will be a major shift in our coaching and fitness mentality this year. Moving away from the Burgess play on through pain mentality and adopt the same sort of attitude as Geelong have had this year by resting players to keep them fresh and injury free. 
We could adopt the adopt the same plan with our key forwards as BBB and Tmac could both benefit from being rested and managed over the course of the season. Another who I think always plays better fresh is Jack Viney who I think would benefit from missing a couple of games through the season. 
For us to be able to rest players we need to plan to be more flexible and willing to move the magnets around a bit. We would need to reward players playing well at Casey and also be more willing to move players around a bit move.                        Gus may go back to the wing or defence but he has shown enough that he can play in the middle while we rest somebody else. Likewise Petty could play one or two games up front to rest BBB and give us a different look. Try Bowey further forward.

We have options but we would need to be putting time in pre season into this. Having players able to play multiple roles would also enable us to make changes during games.

Sorry went way off topic. Just hoping that us going  for Grundy indicates we are changing our attitude and preparation with regards to keeping players fresher and just being a bit more flexible in our approach. 

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It doesn't get said enough and I don't want to sound like a suck but I appreciate all your points of view on this. This is why we have a message board!

I'm still not sold on it but I will say I'm open to some of the thoughts expressed here and what the FD might have in mind. It's a tricky one and there's good points for and against, if in the end we decide to take a calculated risk then it will fit the mould of 'not standing still' at least. 

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Another small thing picking up Grundy will help with is his ability to spend a lot more time on the ground than what Jackson did, that's understandable with a younger player mind you, but if Grundy can spend another 10% or so, time on ground, that's another 12-15 minutes bench time per game that can be used for our on-ballers. Both Max and Grundy have very high average time on ground stats for ruckmen, and if they were played/rested forward more then this might even increase. We could then refresh our explosive/impact players more. 

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22 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

I'm warming to getting Grundy to cover Max. 

This year Max had knee issues, syndemosis, a bad back, op issues to go with his past 3 ACL's, hamstring issues and constantly being bashed around the head and felled to the ground.

I wouldn't mind a Geelong-Brad Ottens management plan for Max.  When Ottens started getting banged up they played him for 'big' games and sometimes put him in cotton wool for the finals.  Ottens' games in GF years were:

image.png.c4c7dd8cef8ca76e635d53214a6e5423.png

I just hope our policy of 'not resting' players is applied more judicially and we play Max less often keeping primed for Finals.  The blueprint is there with Ottens.

Then Grundy will be a very worthwhile investment.

Edit:  @RedlegI hadn't seen your post when I wrote this.  We are thinking along similar lines.

 

Judiciously...

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1 hour ago, Red and Blue realist said:

Another small thing picking up Grundy will help with is his ability to spend a lot more time on the ground than what Jackson did, that's understandable with a younger player mind you, but if Grundy can spend another 10% or so, time on ground, that's another 12-15 minutes bench time per game that can be used for our on-ballers. Both Max and Grundy have very high average time on ground stats for ruckmen, and if they were played/rested forward more then this might even increase. We could then refresh our explosive/impact players more. 

That's a bit simplistic. You still need team balance, so having 2 pure ruckmen on the ground for large percentages may not help us win. It made sense with Jackson, because he's more of an on-baller than a traditional ruckman.

But if you want to give our explosive mids more rest, you should be looking at Spargo and Sparrow, who average between 65-70% game time, which is the lowest in our side.

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21 minutes ago, mo64 said:

That's a bit simplistic. You still need team balance, so having 2 pure ruckmen on the ground for large percentages may not help us win. It made sense with Jackson, because he's more of an on-baller than a traditional ruckman.

But if you want to give our explosive mids more rest, you should be looking at Spargo and Sparrow, who average between 65-70% game time, which is the lowest in our side.

Of course having some of the younger guys like Spargo and Sparrow able to play more effective time would help as well, but Jackson wasn't really ever used as an on-baller compared to a ruck who also played forward. He'll get there no doubt but his playing time wouldn't have reflected that at all this year.

The team balance certainly must play into the consideration of the list management team, which is why Goody pumped up Gawn's forward ability, so it'll never be a case of the old days where they just plonk a ruckman in the forward pocket, I'm sure they think that both Gawn and Grundy will be more than able contributors up forward (and maybe down back as well) when not in the ruck, I was just pointing out that compared to Jackson, Grundy will give the option of additional time on ground, so it'll allow other players more rest.

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    3 Steven May 34
    4 Alex Neal-Bullen 27
    5 Jack Viney 24
    6 Clayton Oliver 22
    7 Bayley Fritsch 19
    8 Judd McVee 15
    9 Christian Salem 12
    10 Blake Howes 11

        FULL TABLE
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