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4 hours ago, BW511 said:

I have mentioned this before, but I expect Carlton to start rising reasonably quickly.

They have a lot of very good players in their core group and if Vossy can get a few of the suspect ones to give a little more consistent effort, sky is the limit

Oh dear, lapping up the delusional words of their Pres (below)?! Spare me.

We've heard about these expectations and predictions for years.

As much as I like and respect Cook, I can't see a bunch of second-choices and second-raters delivering them to the promised land any time soon. That warms my heart, having endured too much Carlton success (and arrogance) following footy from the late 70s, early 80s.

On-field defensively (I'm talking about whole-team defence), they are pathetic. Listless. Outside Weitering, they have a bunch of one-way running, unaccountable, selfish, possession gatherers who are not prepared to sacrifice their game. We know exactly how important this is and how long it takes to get that part of the game right. Bloody years and years.

Their first-round drafting since 2016 has been - to put it kindly - grossly ineffective (SPS, Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Kemp, Philp) except for Walsh. I know it's early days for a couple of those guys, but these are the blokes that should form the core of a team that contends - and I don't think they do. Perhaps acknowledging their hit-and-miss (mostly miss) drafting of top-end talent in the last 5 years, they've decided to trade out their first-round draft picks in the last couple of years for over-paid so-called stars, also for questionable returns.

As for Vossy, the jury is well and truly out. Things ended acrimoniously at the Lions, relationships broke down. He may have changed his ways. He may have discovered himself and learnt how to delegate, trust and manage people. The word out of Port is positive. But I wonder. His merry band of 'Traveling Wilburys' assistant coaches does nothing for me, either.

In short, I hope (and expect) they stay in a deep, dark blue footballing abyss for a long, long time.

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20 minutes ago, Ben E said:

Oh dear, lapping up the delusional words of their Pres (below)?! Spare me.

We've heard about these expectations and predictions for years.

As much as I like and respect Cook, I can't see a bunch of second-choices and second-raters delivering them to the promised land any time soon. That warms my heart, having endured too much Carlton success (and arrogance) following footy from the late 70s, early 80s.

On-field defensively (I'm talking about whole-team defence), they are pathetic. Listless. Outside Weitering, they have a bunch of one-way running, unaccountable, selfish, possession gatherers who are not prepared to sacrifice their game. We know exactly how important this is and how long it takes to get that part of the game right. Bloody years and years.

Their first-round drafting since 2016 has been - to put it kindly - grossly ineffective (SPS, Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Kemp, Philp) except for Walsh. I know it's early days for a couple of those guys, but these are the blokes that should form the core of a team that contends - and I don't think they do. Perhaps acknowledging their hit-and-miss (mostly miss) drafting of top-end talent in the last 5 years, they've decided to trade out their first-round draft picks in the last couple of years for over-paid so-called stars, also for questionable returns.

As for Vossy, the jury is well and truly out. Things ended acrimoniously at the Lions, relationships broke down. He may have changed his ways. He may have discovered himself and learnt how to delegate, trust and manage people. The word out of Port is positive. But I wonder. His merry band of 'Traveling Wilburys' assistant coaches does nothing for me, either.

In short, I hope (and expect) they stay in a deep, dark blue footballing abyss for a long, long time.

image.thumb.png.96f2707481cba6d0f76eeb87cd4629d8.png

I was thinking they might rise but wtf is that tweet or post? Be professional FFS and let your good work do the talking. 

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That is a bizarre tweet from sayers. Quizzical human from the limited amount I've seen. 

That said I also the blues have got some potential to rise. 

Walsh, McKay & weitering are outstanding.  Need a better game plan and some pace through the middle will be competitive week in week out, at the very least. 

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39 minutes ago, Ben E said:

Oh dear, lapping up the delusional words of their Pres (below)?! Spare me.

We've heard about these expectations and predictions for years.

As much as I like and respect Cook, I can't see a bunch of second-choices and second-raters delivering them to the promised land any time soon. That warms my heart, having endured too much Carlton success (and arrogance) following footy from the late 70s, early 80s.

On-field defensively (I'm talking about whole-team defence), they are pathetic. Listless. Outside Weitering, they have a bunch of one-way running, unaccountable, selfish, possession gatherers who are not prepared to sacrifice their game. We know exactly how important this is and how long it takes to get that part of the game right. Bloody years and years.

Their first-round drafting since 2016 has been - to put it kindly - grossly ineffective (SPS, Dow, O'Brien, Stocker, Kemp, Philp) except for Walsh. I know it's early days for a couple of those guys, but these are the blokes that should form the core of a team that contends - and I don't think they do. Perhaps acknowledging their hit-and-miss (mostly miss) drafting of top-end talent in the last 5 years, they've decided to trade out their first-round draft picks in the last couple of years for over-paid so-called stars, also for questionable returns.

As for Vossy, the jury is well and truly out. Things ended acrimoniously at the Lions, relationships broke down. He may have changed his ways. He may have discovered himself and learnt how to delegate, trust and manage people. The word out of Port is positive. But I wonder. His merry band of 'Traveling Wilburys' assistant coaches does nothing for me, either.

In short, I hope (and expect) they stay in a deep, dark blue footballing abyss for a long, long time.

image.thumb.png.96f2707481cba6d0f76eeb87cd4629d8.png

Pretty extraordinary comment from the President.

I still believe Weitering, Walsh, McKay, Curnow is more than enough to build a side around. Plus Cripps can’t possibly be down again.

If they can get some ‘buy in’ which leads to a bit more selflessness from Saad, Williams and Martin they have some quality.

 

 

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I think it's more interesting what's happening at Hawthorn rather than the Blues.

Regardless if you like what he says or not the did deliver at the Blues, whether or not it is successful is another thing. But i don't think the blues are that far away from it if they can get it right.

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9 minutes ago, COVID Dan said:

I think it's more interesting what's happening at Hawthorn rather than the Blues.

Regardless if you like what he says or not the did deliver at the Blues, whether or not it is successful is another thing. But i don't think the blues are that far away from it if they can get it right.

Hawthorn is the 'new' Collingwood

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3 hours ago, BW511 said:

Pretty extraordinary comment from the President.

I still believe Weitering, Walsh, McKay, Curnow is more than enough to build a side around. Plus Cripps can’t possibly be down again.

If they can get some ‘buy in’ which leads to a bit more selflessness from Saad, Williams and Martin they have some quality.

 

 

Depth wins flags. Do Carlton have depth? I don’t think they do. Also, are Martin, Saad and Williams producing any better than depth players? I’d argue 2 of the 3 aren’t, and they are getting super star dollars. If by miracle their depth does start firing, which it needs to, those players will demand to be paid. Right at a time where Walsh will be demanding a million plus. I think Carlton are finished before they started.

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Historically, Carlton's list build strategy of buying every second player on the list gets your foot in the door of finals but falls short of matching it with the big boys.

Will be interesting to see how it plays out over the next couple of years.

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24 minutes ago, KingDingAling said:

Depth wins flags. Do Carlton have depth? I don’t think they do. Also, are Martin, Saad and Williams producing any better than depth players? I’d argue 2 of the 3 aren’t, and they are getting super star dollars. If by miracle their depth does start firing, which it needs to, those players will demand to be paid. Right at a time where Walsh will be demanding a million plus. I think Carlton are finished before they started.

Did Richmond have depth in 2017? I don't think so. System and midfields win flags in the modern era.

If Voss can bring a defensive system that they all buy into and their stars take the next step, they'll do alright.

Edited by A F
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On 9/24/2021 at 12:10 PM, Stiff Arm said:

Can't see Dogga going. He's more important to our future than Cerra. Enormous upside

Unless Jackson wants to go home, its no effing way

He might be the difference in the GF even, certa is overrated.

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  • 5 months later...

Watching "Show Me The Money" and they've covered MFC  doing the "best presentation I've ever seen" (Robbie D'orazio) to Cerra. Not explicitly said, but insinuated a fair few times that they only didn't pick Melbourne because they thought they wouldn't be able to get the deal done. Dees basically said 'don't worry about that' in regards to how they'd get the deal done, which makes me a tiny bit worried about Jackson, but hopefully the agents not thinking Melbourne could get the deal done means Dogga indicated he wanted to stay.

 

Edited by Lord Nev
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26 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Watching "Show Me The Money" and they've covered MFC  doing the "presentation I've ever seen" (Robbie D'orazio) to Cerra. Not explicitly said, but insinuated a fair few times that they only didn't pick Melbourne because they thought they wouldn't be able to get the deal done. Dees basically said 'don't worry about that' in regards to how they'd get the deal done, which makes me a tiny bit worried about Jackson, but hopefully the agents not thinking Melbourne could get the deal done means Dogga indicated he wanted to stay.

 

I doubt it would have anything to do with Jackson. Melbourne has shown they can wheel and deal with picks at the trade table, they probably backed themselves to bundle picks, trade up etc to get a top 10 pick for him.

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2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I doubt it would have anything to do with Jackson. Melbourne has shown they can wheel and deal with picks at the trade table, they probably backed themselves to bundle picks, trade up etc to get a top 10 pick for him.

Yeah thought about the future picks, but the agents are all over who has what draft picks, future picks etc so they would have known what we were capable of doing in that space.

TBH I more took out  of it the positives with the presentation, it was a similar story with Dunstan too, in both of them MFC rocked up with Goody, Yze, Tim Lamb and Richo, definitely showing how much they care.

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On a few occasions the player agent said that Melbourne gave the best presentation they’ve ever seen, amazing to hear. On Jackson, his name was only mentioned because Cerra was keen on Melbourne however his agent said Fremantle would probably want Jackson, and that’s not going to happen. It was Cerra’s agent who brought up Jackson by name, no one else. Let’s not look for something that isn’t there to create drama when it’s not required. 

Edited by Ethan Tremblay
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1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

On a few occasions the player agent said that Melbourne gave the best presentation they’ve ever seen, amazing to hear. On Jackson, his name was only mentioned because Cerra was keen on Melbourne however his agent said Fremantle would probably want Jackson, and that’s not going to happen. It was Cerra’s agent who brought up Jackson by name, no one else. Let’s not look for something that isn’t there to create drama when it’s not required. 

Nowhere did I say anyone said Jackson was going.

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2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Watching "Show Me The Money" and they've covered MFC  doing the "best presentation I've ever seen" (Robbie D'orazio) to Cerra. Not explicitly said, but insinuated a fair few times that they only didn't pick Melbourne because they thought they wouldn't be able to get the deal done. Dees basically said 'don't worry about that' in regards to how they'd get the deal done, which makes me a tiny bit worried about Jackson, but hopefully the agents not thinking Melbourne could get the deal done means Dogga indicated he wanted to stay.

 

 

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

On a few occasions the player agent said that Melbourne gave the best presentation they’ve ever seen, amazing to hear. On Jackson, his name was only mentioned because Cerra was keen on Melbourne however his agent said Fremantle would probably want Jackson, and that’s not going to happen. It was Cerra’s agent who brought up Jackson by name, no one else. Let’s not look for something that isn’t there to create drama when it’s not required. 

Lord Nev, paraphrasing can lead down rabbit holes that aren't there. D'Orazio said after our presentation. "I got off the Zoom call and Adam and I were chatting and he thought I really want to go to Melbourne." 

Later they go back to the Cerra situation and D'Orazio says "The main reason he won't pick Melbourne is they won't be able to facilitate a deal." Connors says "Won't trade Luke Jackson." and he says "No. And to their credit their presentation is the best I've ever seen.....They focused on Cez and said why they think they're good and why they think they'll make you great and went through Petracca and Oliver and how they were just good and suddenly they are  top 3 players of the Comp."

There's nothing obscure there and that's word for word.  

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3 minutes ago, Its Time for Back to Back said:

Lord Nev, paraphrasing can lead down rabbit holes that aren't there. D'Orazio said after our presentation. "I got off the Zoom call and Adam and I were chatting and he thought I really want to go to Melbourne." 

Later they go back to the Cerra situation and D'Orazio says "The main reason he won't pick Melbourne is they won't be able to facilitate a deal." Connors says "Won't trade Luke Jackson." and he says "No. And to their credit their presentation is the best I've ever seen.....They focused on Cez and said why they think they're good and why they think they'll make you great and went through Petracca and Oliver and how they were just good and suddenly they are  top 3 players of the Comp."

There's nothing obscure there and that's word for word.  

Right, so what part of my paraphrasing is incorrect?

 

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2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Dees basically said 'don't worry about that' in regards to how they'd get the deal done, which makes me a tiny bit worried about Jackson, but hopefully the agents not thinking Melbourne could get the deal done means Dogga indicated he wanted to stay.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Nowhere did I say anyone said Jackson was going.

Come on Lord Nev. Are you suggesting your comments aren't saying you were a tiny bit worried we were offering up Jackson for trade? Irrelevant if you didn't say he was going. The actual words from D'Orazio should have left no room for you to be a tiny bit worried about Melbourne offering up Jackson at all. Frankly it's dangerous to suggest that. 

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On a different note, for those who thought our deal for Jessie Hogan was a dud. Freo let Cerra go for pick 6 and a future third rounder. He had no on or off field baggage and is on his way to being an absolute gun. We got pick 6 and 23 for Hogan who was gone in what two years without hardly playing a game. That's not a comment on Hogan who I wish the best, just a comment on the trades.  

On another side note. Scully turned into the pick we used to get Hogan who turned into May Kolodjashnij and Sparrow. Thank you Tom. Where is he now?

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1 minute ago, Its Time for Back to Back said:

Come on Lord Nev. Are you suggesting your comments aren't saying you were a tiny bit worried we were offering up Jackson for trade? Irrelevant if you didn't say he was going. My quotes of the actual words from D'Orazio should have left no room for you to be a tiny bit worried about Melbourne offering up Jackson at all. Frankly it's dangerous to suggest that. 

That's me giving my own thoughts, that's not paraphrasing, and I hardly think a random posters thoughts on a footy board are "dangerous".

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4 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

That's me giving my own thoughts, that's not paraphrasing, and I hardly think a random posters thoughts on a footy board are "dangerous".

Mate you've written a post that conveys that an Agent on the doco said something that creates a worry the Club were prepared to trade Jackson. Whereas the Agent on the doco's express words were that Melbourne were not prepared to trade Jackson.

A lot of people on here won't have access to that show and you are inventing a damaging falsehood you have taken the time to communicate to them. I call that dangerous. For some reason I had rated you as reliable. Won't be doing that anymore. 

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