8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Some key metrics (averages) to compare B Brown's three game stint against Weideman's five game stint:

• Disposals: B Brown 8.3, Weideman 8.0
• Marks: B Brown 3.3, Weideman 3.2
• Contested marks: B Brown 1.0, Weideman 1.0
• Goals: B Brown 1.7, Weideman 0.6
• Shots on goal: B Brown 3.0, Weideman 2.0
• Goal accuracy: B Brown 55.6%, Weideman, 30%
• Score involvements: B Brown 4.3, Weideman 3.2
• Goal assists: B Brown 0.3, Weideman 0.4
• Tackles: B Brown 0.7, Weideman 1.8
• Tackles inside 50: B Brown 0.7, Weideman 0.4
• Pressure acts: B Brown 5.3, Weideman 6.2
• Forward half pressure acts: B Brown 4.3, Weideman 3.4 

Bear in mind B Brown's games were against North, Sydney and Carlton, whereas Weideman's games have been against Carlton, Adelaide, Bulldogs, Brisbane and Collingwood.

IMO, the stats show that Weideman does more defensively but that's generally further up the ground (his pressure acts and tackles are higher than Brown's but not in the forward half or inside 50). Otherwise on all other metrics Brown did more in his time in the seniors than Weid has, and the critical one is that Brown's good for an entire goal a game more than Weid.

However, neither group of numbers sets the world on fire.

All of Brown’s games were played in wet or poor conditions for AFL footy (maybe a bit harsh on Tassie as I think it was an OK day for once there against North). Weideman has played every game bar 1 in perfect conditions for a tall forward and still clearly inferior to Brown statistically. 
So Brown has kicked more goals in fewer games in poorer conditions, and has played about 5x as many good seasons as Weideman has played games. 
Absolutely baffling. I wanted Weid gone after the Crows game, how he’s still here doing nothing a month on has me stumped. It would be like playing OMac ahead of May in 2019. 

2 minutes ago, No Plan B said:

All of Brown’s games were played in wet or poor conditions for AFL footy (maybe a bit harsh on Tassie as I think it was an OK day for once there against North). Weideman has played every game bar 1 in perfect conditions for a tall forward and still clearly inferior to Brown statistically. 
So Brown has kicked more goals in fewer games in poorer conditions, and has played about 5x as many good seasons as Weideman has played games. 
Absolutely baffling. I wanted Weid gone after the Crows game, how he’s still here doing nothing a month on has me stumped. It would be like playing OMac ahead of May in 2019. 

Good point.

I do wonder if Weid would have been given as much time if we were say 6-6 rather than 11-1 coming into this game 

56 minutes ago, OhMyDees said:

Don’t forget a few of our other first rounder fails at the National Draft…

Cale Morton (Pick 4 - 2007)

Lucas Cook (Pick 12 - 2010) 

Jimmy Toumpas (Pick 4 - 2012)

Scully, Watts, Grimes and Trengove were disappointments as well for different reasons. It took nine seasons to work out Watts was never going to be the real deal. But we were crap then and clinging to delusions. Now 6 seasons of patience is enough to say let’s move on. 

8 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

I do wonder if Weid would have been given as much time if we were say 6-6 rather than 11-1 coming into this game 

For sure he is being carried because of our good form. We could afford to let him play himself into form. Same as Jones fast tracked to his 300 and then dropped. On form he was barely adequate. If we were 3-3 he would have taken the rest of the season to reach the milestone. 

Edited June 14, 20213 yr by John Crow Batty

21 minutes ago, Dwight Schrute said:

I do wonder if Weid would have been given as much time if we were say 6-6 rather than 11-1 coming into this game 

I don’t think so - which points to hubris. Others can call it something else and in any case i don’t think it can continue

I watched some other games this weekend. All the teams I saw have key forwards who, even in bottom teams, or whose side was losing on the day, or was individually under duress from defenders, were still able to take grabs, create opportunities, and cause defensive havoc. Weed did none of those things.

(The only one -- apart from Weed --  who looked right out of it was the King from GCS but he is too early in his career, and shows too much promise, to make any call on.)

Weed may be the ultimate confidence player, but it's now clear he will never get confidence at this level. What started as normal player development devolved into an experiment in developing Sam as a project player. Like he was a younger Harley Bennell or a better Karmichael Hunt or something. But the experiment is now over.

harry mckay has signed a two year extension with carlton; takes him thru to free agency

Give him a break for a few games then play him in defence for a while.

4 minutes ago, Left Foot Snap said:

Give him a break for a few games then play him in defence for a while.

At Casey.

1 hour ago, Mickey said:

It might be best for Sam and the club that he moves on. We get a second round pick in and hopefully find a young key forward to develop.

If he does move to Collingwood, the pressure is only going to increase

McKay has signed a deal to take him to free agency in 2 years time. We should be laying the groundwork (if possible) to bring him in as a free agent. I'd hate to see him go to Geelong or Richmond.  We can draft a youngster now as well. 

I wonder if we could work on Majak as a key defender and try Petty up the ground. IIRC he had a game or so in the forward line a year or so ago and did pretty well.

1 hour ago, John Crow Batty said:

Now six seasons of patience is enough to say let’s move on. 

Correct.  He's played two good games for us. 

Every year people say "This will be he's year".  Not going to happen.

Edited June 15, 20213 yr by one_demon

It is over not a senior level talent not even a good back up would rather have the other brown. He has played more good games at the bombers and us than Weideman will ever play. An early pick that has not worked. It happens to all clubs. Over and out move on.

 

1 hour ago, Left Foot Snap said:

Give him a break for a few games then play him in defence for a while.

Why upset the league's best defence (until yesterday).

Its looking for a solution to a problem.

The solution is Sam doesn't make the cut.

1 hour ago, Left Foot Snap said:

few games

Months*

Wied looks like he's tanking when we are on top of the ladder.

He is a good bloke and I wish him well. Just hope it's not at Melbourne

I think that experiment has now concluded. Weid knows, we know it, the club knows it. Obviously not helping his confidence but it doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. If he had a body of work in the past that could give us promise, then you would kpersist until he might find some of that form. But he had a handful of good games in the finals and nothing since. Time to trade / delist and move on. I would highly doubt he get another game this year (unless due to injury or he kicks a ridiculous amount of goals in the VFL). 

The attention now has to turn to building cohesion with TMac, BBB and LG in the forward line - leading patterns, crumbing, structure etc. We know BBB's strengths and weaknesses so adjust the Game Plan accordingly. 

BBB and TMac will give us another 2-3 years to find a longer term solution either through trade or draft. The Key Forward position will now certainly be high on the recruitment radar. Alternatively if we pickup another long term ruck prospect (some have mentioned the young man of African heritage from the NAB league whose name escapes me right now), we may focus on playing LJ as a permanent key position forward and build a forward line around LG, Fritsch, Kozzy, Spargs, ANB beyond TMac, BBB years. 

I've never been a fan of Weideman, but I've also never judged him solely on goals, marks and disposals.

His output against Brisbane & W.Bulldogs was poor, but he was at least getting to contests and getting his hands on the ball (before fumbling).

His effort yesterday (or lack thereof) was putrid. He wasn't even in the screen in most of our 54 forward entries, including a number of occasions when his direct opponent took uncontested marks. 

If I saw a stat line of 0 scores, 0 marks, 0 kicks & 1 tackle, I would assume the bloke played the last 2 minutes as a medical sub, not a full game in perfect conditions.

I said two years ago that his only chance of being a successful AFL footballer was as a defender,  and it was just a matter of whether we made the move or his next club did. He is a nice looking footballer who thrives in a sub-standard VFL competition, but he simply doesn't have the competitiveness or workrate to be a quality forward at AFL level.

There is no question that he must be dropped for the Essendon game and, if the VFL comp doesn't resurface soon, it is hard to see him playing another game for the club.

 

Played very well in the two 2018 MCG finals, had a solid block of form last year before Luke Jackson tore his hamstring which left Sam as the only key forward. However, his recent form has been really disappointing. Hope he can turn it around.

9 minutes ago, poita said:

I've never been a fan of Weideman, but I've also never judged him solely on goals, marks and disposals.

His output against Brisbane & W.Bulldogs was poor, but he was at least getting to contests and getting his hands on the ball (before fumbling).

His effort yesterday (or lack thereof) was putrid. He wasn't even in the screen in most of our 54 forward entries, including a number of occasions when his direct opponent took uncontested marks. 

If I saw a stat line of 0 scores, 0 marks, 0 kicks & 1 tackle, I would assume the bloke played the last 2 minutes as a medical sub, not a full game in perfect conditions.

I said two years ago that his only chance of being a successful AFL footballer was as a defender,  and it was just a matter of whether we made the move or his next club did. He is a nice looking footballer who thrives in a sub-standard VFL competition, but he simply doesn't have the competitiveness or workrate to be a quality forward at AFL level.

There is no question that he must be dropped for the Essendon game and, if the VFL comp doesn't resurface soon, it is hard to see him playing another game for the club.

 

Good coverage of the situation 

25 minutes ago, CYB said:

I think that experiment has now concluded. Weid knows, we know it, the club knows it. Obviously not helping his confidence but it doesn't take a genius to put 2 and 2 together. If he had a body of work in the past that could give us promise, then you would kpersist until he might find some of that form. But he had a handful of good games in the finals and nothing since. Time to trade / delist and move on. I would highly doubt he get another game this year (unless due to injury or he kicks a ridiculous amount of goals in the VFL). 

The attention now has to turn to building cohesion with TMac, BBB and LG in the forward line - leading patterns, crumbing, structure etc. We know BBB's strengths and weaknesses so adjust the Game Plan accordingly. 

BBB and TMac will give us another 2-3 years to find a longer term solution either through trade or draft. The Key Forward position will now certainly be high on the recruitment radar. Alternatively if we pickup another long term ruck prospect (some have mentioned the young man of African heritage from the NAB league whose name escapes me right now), we may focus on playing LJ as a permanent key position forward and build a forward line around LG, Fritsch, Kozzy, Spargs, ANB beyond TMac, BBB years. 

I believe Petty might be an experimental option up forward in the right circumstances. He’s done well on the few occasions playing in attack.

29 minutes ago, poita said:

 

His effort yesterday (or lack thereof) was putrid. He wasn't even in the screen in most of our 54 forward entries, including a number of occasions when his direct opponent took uncontested marks.

 

69% game time but whenever he was on I didn't see him either bar one decent spoil
He spent the 4th most time on the bench out of the entire side yesterday

2 hours ago, Left Foot Snap said:

Give him a break for a few games then play him in defence for a while.

I presume you mean at Casey?

There's a 0% chance he starts playing in our backline after having never played defence.

 

We cant play BB off teh back of no VFL footy, he need e a month of solid games to get his match fitness at a level, that has all but evaporated.. he cannot come in to teh side until he gets a bank of games into his legs, no footy last year, minimum pre season.. its not fair on him. He should be coming in in r16 ready to get going.

Mitch Brown is the player, he is mobile, we looked better in attack when he played, mobile.