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Trade and Free Agency rumours

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24 minutes ago, rjay said:

Depth is an illusion...just saying.

You never can cover your top end talent.

We do it as well as any but you are always going to get lesser otherwise that replacement would be a regular.

As for age profile...the AFL draft system is set up to make it impossible to have a balanced list.

Why do you think Richmond is on the wane, Hawthorn have dropped back and Geelong are aged pensioners.

The Cat's have worked the system better than anyone and might just grab the reward this year but they're one Cameron hamstring off tears.

This is why we need to make the most of the next couple of years...

Undoubtedly we need to make the most of the next few years and have our 'dynasty'.

But then do we face a Geelong proportion cliff later this decade if we don't get pointy end draft picks (Jackson trade aside) for 5/6 years from 2020?

The age/quality challenge is partly brought about by having 6-8 players on long term contracts into their 30's which is unusual at other clubs that have had dynasties.  They have tended to have fewer long-term contracts giving them more flexibility in the out years.

I get why we have offered those long-term contracts but they will hold back keeping a balanced age/quality profile.

Edited by Lucifers Hero

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    I must admit that I have been fretting for a couple of years now that we are lacking a couple of young talls coming through to cover chf and ruck/forward this has been exacerbated by  LJ’s pending departure and Weid’s failure to come on and having MB and Majak as backup’s. I am confident that JVR will come into the team in 2023 but not excited about locking Grundy in for 5 years. The $700k a year would buy us two extra talls to fill the hole left by LJ. What happens if Grundy is a bust. If Jacko stays that will ease my anxiety but only marginally. I don’t want to see the club squander our future on a potential illusion.

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    2 minutes ago, DeeZone said:

    I must admit that I have been fretting for a couple of years now that we are lacking a couple of young talls coming through to cover chf and ruck/forward this has been exacerbated by  LJ’s pending departure and Weid’s failure to come on and having MB and Majak as backup’s. I am confident that JVR will come into the team in 2023 but not excited about locking Grundy in for 5 years. The $700k a year would buy us two extra talls to fill the hole left by LJ. What happens if Grundy is a bust. If Jacko stays that will ease my anxiety but only marginally. I don’t want to see the club squander our future on a potential illusion.

    If, and it remains a big if, LJ decides to move west and a reasonable trade can be negotiated we are one Max injury away from being completely hapless in ruck

    That is unsustainable for any football club much less one that wants to be competing at the pointy end of the season

    Even if LJ stays we are still very much in need of a back up ruck - for all those suggesting Weid can be competitive in the ruck I don't agree - we don't have to pay overs for this player (see Tom Hickey, Rhys Stanley as examples) 

    I'm sure our recruiting team has a list of potentials for ruck depth - we need to improve our depth in that space in the offseason   

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    20 minutes ago, rjay said:

    Depth is an illusion...just saying.

    You never can cover your top end talent.

    We do it as well as any but you are always going to get lesser otherwise that replacement would be a regular.

    As for age profile...the AFL draft system is set up to make it impossible to have a balanced list.

    Why do you think Richmond is on the wane, Hawthorn have dropped back and Geelong are aged pensioners.

    The Cat's have worked the system better than anyone and might just grab the reward this year but they're one Cameron hamstring off tears.

    This is why we need to make the most of the next couple of years...

    Great post mate.

    It's an interesting discussion because the l wonder whether it comes down to a black and white decision in list management terms.

    You either try to do what Geelong has done and keep your club around the mark and hope to challenge. Or, you draft a group of players together like we did and go really hard for 5 years and see if you can win 2 or 3 flags and then bottom out and load up again.

    The more time goes on, and having won the flag last year, my view on this is we should be aiming for the latter strategy.

    With the Grundy chase and the long term deals everywhere, it would appear the FD is of a similar view.

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    • Like 3

    We have Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw and Salem all signed up for at least 5 years, with the first two signed up even longer. That's the period we need to be looking at for our success. Whilst Oliver and Petracca are on the list, we are a chance at winning the flag. With Max still around we would be near-favourites.

    We should be maximising our ability to win flags over the next 6 years or so, whilst we have our best players playing their best footy. If that means that we have a moderately bad team after Petracca and Oliver retire, then so be it. The difference between finishing 10th and 16th in 2030 is not really important.

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    • Like 19
    • Love 1
    On 8/18/2022 at 11:11 AM, A F said:

    Who does he replace in the forward half? I'm not against it, just wondering. Because I wouldn't call him a pressure forward. He's an opportunist with good forward craft. Another Fritsch if you like. So more fire power, but what does that do to our pressure at ground level? 

    I think we need more pace in the forward half.

    WHO DOES HE REPLACE????

    MELKSHAM , MELKSHAM AND MELKSHAM OH AND DID I SAY MELKSHAM????

    BRUEST HARDLY EVER MISSES, MELKSHAM ON THE OTHER HAND........

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    • Sad 1
     

    Apparently Josh Schache from the Western Bulldogs is "desperate" to play for a new AFL Club.

    Could we consider him?

    He's a former number 2# AFL Draft pick from 2015.

    Originally from the Murray Bushrangers in the TAC Cup and is friends with Clayton Oliver.

    Even won the Larke Medal at the State Under 18 Championships back in 2015 too.

    He is 199cms tall and can be played in defence or up forward.

    Frustratingly, Josh really hasn't "gone on" with his career but a change of environment may do him good?

    He is still only 25 years old and may be a handy addition to our list?

    Anyway, I am interested in knowing your thoughts on Josh?

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    3 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

    Apparently Josh Schache from the Western Bulldogs is "desperate" to play for a new AFL Club.

    Could we consider him?

    He's a former number 2# AFL Draft pick from 2015.

    Originally from the Murray Bushrangers in the TAC Cup and is friends with Clayton Oliver.

    Even won the Larke Medal at the State Under 18 Championships back in 2015 too.

    He is 199cms tall and can be played in defence or up forward.

    Frustratingly, Josh really hasn't "gone on" with his career but a change of environment may do him good?

    He is still only 25 years old and may be a handy addition to our list?

    Anyway, I am interested in knowing your thoughts on Josh?

    No

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    3 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

    He's a former number 2# AFL Draft pick from 2015.

    Originally from the Murray Bushrangers in the TAC Cup and is friends with Clayton Oliver.

    Even won the Larke Medal at the State Under 18 Championships back in 2015 too.

    He is 199cms tall and can be played in defence or up forward.

    All these things were true on draft day in 2015.

    Since that day 7 years ago he has provided a mountain of evidence across multiple clubs of why he's not an AFL footballer. 

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    • Like 3
    • Sad 1
    4 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

    Apparently Josh Schache from the Western Bulldogs is "desperate" to play for a new AFL Club.

    Could we consider him?

    He's a former number 2# AFL Draft pick from 2015.

    Originally from the Murray Bushrangers in the TAC Cup and is friends with Clayton Oliver.

    Even won the Larke Medal at the State Under 18 Championships back in 2015 too.

    He is 199cms tall and can be played in defence or up forward.

    Frustratingly, Josh really hasn't "gone on" with his career but a change of environment may do him good?

    He is still only 25 years old and may be a handy addition to our list?

    Anyway, I am interested in knowing your thoughts on Josh?

    Lacks physicality and competitiveness for a big.

    And we already have two bigs in Weed and Brown who possess that trait. 

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    • Like 3
    13 hours ago, Garbo said:

    With Melbourne been the only party in the race hard to think pies will have any barging power particularly if him going is contingent on them bringing other players in. They might be stuck between a ruck and a hard place 

    Oh the Joy!

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    43 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

     

    Anyway, I am interested in knowing your thoughts on Josh?

    If you took a piece of bread, lathered it with butter, and covered it in melted cheese, it would be an equally physically menacing ALF player. 

    Not everyone has what it takes to be an AFL footballer and that is ok. 

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    • Haha 1
    3 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

    If you took a piece of bread, lathered it with butter, and covered it in melted cheese, it would be an equally physically menacing ALF player. 

    Not everyone has what it takes to be an AFL footballer and that is ok. 

    Perhaps Josh is as delicious as what you just described....

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    58 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

    Apparently Josh Schache from the Western Bulldogs is "desperate" to play for a new AFL Club.

    Could we consider him?

    He's a former number 2# AFL Draft pick from 2015.

    Originally from the Murray Bushrangers in the TAC Cup and is friends with Clayton Oliver.

    Even won the Larke Medal at the State Under 18 Championships back in 2015 too.

    He is 199cms tall and can be played in defence or up forward.

    Frustratingly, Josh really hasn't "gone on" with his career but a change of environment may do him good?

    He is still only 25 years old and may be a handy addition to our list?

    Anyway, I am interested in knowing your thoughts on Josh?

    🤮🤮🤮🤮
     

    He is soft and uncompetitive 

    Edited by Demons11

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    Ok....scratch the suggestion of Josh Schache from the Western Bulldogs. Bit of a case of too timid unfortunately I guess.

    What about two current Bombers that wanna leave Essendon?

    There's Aaron Francis who had enormous potential but still hasn't "kicked on" as either a forward or a defender.

    I know he was highly rated in his draft year back in 2015.

    However, Aaron is still incredibly talented and a change of scenery moving away from Essendon would probably do him good.

    Another Essendon player is wingman Brayden Ham who the Demons were keen on back in 2019 or 2020 I think?

    Would he be worth another look?

    Anyway, I am sure the Melbourne Demons List Management team is look at all these possibilities.

    Just wanted to hear what you all think about the options of Aaron Francis and Brayden Ham?

    Edited by Supreme_Demon

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    1 minute ago, Supreme_Demon said:

    Ok....scratch the suggestion of Josh Schache from the Western Bulldogs. Bit of a case of too timid unfortunately I guess.

    What about two current Bombers that wanna leave Essendon?

    There's Aaron Francis who had enormous potential but still hasn't "kicked on" either as either a forward or a defender.

    However, is still incredibly talented and a change of scenery moving away from Essendon would probably do him good.

    Another Essendon player is wingman Brayden Ham who the Demons were keen on back in 2019 or 2020 I think?

    Would he be worth another look?

    Anyway, I am sure the Melbourne Demons List Management team is look at all these possibilities.

    Just wanted to hear what you all think about the options of Aaron Francis and Brayden Ham?

    He's not good enough.

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    On 9/5/2022 at 10:49 AM, Redleg said:

    I am hearing that Setterfield and Stocker may be delisted by the Blues.

    Would think the Bombers and Roos would look at both.

    Where were you ET, I thought you were the world's best news breaker?

    Is Redleg the new newsbreaker?

    Stocker has been delisted and Setterfield is likely to be traded and is not being offered a new contract.

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    Josh Schache is the type of player that clubs look to grab on the cheap and then try to extract all his talent. As a former high draft pick, it’s tantalizing that you can see him fulfill his potential…and somehow put his mind to hard work and mental toughness.  
    I’m not against the idea of recruiting him for say a future 4th round pick. Unfortunately for the Dees, Schache would be like adding another Weideman.  Huge potential and might deliver but you might also just live in a constant state of frustration waiting for it to happen. 

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    33 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

    Huge potential

    Being an early pick is not the same as having huge potential.

    Edited by Axis of Bob

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    We know what we are going to get with Schache and the Weid. More of the same. They are not magically going to become competitive beasts

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    3 hours ago, Lucifers Hero said:

    Undoubtedly we need to make the most of the next few years and have our 'dynasty'.

    But then do we face a Geelong proportion cliff later this decade if we don't get pointy end draft picks (Jackson trade aside) for 5/6 years from 2020?

    The age/quality challenge is partly brought about by having 6-8 players on long term contracts into their 30's which is unusual at other clubs that have had dynasties.  They have tended to have fewer long-term contracts giving them more flexibility in the out years.

    I get why we have offered those long-term contracts but they will hold back keeping a balanced age/quality profile.

    There is no guarantee of a dynasty (I know you aren't saying it is) but our opportunity is now.

    I think if you want to win it then you are not going to be able to have a balanced list.

    It's either one or the other, the system just doesn't allow it.

    3 hours ago, Axis of Bob said:

    We have Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw and Salem all signed up for at least 5 years, with the first two signed up even longer. That's the period we need to be looking at for our success. Whilst Oliver and Petracca are on the list, we are a chance at winning the flag. With Max still around we would be near-favourites.

    We should be maximising our ability to win flags over the next 6 years or so, whilst we have our best players playing their best footy. If that means that we have a moderately bad team after Petracca and Oliver retire, then so be it. The difference between finishing 10th and 16th in 2030 is not really important.

    Posted similar but our timelines are different.

    I think 2 maybe 3 years (2024/2025 max) is what we have to win another flag/s from this list.

    Retirements/age (Max, May, Brown, Tommy Mac), fatigue from multiple finals campaigns and injury take real effect after this.

    Unless we try the Geelong approach and top up the list.

    ...but to date that hasn't been overly successful.

    If they happen to win it this year then watch all the copycats.

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