POSTGAME: Rd 17 vs Geelong

[DeeZee 6,732]

Another big problem for us us that our small forwards in ANB, Spargo and Kozzie (not so much) just don’t kick enough goals .

Id consider resting  a spargo , ANB or Bedford for another tall ?

Maybe time to try JVR??

I know that wasn’t our main problem last night as they smashed us in the middle, but we still have a few issues to work out up forward.

[TheWiz 692]

35 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Appreciate your comments mate. As someone who was at the ground would be good to know what the forward half looked like when we were rebounding off half back. The coverage was back to its typical rubbish last night with close in shots of contests without knowing what's happening upfield. So it was very frustrating seeing us try and handball in circles or take a split second too long to dispose of the footy but if there was nothing presenting upfield it's certainly understandable. Did we have no-one there? We're we outnumbered? Was it one on one contests with no clear targets?

I thought the Cats player us extremely well last night and we were clearly off. For all that we could have hit the lead with 10 minutes left. I still feel pretty positive after last night's game but we can't afford to drop many more games leading into finals.

 

SDK played as a spare for the first half. After that was generally one on one. Our forwards sat up quite high on the 50 to the centre square, which meant that we ended up kicking too long and turning it over. A couple of times we were lucky and had some speedsters to get out back.

Would have like to have seen our forwards head back to goal to create space on a tight oval. Worst thing that could happen is that we’d get a stoppage.

[1964_2 2,357]

23 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

I get it. You’re a pessimistic hand wringer and feel more comfortable thinking we will fail. You do you.  I’ll do me.  We’ll find out in 2 months who had a better read on our current circumstances. 

Assuming you meant to say “you do you Champion”  

[layzie 28,721]

I don't think the majority of our mis-kicks into the forward line had as much to do with forward structure as it had to do with fatigue and just mechanical error. There were a number times we had open men in the 50 and picked out the Geelong defender. 

[WalkingCivilWar 31,443]

If I never have to go back to that fetid cow paddock again it’ll still be too soon. 
 

[demoncat 631]

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

I was saying WE lacked another key forward because we failed to compete a few times. I think we went in with one too many small forwards.

I have to agree here. If we had have brought our pressure game and got the ball inside 50 faster our smalls would have been better able to mop up the spills and kick some goals (like in the Brisbane game). But when we reverted to slower and more predictable ball movement, we desperately needed another tall to kick to and to create a contest. Geelong really made us look undersized down back!

Having said that, another tall wouldn't have changed the outcome of that game because, as I said, we didn't bring our run and swarm that creates so many scoring opportunities for us.

[mo64 5,209]

Whilst I agree that the gap between VFL and AFL is massive, unless you give players an opportunity, how can they prove themselves?

JVR is a must in for me. You can see from the highlights that he's prepared to sit under the ball to take a mark, which is something lacking in Weid's game. And if he was selected next week, he'd probably be matched by Trent McKenzie.

[1964_2 2,357]

28 minutes ago, mo64 said:

Whilst I agree that the gap between VFL and AFL is massive, unless you give players an opportunity, how can they prove themselves?

JVR is a must in for me. You can see from the highlights that he's prepared to sit under the ball to take a mark, which is something lacking in Weid's game. And if he was selected next week, he'd probably be matched by Trent McKenzie.

In favour of this. If it’s too soon, and he struggles, it will be some motivation for him over pre-season to work harder 

& It would give our list managers a better idea of how urgently we need to add forward line talent for next year. 

Edited July 8, 2022 by 1964_2

[Fat Tony 4,403]

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

 I can't stand this and it makes me question our coaching.

Chris Scott spoke about our predictability in his post match conference.

He spoke about how we regularly have two 200cm players going up in packs and how they stopped it by making sure the crumbs didn’t fall gently to the front where Oliver and Petracca position themselves.

I would like to see us trying a few things before finals, such as occasionally attacking with short kicks through the heart of the opposition zone. While we might give away the odd turnover goal, it would make us less predictable. 

[dazzledavey36 48,734]

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

Another big problem for us us that our small forwards in ANB, Spargo and Kozzie (not so much) just don’t kick enough goals .

Id consider resting  a spargo , ANB or Bedford for another tall ?

Maybe time to try JVR??

I know that wasn’t our main problem last night as they smashed us in the middle, but we still have a few issues to work out up forward.

This has been my gripe this year.

Kozzie 15 games and 20 goals.

Spargo 16 games and 6 goals

ANB 15 games and 4 goals.

Bedford 7 games and 8 goals.

I know it's simple not all about goals but jesus christ you'd expect a bit more more offensive output from both Spargo and ANB. 

[old dee 22,852]

Well there goes my prediction of winning them all, did not even get one weeks grace.

 

[Fat Tony 4,403]

4 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This has been my gripe this year.

Kozzie 15 games and 20 goals.

Spargo 16 games and 6 goals

ANB 15 games and 4 goals.

Bedford 7 games and 8 goals.

I know it's simple not all about goals but jesus christ you'd expect a bit more more offensive output from both Spargo and ANB. 

Apart from Kossie, our small forwards are just good role players. I know we need a star key forward, but we don't have a great draft hand and it doesn't appear there is one in this draft. I think we could do worse than going for another small forward in the draft and trying to trade or use free agency for a key forward this year or next.

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 2,930]

6 hours ago, layzie said:

It's certainly not close to my favourite indigenous jumper, looking forward to the next design.

I bet we wear it again next week in Alice Springs. I’m not against an indigenous jumper at all, but that thing looks terrible and we’ve played terribly every time we have worn it. 

[demoncat 631]

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

Whilst I agree that the gap between VFL and AFL is massive, unless you give players an opportunity, how can they prove themselves?

JVR is a must in for me. You can see from the highlights that he's prepared to sit under the ball to take a mark, which is something lacking in Weid's game. And if he was selected next week, he'd probably be matched by Trent McKenzie.

I love how JVR is progressing and I'm pumped to see how he develops long term. My gut instinct says that he won't be playing this year and that we'll persevere with Weid if we bring back another tall - but you never know, we bought Bowey into the team as late as Round 20 and he slotted in perfectly. Having said that, Bowey had the luxury of playing in the best backline in the league with a lot of direction from players like May. I have a feeling that JVR would be asked to fill bigger shoes in a struggling forward line!

Edited July 8, 2022 by demoncat

[1964_2 2,357]

28 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Chris Scott spoke about our predictability in his post match conference.

He spoke about how we regularly have two 200cm players going up in packs and how they stopped it by making sure the crumbs didn’t fall gently to the front where Oliver and Petracca position themselves.

I would like to see us trying a few things before finals, such as occasionally attacking with short kicks through the heart of the opposition zone. While we might give away the odd turnover goal, it would make us less predictable. 

How smug was he. Well deserved though. We were out-played and out-coached.

It sounded to me, as if he was proudly showing off how he had cracked the code :- and making sure other coaches/teams would catch on to his views on the key reasons why we were beaten 

[Bates Mate 3,818]

32 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Chris Scott spoke about our predictability in his post match conference.

He spoke about how we regularly have two 200cm players going up in packs and how they stopped it by making sure the crumbs didn’t fall gently to the front where Oliver and Petracca position themselves.

I would like to see us trying a few things before finals, such as occasionally attacking with short kicks through the heart of the opposition zone. While we might give away the odd turnover goal, it would make us less predictable. 

Scott is right. We are so predicable and goody is very staunch on is playing consistently the same way. It has it's pros and cons .I always think back to the GF and how the mids where instructed to shut it down with a couple minutes to go in the 3rd and clarry and trac said F it and went for it . The rest is history. Point is predictable and methodical is often a good way to play but sometimes you have to just go for it and we haven't done it enough this year which has hurt us 

Edited July 8, 2022 by Bates Mate
.

[Fat Tony 4,403]

1 minute ago, 1964_2 said:

How smug was he. Well deserved though. We were out-played and out-coached.

It sounded to me, as if he was proudly showing off how he had cracked the code :- and making sure other coaches/teams would catch on to his views on the key reasons why we were beaten 

Scott is an excellent coach. We need to mix it up a bit because while our predictability was a strength initially, it can become a bit of a weakness if Max isn't marking everything.

[1964_2 2,357]

4 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

Scott is an excellent coach. We need to mix it up a bit because while our predictability was a strength initially, it can become a bit of a weakness if Max isn't marking everything.

Completely agree, the long down the line to Gawn/Brown, would be much more powerful, if we switched out of the backline more often, and forced the opposition to defend more potential scenarios. 

At least we have learnt some lessons now and not in the finals :-  lets just hope our coaching group are not too stubborn/proud to make some fundamental changes to the way we play. 

[DubDee 20,575]

Oliver sent for scans on his thumb…

[fr_ap 2,144]

1 hour ago, Vipercrunch said:

I get it. You’re a pessimistic hand wringer and feel more comfortable thinking we will fail. You do you.  I’ll do me.  We’ll find out in 2 months who had a better read on our current circumstances. 

Do you? I actually asked you to elaborate but you clearly don't know how to address my detailed points and instead resorted to a personal insult.  

I feel more comfortable acknowledging the statistical differences which are inarguable. You feel comfortable clinging to the past and assuming history will repeat itself. You're not the first to do it and won't be the last. The Media are good at it too.   

My assessment of our form does not turn on my 'comfort' with failure or success - I'm just repeating widely available objective stats that tell a story for those willing to listen. Goody & Co have repeatedly spoken about not looking at the past. If they were we would never have gotten off the 2019 canvas. If they're looking at '21 & saying "its all good, this happened last year" - not only would they be statistically wrong but they'd be fools as well. 

As the one drawing parallels to last year with no real justification - you clearly feel more comfortable with blind hope. At least acknowledge it rather than dropping last year's form-line like its a relevant analysis.     

For what it's worth, I clearly hope I am wrong and you are right 

[cantstandyasam 700]

16 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

We lost it in the clearances and particularly the centre clearances.

Weideman should have been playing tonight on the skinny ground. 

Our rucks were ordinary. 

May was moving like Frankenstein and fumbled. 

The Cats planned well to nullify Lever. 

Fritsch is too selfish. 

Fritsch burns players and misses those goals when he does. Needs to play team footy. May must stop being so predictable from a kickout and always kicking long to the left to a contest. We need a second tall Brown doesn't hold his marks - Weed needs to come in and play well. We must lower our eyes and stop trying to continually break tackles and get caught. 

[Fat Tony 4,403]

2 minutes ago, cantstandyasam said:

Fritsch burns players and misses those goals when he does. Needs to play team footy. May must stop being so predictable from a kickout and always kicking long to the left to a contest. We need a second tall Brown doesn't hold his marks - Weed needs to come in and play well. We must lower our eyes and stop trying to continually break tackles and get caught. 

May is kicking in long and left under instruction. Goodwin needs to loosen the shackles a bit on our strategy. Petty was free at the 50m line up the middle all night.

[cantstandyasam 700]

15 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

About time he gets called out for the [censored] selfishness that's cost us goals.

 

Please explain Bayley

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

11 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Do you? I actually asked you to elaborate but you clearly don't know how to address my detailed points and instead resorted to a personal insult.  

I feel more comfortable acknowledging the statistical differences which are inarguable. You feel comfortable clinging to the past and assuming history will repeat itself. You're not the first to do it and won't be the last. The Media are good at it too.   

My assessment of our form does not turn on my 'comfort' with failure or success - I'm just repeating widely available objective stats that tell a story for those willing to listen. Goody & Co have repeatedly spoken about not looking at the past. If they were we would never have gotten off the 2019 canvas. If they're looking at '21 & saying "its all good, this happened last year" - not only would they be statistically wrong but they'd be fools as well. 

As the one drawing parallels to last year with no real justification - you clearly feel more comfortable with blind hope. At least acknowledge it rather than dropping last year's form-line like its a relevant analysis.     

For what it's worth, I clearly hope I am wrong and you are right 

It's not that it's "all good", the point is that similar things were being said this time last year and look what happened. I'm not (and I assume others are not) saying, "relax we got this" and the flag is ours to lose - what we are saying is that the level of pessimism on here is out of whack. Let's see how things play out over the next 2 and a half months first before spitting the dummy.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,415]

I think what gets lost about Kardinia Park is that it is a narrow ground but is also longer. It is not a "smaller" ground, it is a skinnier ground. The Cats play the length well, several times they had players congregating at half forward where they raffled it and also picked through the zone at half back before going long. Trying to go long from deep in defense or across half back plays into the opposition's hands because you end up in no man's land (similar to Subiaco).