CHANGES: Rd 18 vs Hawthorn

[Nasher 33,607]

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Unbelievable win, great response. 

Contributors everywhere except for Harmes. 

Harmes just continues to do my head in. This is no exaggeration, I think I saw two effective disposals from everything he did. It was mistake after mistake, fumble after fumble and holding the ball after holding the ball. 

Others deserve an opportunity after a performance like that. 

ANB also questionable at times but his unrewarded running and pressure will keep him in. 

Harmes I just really don't understand. 

He registered 2 free kicks against (Oliver had 4) so at the absolute most there was two HTBs. He had 7 tackles and was second for pressure acts. You saw what you wanted to see.

Harmes is primarily a defensive midfielder. He’s capable of playing games where he really hurts on the offensive, but as long as he’s making it hard for the opposition to win clean ball, he’ll continue to play. 

Sparrow is behind Harmes and there is absolutely no logic behind bringing him in other than people getting sucked in the “shiny and new” factor.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

29 minutes ago, Nasher said:

He registered 2 free kicks against (Oliver had 4) so at the absolute most there was two HTBs. He had 7 tackles and was second for pressure acts. You saw what you wanted to see.

Harmes is primarily a defensive midfielder. He’s capable of playing games where he really hurts on the offensive, but as long as he’s making it hard for the opposition to win clean ball, he’ll continue to play. 

Sparrow is behind Harmes and there is absolutely no logic behind bringing him in other than people getting sucked in the “shiny and new” factor.

Why would you compare him with Oliver who was one of our best, had double the possessions yet close to 80% disposal efficiency? Harmes had 15 touches, only 3 kicks and went at 67% de. 

I'm watching what is in front of me. He had a poor game, even if it was as a defensive mid which I'm not sure it was last night. Perhaps at stoppages and centre bounce. He wasn't running with anyone all game like Viney was. What are you watching is the question? 

7 tackles for a defensive midfielder isn't something to shout out to the world. When you're at the coal face most of the game, you're going to lay tackles. 

I implore you to watch the first half today and look closely at everything Harmes is involved in. Not only was he non effective, there were times where because of a fumble, miss-handball or other, the opposition ran away with the ball and had a look in. It happened for the majority of the game. 

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by JimmyGadson

[jnrmac 20,055]

8 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Not sure if Vanders can tag but I'd think about swapping him for Harmes.

ANB has played one good game in the last five. He's a worry at the moment.

ANB's first half was amongst his worst ever but I thought he played a lot better in the second half.

[Guest]

Chemistry is going to be paramount going into September (which we officially booked our ticket to last night).

Changes for the sake of it, or wanting to blood youngsters is out for mine (unless they are playing like Wayne Carey in the Magoos). 

No changes.

[jnrmac 20,055]

53 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

Yeh, thought last night he could have gone to Wines who I thought was on top of Viney early.  

I don't think Wines damaged us. A bit like Zach Merret. Most of his possessions were under pressure. Thought Boak was far more damaging.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

1 minute ago, jnrmac said:

I don't think Wines damaged us. A bit like Zach Merret. Most of his possessions were under pressure. Thought Boak was far more damaging.

Agree he didn't do much damage but I just thought he was beating Jack early from a contest pov. 

[In Harmes Way 7,741]

Match committee has demonstrated track record in trying to keep team stability or backing in a player who might have been unremarkable in a game..

I remember all the calls for Fritta to be dropped around R2-3, when his set shots for goal accuracy wasn't great. Two weeks later he's kicked a few and is undroppable. Similarly, Weed was given a block of games until the Sydney game showed a change was due.

There will be no changes barring any injuries. Hats off to Gus for playing one eyed, hope there's nothing in that.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

28 minutes ago, Nasher said:

He registered 2 free kicks against (Oliver had 4) so at the absolute most there was two HTBs. He had 7 tackles and was second for pressure acts. You saw what you wanted to see.

Harmes is primarily a defensive midfielder. He’s capable of playing games where he really hurts on the offensive, but as long as he’s making it hard for the opposition to win clean ball, he’ll continue to play. 

Sparrow is behind Harmes and there is absolutely no logic behind bringing him in other than people getting sucked in the “shiny and new” factor.

He also had 5 clangers and 2 turnovers. Pretty high given he only had 3 kicks.

I would consider Sparrow (pending the Casey game) because he has a better burst than Harmes, isn't as indecisive and because Goody may possibly consider Viney for that tagging role now.

I'm not writing off Harmes at all, but it was noticeable last night again that our play seems more clunky when he's involved. No point being a 'defensive midfielder' if you're costing us as much (or more) the other way.

[Swooper1987 3,322]

No change for now but at some point in the next few weeks Melksham will be back.  He's not a Demonland favourite but he can deliver a great ball inside 50 better than just about anyone else in the side.  That'll be important in September.  ANB won't be getting dropped either. 

[whatwhat say what 22,700]

no change unless there's an unreported or emerging injury concern

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,693]

11 hours ago, FarNorthernD said:

Salem is back in town!

Didn't think he'd ever left

15 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

Chemistry is going to be paramount going into September (which we officially booked our ticket to last night).

Changes for the sake of it, or wanting to blood youngsters is out for mine (unless they are playing like Wayne Carey in the Magoos). 

No changes.

I think this is our best team. However, at some stage we might want to get more games into some fringe players such as Sparrow, Melksham, Jones and even Bowey so they are on the pace should we need them in September. However, I don't think the next game is the right time to do so.

[The Reverend 1,736]

Blessed be the 'roll' players, for their selflessness shall be rewarded with an abundance of beautiful baguettes.

GO DEES!

[old55 23,407]

2 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

He makes the easy look difficult and the difficult look easy at times. But last night he was making everything look difficult, I wish he'd just nail the basics. It's all he needs to do as that third-fourth string midfielder. 

He needs to play more like Jordan and less like Petracca. Rates himself a bit too much Harmesy.

The torp last week with a minute to go is one of many examples. Just unnecessary and low percentage at that time of the game and too much of a 'look at me I'm like Toby Green' feel about him

Agree with this.

[titan_uranus 24,977]

1 hour ago, Lord Nev said:

He also had 5 clangers and 2 turnovers. Pretty high given he only had 3 kicks.

I would consider Sparrow (pending the Casey game) because he has a better burst than Harmes, isn't as indecisive and because Goody may possibly consider Viney for that tagging role now.

I'm not writing off Harmes at all, but it was noticeable last night again that our play seems more clunky when he's involved. No point being a 'defensive midfielder' if you're costing us as much (or more) the other way.

Yep.

Both Viney and Harmes struggled offensively, but IMO Viney was superior defensively.

Do we need both to be defensive? If not, then Harmes' position is in jeopardy to be replaced with someone else who offers something difference, given Harmes' mistakes (e.g. Sparrow/Melksham/Jones).

I'm not necessarily in favour of a change but if we are going to make a change Harmes is the player whose role IMO can be switched around.

[drdrake 3,162]

I think Melksham for Harmes, can play the same role but with a better skill set.  Agree on comments about Bowey, unless we rest or one of Rivers/Hunt/Salem is injured we isn't getting a run in our backline.  I think Smith is the back up defender for Hibberd/Petty/May/Lever.

[Dannyz 2,697]

Depending on the timing of wife's birth, Lever could miss this week

[Damo 3,344]

9 minutes ago, Dannyz said:

Depending on the timing of wife's birth, Lever could miss this week

Marrying young these days.

[58er 6,397]

2 hours ago, Swooper1987 said:

No change for now but at some point in the next few weeks Melksham will be back.  He's not a Demonland favourite but he can deliver a great ball inside 50 better than just about anyone else in the side.  That'll be important in September.  ANB won't be getting dropped either. 

Is that an official line you have for the selectors or just your opinion Swooper?

And does  it involve Jake earning his spot or being  " gifted" because he has according to you an unbelievable skill at passing the ball even though he only gets it generally under double digit times per game?

[58er 6,397]

4 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Yeh, thought last night he could have gone to Wines who I thought was on top of Viney early. 

Being picky I know and it probably makes me sound salty etc but Harmes annoys me more than most. 

He makes the easy look difficult and the difficult look easy at times. But last night he was making everything look difficult, I wish he'd just nail the basics. It's all he needs to do as that third-fourth string midfielder. 

He needs to play more like Jordan and less like Petracca. Rates himself a bit too much Harmesy.

The torp last week with a minute to go is one of many examples. Just unnecessary and low percentage at that time of the game and too much of a 'look at me I'm like Toby Green' feel about him

End rant. 

Go dees, great win. We're the real deal this year and I feel like tis win will get us rolling again. 

Also, have we had a luckier year regarding injuries?! My God. 

Touch wood no maybe last year was good also but the BURGO factor still has 9 or 10 Matches to run!

[manny100 1,501]

No change Vs Hawks

[Jaded No More 68,867]

13 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Not sure if Vanders can tag but I'd think about swapping him for Harmes.

ANB has played one good game in the last five. He's a worry at the moment.

Vanders is too slow and his ball use is as bad as Harmes. He just does not bring in anything we need.

Bowey may get a run at some point, but really now is not the time to mess with anything. 7 weeks until finals. The more settled we can be, the better. 

 

And besides, form suggests we drop this game if we take it too lightly. Tinkering and resting players is not the right message. Hawks may not be setting the world on fire, but neither were Pies or Adelaide when they beat us. Do not take any game lightly. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by Jaded

[binman 42,686]

5 hours ago, Nasher said:

Sparrow is behind Harmes and there is absolutely no logic behind bringing him in other than people getting sucked in the “shiny and new” factor.

For mine, i'd have Sparrow in ahead of Harmes.

And once jones is fit, i'd have him in ahead of both based on his game the weekend before last.

Harmes was average last night. To be fair he had an improved second half but he made some potentially costly errors in the first half. And that makes three average games in a row

I take your point about his defensive work, but he often undoes that work with poor decision making.

And a big knock i have on him in terms of his decision making is that he takes too many low percentage options, eg taking on the tackler on when the percentage play is to give it off or attempting marginal handballs or kicks outside his skill range.

And it is poor decisions that can really hurt in finals.

He is at his best when he is given a specific job on a gun opposition mid, who can take him to the ball. His role should be a negator, not a creator. And when he does that job well, his possessions become more valuable. 

Viney was the perfect player to go to Wines, but it left Harmes without an obvious tagging role.   

All that said goody has placed a huge value on consistency of selection and rewarding players, so Harmes is unlikely to be dropped. Which is fine by me. I have a lot of respect for that approach. 

Give Harmes a job on O'Meara and free up Viney a bit. Sparrow will remain as a sub, unless they want him to get some game time, as goody no doubt wants to reinforce he is an important part of the team.

By the by,  can Sparrow play for casey this weekend?

Edited July 9, 2021 by binman

[Fat Tony 5,220]

29 minutes ago, binman said:

 

By the by,  can Sparrow play for casey this weekend?

I assume he will play. He played VFL after being sub vs the Crows.

[Demon17 5,187]

15 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Now's probably not the time for it but if anyone's in the gun IMO it's Harmes.

he's our proven lockdown tagger. He stays.  Just stop him trying to be creative beyond his ability.

In effect helped win the doggies game(along with many others as part of a system) and will do so again this year.

[loges 6,767]

8 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

Unbelievable win, great response. 

Contributors everywhere except for Harmes. 

Harmes just continues to do my head in. This is no exaggeration, I think I saw two effective disposals from everything he did. It was mistake after mistake, fumble after fumble and holding the ball after holding the ball. 

Others deserve an opportunity after a performance like that. 

ANB also questionable at times but his unrewarded running and pressure will keep him in. 

Harmes I just really don't understand. 

Thought Harmes game was really weird. Was involved in many contests, was getting hands on the ball but somehow it kept ending up with the opposition.