POSTGAME: Rd 05 vs GWS

[Wodjathefirst 2,628]

41 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Each to their own mate. I’m enjoying our form with some tongue in cheek comments. Feel free to scroll right past it next time 

Hmmm, not sure where you are coming from.  Did you read all the way down of what I wrote ?  My first two comments were meant to be tongue in cheek sarcasm!

I linked / referred  my comments to a post that  you made - which I think you had linked to someone else’s  ( or the other way round)- that I totally agreed with!!! 
(I think we are on the same page).  
 GO DEES 

Edited April 18, 2022 by Wodjathefirst
To provide more clarity

[Pates 9,625]

The last two weeks have been so enjoyable to watch, in both games there wasn’t one point where I actually thought we could be in trouble. And then that third quarter was the first time I reckon we have genuinely got ourselves into a gear near to the Grand Final, what a joy to watch live!

[BAMF 4,119]

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Anyone see the irony and a tint of sadness in watching Jesse Hogan on Saturday night?

Got given an absolute bath by the bloke that we pretty much traded a direct swap for.  I'll also add that Harrison Petty when on him at times towelled him up as well. 

Steven May has gone on to become an All Australian full back and premiership player, whereas Hogan has had off field issued and at his third club after Freo pushed him out the door quick enough.

The tint of sadness is that I honestly thought after his 2015 season he was going to go on to becoming the games best forward in the competition and certainly had the potential to be an 60-80 goal a season superstar CHF.

Watching on Saturday night, it simply confirmed that nothing has changed with him. The dude is 27 and is body language is still poor, he still abuses teammates for not hitting directly at his chest and then wanting to sit out the back wanting the cheap goal over the top. 

A player that will always talked about as 'what could have been'.

Not really. Jesse could have and should have been a champion. While injuries played a big part, I believe it was largely attitude based that he hasn't made it. He had a lot go wrong for him as a young man but he is at GWS and not playing terrible football. He seems in a good place where he can excel if his body holds up.

I was gutted that he went home. I still have a soft spot for him but we won that trade by a long way.

As for booing him... I never bother to boo players who have left, but it's an AFL tradition to boo players who leave your club no matter what the circumstances. Im not surprised he is booed. Hell... Isaac Smith was constantly booed today and he won multiple flags at the Hawks. It's dumb but the masses enjoy it as part of the game.

 

[Jaded No More 67,687]

8 hours ago, Nasher said:

To be honest dazz I reckon it’s more likely that we were all desperately hanging out for our next big thing and got carried away in how we rated him. No doubt the off-field distractions didn’t help, but I think it’s probably true that he just is what he is: a decent but not great tall forward.

All the talent but no heart. 
He has great skills and a good tank. Could have been a wonderful forward or even a half back flanker or wingman. Just doesn’t apply himself enough and has found the absolute perfect fit in GWS. A team of really good individual players who do not care if they win or lose. 
He wouldn’t get a game at Melbourne with the lack of effort I saw on Saturday.
 

But he’s still going to retire at 30 with more money in the bank than most of us will ever have in our lifetime, so good for him and I hope his post footy life bring him a lot more joy than his career has. 

[Fat Tony 5,084]

Why did TMac take so many ruck contests?

[Macca 16,627]

The 3rd quarter avalanche of 10 goals reminded me of the recent Richmond team at their very best ... retaining possession at breakneck speed whilst moving the ball forward (quickly) until ultimately scoring a goal from not far out around the hot spot

Pressure, pressure, pressure until the other mob cracks

Total team footy and we're very good at it

And 10 different goalkickers in that same 3rd quarter was quite remarkable

Another observation is the team finding a way to 'save the legs' in the last quarter of games ... every game this year so far?

The FD is just so professional now ... something that we probably could never really see happening

But it is happening so enjoy the wins

[Dr. Gonzo 23,715]

9 hours ago, binman said:

I was ropable that people were booing him. 

I'm the same, although someone said to me they were booing the free kick not Hogan. I hope so because he doesn't deserve it, we kinda forced him out anyway on top of all the issues he he to deal with on top of leaving home earlier than most draftees.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Dr. Gonzo

[SPC 3,479]

Sitting on the fence on the wing, couldn't help but be amazed at how much Jack Viney has improved. Always thought he was limited with his skills and decision making. Now he just looks a different player and I am so pleased to have been wrong. He will catch a lot of teams off guard with the attention on the 2 bulls. 

[dazzledavey36 52,828]

12 minutes ago, SPC said:

Sitting on the fence on the wing, couldn't help but be amazed at how much Jack Viney has improved. Always thought he was limited with his skills and decision making. Now he just looks a different player and I am so pleased to have been wrong. He will catch a lot of teams off guard with the attention on the 2 bulls. 

First full pre season in many years.

Definitely showing out in his game.

[Nasher 33,607]

36 minutes ago, SPC said:

Sitting on the fence on the wing, couldn't help but be amazed at how much Jack Viney has improved. Always thought he was limited with his skills and decision making. Now he just looks a different player and I am so pleased to have been wrong. He will catch a lot of teams off guard with the attention on the 2 bulls. 

I love that he’s added goal kicking to his repertoire. I wonder if that’s been something he specifically set out to add to his game, or if it’s just panned out that way?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,648]

10 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm the same, although someone said to me they were booing the free kick not Hogan. I hope so because he doesn't deserve it, we kinda forced him out anyway on top of all the issues he he to deal with on top of leaving home earlier than most draftees.

I was at the game and don't recall hearing any booing of Hogan. He showed his trademark body language when the ball wasn't delivered properly...but that was the story of the night. GWS looked more than competent with their disposal between the 50m arcs but their final disposals into the forward line were woeful all evening. Neither Hogan nor Himmelberg (or even Haynes when he went forward) could get the ball because the delivery to them was so poor. 

[sisso 2,555]

GWS have got the makeup of their side badly out of balance - way too many inside mids who rack up big possession numbers but not enough outside run and no key targets to kick it to. Makes you wonder how its possible to have that many top picks and not be able to draft or trade for some key position players.

[Return to Glory 8,232]

1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I was at the game and don't recall hearing any booing of Hogan. He showed his trademark body language when the ball wasn't delivered properly...but that was the story of the night. GWS looked more than competent with their disposal between the 50m arcs but their final disposals into the forward line were woeful all evening. Neither Hogan nor Himmelberg (or even Haynes when he went forward) could get the ball because the delivery to them was so poor. 

 

12 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

All the talent but no heart. 
He has great skills and a good tank. Could have been a wonderful forward or even a half back flanker or wingman. Just doesn’t apply himself enough and has found the absolute perfect fit in GWS. A team of really good individual players who do not care if they win or lose. 
He wouldn’t get a game at Melbourne with the lack of effort I saw on Saturday.
 

But he’s still going to retire at 30 with more money in the bank than most of us will ever have in our lifetime, so good for him and I hope his post footy life bring him a lot more joy than his career has.

Agree with both. 

My observation (others may think differently) is that Jesse has a negative energy about him and it impacts every team he plays for. He’s a culture killer.

I do understand that he’s had some setbacks. I also know there’s a bloke playing for Carlton who’s fought cancer twice and is a leader of the club. And that there are many other players who have overcome tremendous adversity. The childhood of David Schwartz is a case in point. 

I was a big supporter of Jesse. Somewhere along the way he lost me. Not that he would give two hoots!! And I guess that’s fair enough.

 

 

 

[Bitter but optimistic 22,065]

4 minutes ago, Return to Glory said:

 

Agree with both. 

My observation (others may think differently) is that Jesse has a negative energy about him and it impacts every team he plays for. He’s a culture killer.

I do understand that he’s had some setbacks. I also know there’s a bloke playing for Carlton who’s fought cancer twice and is a leader of the club. And that there are many other players who have overcome tremendous adversity. The childhood of David Schwartz is a case in point. 

I was a big supporter of Jesse. Somewhere along the way he lost me. Not that he would give two hoots!! And I guess that’s fair enough.

 

 

 

As always you make valid points RTG.

But ...... well.... I just can't help liking Jesse.

[layzie 32,883]

Not being able to make it on Sat I'm disappointed to hear that Jesse was booed. I don't pay heaps of attention or hold special love for ex players (Seeing Jeremy Howe's 200th was bittersweet) but I do have a soft spot for Jesse Hogan and like many wish the chips could have just fallen differently for him.

The harsh truth is that there is a lot going against him and it's going to be quite a battle to carve out a successful AFL career from here. His mental health, his body, the guy can't string a succession of games together and it's my opinion (would love to be proven wrong) that he has 3 years left in the game tops. I had a similar feeling with Watts at Port that he was probably not going to be an early 30s twilight performer and would give it away and he did. Whatever the future looks like from here on out I genuinely hope it works out for him. 

[Cards13 9,117]

1 hour ago, Nasher said:

I love that he’s added goal kicking to his repertoire. I wonder if that’s been something he specifically set out to add to his game, or if it’s just panned out that way?

Yze noted it on the Dland podcast that all Mids have to move forward, not just to the bench, to rest. All the best mids are able to go fwd and hit the scoreboard so you need to as well.

So you could assume they're working on improving goal kicking as a skill like we have seen with Maxi.

[Return to Glory 8,232]

3 minutes ago, Bitter but optimistic said:

As always you make valid points RTG.

But ...... well.... I just can't help liking Jesse.

It's funny BBO. As soon as I posted, I did wonder why I had this need to comment on him. My daughter had the Jesse Hogan badge and wanted his name on a duffle coat. 

Ok, there's still a soft spot. But bloody hell

 

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,749]

6 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I was at the game and don't recall hearing any booing of Hogan. He showed his trademark body language when the ball wasn't delivered properly...but that was the story of the night. GWS looked more than competent with their disposal between the 50m arcs but their final disposals into the forward line were woeful all evening. Neither Hogan nor Himmelberg (or even Haynes when he went forward) could get the ball because the delivery to them was so poor. 

I  was there and didn't hear booing of Hoges, either.  I think he got a dubious spoiling free, so perhaps some people booed for that.

I hate the way some teams' supporters boo all the time( esp. WCE).  I hope Demon fans don't stoop to that level.

(Booing may be somewhat justified when there's a mysterious free or 50m penalty, but booing particular players throughout a match is distasteful.)

[Dee Zephyr 19,158]

I only heard the booing twice, both times when Jesse was lining up for goals. I would like to think it was just to put him off rather than booing him directly. There were also a few other boos when GWS players were lining up.

[leave it to deever 17,457]

7 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

First full pre season in many years.

Definitely showing out in his game.

Yep

Trac, Oliver, Viney and Sparrow are a dangerous combination.

Edited April 19, 2022 by leave it to deever

[Little Goffy 14,010]

12 hours ago, SPC said:

Sitting on the fence on the wing, couldn't help but be amazed at how much Jack Viney has improved. Always thought he was limited with his skills and decision making. Now he just looks a different player and I am so pleased to have been wrong. He will catch a lot of teams off guard with the attention on the 2 bulls. 

Whenever I read or hear or have a chat with someone who wants to tell me all about my club, Viney gets a mention as symbolic of the disciplined coverage at stoppages and around the group which makes it so hard to get good quality clearances against us.

Let us all take a moment to remember the frustration of just a couple of seasons ago when we would see, far too often and far too easily, opposition mids break away from a stoppage without having to so much as evade. Back then it was 'oh, we didn't win the clearance, so now it is up to the defenders'.

It took me a moment to figure out who it was I was being reminded of - Viney being mixed with Petracca and Oliver puts him in a  position a bit like James Kelly during the Geelong golden run. A fixture in the best 22, a three time premiership player, an All-Australian, but never the leading light.

Mind you, in-form Viney is a step up on Kelly, especially now that his brain understands the limits of his body and he knows he doesn't have to be a hero.

[DeeSpencer 24,768]

11 hours ago, sisso said:

GWS have got the makeup of their side badly out of balance - way too many inside mids who rack up big possession numbers but not enough outside run and no key targets to kick it to. Makes you wonder how its possible to have that many top picks and not be able to draft or trade for some key position players.

They know it and have tried to address it, they took a number of talls early in their first go at building a side and even now are pretty well stocked down back with Taylor, Haynes, Buckley (underrated player coming back from an ACL) and a big body veteran in Keefe or Davis. I don't think they expect to loose Corr either. They deliberately used an early pick on Leek Aller who I think will prove a good talent but needs time.

Their forwards are more troubling. Lost Sunshine McCarthy. Lost Jeremy Cameron. Lost Finlayson as anything like a competent player. They've tried to fill the void with Hogan, Brander and Riccardi. Hoges got pretty close to playing good footy last year, just had a heap of injury interruptions. I really hope he can make something of it up there.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

On 4/18/2022 at 9:30 PM, BAMF said:

Not really. Jesse could have and should have been a champion. While injuries played a big part, I believe it was largely attitude based that he hasn't made it. He had a lot go wrong for him as a young man but he is at GWS and not playing terrible football. He seems in a good place where he can excel if his body holds up.

I was gutted that he went home. I still have a soft spot for him but we won that trade by a long way.

As for booing him... I never bother to boo players who have left, but it's an AFL tradition to boo players who leave your club no matter what the circumstances. Im not surprised he is booed. Hell... Isaac Smith was constantly booed today and he won multiple flags at the Hawks. It's dumb but the masses enjoy it as part of the game.

 

Not with the way he kicks the ball.

[jnrmac 19,896]

23 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Yze noted it on the Dland podcast that all Mids have to move forward, not just to the bench, to rest. All the best mids are able to go fwd and hit the scoreboard so you need to as well.

So you could assume they're working on improving goal kicking as a skill like we have seen with Maxi.

Viney has kicked a goal every game so that appears to be working...

[jnrmac 19,896]

12 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

Whenever I read or hear or have a chat with someone who wants to tell me all about my club, Viney gets a mention as symbolic of the disciplined coverage at stoppages and around the group which makes it so hard to get good quality clearances against us.

Let us all take a moment to remember the frustration of just a couple of seasons ago when we would see, far too often and far too easily, opposition mids break away from a stoppage without having to so much as evade. Back then it was 'oh, we didn't win the clearance, so now it is up to the defenders'.

It took me a moment to figure out who it was I was being reminded of - Viney being mixed with Petracca and Oliver puts him in a  position a bit like James Kelly during the Geelong golden run. A fixture in the best 22, a three time premiership player, an All-Australian, but never the leading light.

Mind you, in-form Viney is a step up on Kelly, especially now that his brain understands the limits of his body and he knows he doesn't have to be a hero.

Except this seems exactly how we are playing. We are losing clearances regularly and creating our scoring opportunities from defence.

We are often 1 down at stoppages as if we are happy to concede them. Oppo clearances are rarely out the front though and are almost always sideways or 'dirty' - meaning f50 entries are shallow and easier to defend...

At least that is my observation....