Improving from Within

[Kent 2,909]

On 9/25/2020 at 9:36 PM, A F said:

Our ball use is directly impacted, IMV, by our stoppage set ups. They don't give our mids separation and instead make us predictable, leading too often, to rushed ball use that doesn't suit anyone.

so what is the coach doing about it ?

its been the same for years

[Lil_red_fire_engine 11,176]

I cant see the net effect of our end of year 22 being anything but improvement next year. Jones and Jetta are the older players in decline who finished outside the side. Hibberd and Melksham (who was poor) are the only players likely to have reduced output and impact due to age. Harmes and TMac who had shockers will either not be there or if they make it back in will be through signficantly improved output. You would expect the core elite of Trac, May, Viney, Oliver, Langdon, Gawn to sustain if they have strong preseasons. Another year of development into Petty, Jordon, Sparrow, LJ, Pickett, Rivers will improve the 16-24 bracket quality. This is before trade and draft trying to improve areas of deficiency. The big questions for me will be what type of 2021 consistent impact can Brayshaw, Lever and Weideman have.

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

Just shared this article in another thread: https://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/footys-best-and-worst-attacking-kicks-why-melbourne-mids-should-be-embarrassed/news-story/48a26705d7c39f296539f4e663d45c07

I listened to Jennings on 'Whately' a lot this year and his insight as an opposition analyst and gameplan strategist is fascinating.

To my eyes at least, last years exodus of coaches smells more than some would like to admit. It's clear to me that Goodwin got his way in the end and the club decided to move a handful of those who perhaps had differing views to the way we should be playing. I thought it was obvious in the way that Jennings spoke about Goodwin this year. 

Whilst list, positional changes and gameplan need clear addressing over this off-season, so does our group of assistant coaches. 

Those speaking about improvement within are absolutely right. But you need high quality coaches in the right positions to continue to develop the list you have as well as hold groups of players to a high level of accountability. For example, I think we miss Macca more than some may think. The way that he would keep our midfielders accountable, the respect he commanded.The little things. It spills out onto the training track, keeps everyone on high alert and helps maintain high standards and good habits. 

This is one of my major concerns when it comes to Goody. How difficult is he to work under? This off-season is just as important to bring high quality assistants in and around Goodwin to really pick-up the slack. 

A lot to unpack and address really. Hopefully the board really get to work on this.

 

[binman 42,940]

Great post JG.

I listened to Jennings a few times in the ladt part of the year. I found him really engaging and interesting. Good ability to explain things simply.

He made a really interesting comment about us after  I think the freo loss. Basically that our current game plan is now very defensive (implying, at least that was my sense  too defensive). and default play is down tbe line and slow movement. 

The model  players to be clear about their role and play it to the letter. Not much scope for individual creatvity and flair and natural football. Ironic then for goody to criticize his players of boring.

To be fair to goody his game plan reflects where the game is at, though there is a question if we have the required skill level and players for thst model (and my answer is no).

Leaving the game plan aside though  i share your concerns about how easy he is to work with. I'd add i wonder how he goes managing syers who perhaps are a bit different or don't have total buy in to his approach (which every team at every club had).

I know he us big on relationships and I've read on here that his players love him. But - and I'll hasten to add that I've never met him so perhaps this is unfair - my feeling is that he may not have tbe highest EQ and may not manage conflict or dissenting views very well.

He has always struck me as a my way or the highway sort of person. Which is  an outdated 1980s style management not suited to such a big group of people who make an AFL football club in 2020.

In his public speaking he struggles to relay a strong message and connect. Whilst pressers etc are a different forum than communicating to his players, i do wonder how effective his messaging is to his players.

On this last point many pundits and indeed dl posters have noted that players have often looked confused about their roles. And then you get the strange messaging around his scatter shot approach to selections.

I may be wrong, but if not if goody is as committed to learning and personal growth as he says he us then I hope he addresses this opportunity for improvement.

 

[george_on_the_outer 7,590]

In 2020 we had 4 players in Langdon, Tomlinson, Pickett and Jackson come into what was essentially a fully fit side for the year.

That simply tells us that ( injuries aside) the 2018/9 sides had too many ordinary, fringe, below par players being selected.  That two 18 year olds could walk into the side, no matter how talented they are and then hold their spots was more damning.

If we want improvement in 2021, we are not addressing the fundamental problem, by seeking improvement from the likes of Oliver, Trac, May, Gawn etc.  They are already good with only marginal improvement possible.  Even if it happens it won't help the team as much as the improvement required across the board. 

We simply have to stop being forced to select that group of players who have been around 4,5,6 and longer years, and are still being dropped from the side due to poor performances. ( There are a couple of others who weren't being dropped as well).

To put it simply we need talent where currently there is little. And we need it now!  There is no point waiting.  Gawn is 28. Viney 26 Petracca 24 Lever 24.  How many more years are we going to wait, and risking that talented group leaving for greener pastures?

The draft this year will be unlikely to produce anything to solve our problems due to NGA picks and what is looking like a raft of compensation picks following FA. 

This is the year we need to trade heavily to bring in players who can kick and have the talent to stay in the side all year long, replacing those fringe players we currently see week in and week out.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

Good post. We have so much room for growth with the current list.

I think Petracca is doing what he needs to. If he puts this season on repeat for the next 5 years, he'll be an all-time great. Yes, It'd be great if he improved but we can't be relying on an elite player to get better to find our growth.

I agree with the other four summaries but would add that the players you have mentioned are all good players (or better). Improving the guys underneath that tier of players is important to our growth as a team.

The quality of that 8-10 players just in and out of the side will heavily influence our success.

[spirit of norm smith 16,451]

3 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Improvements from within. ABSOLUTELY. 

Happens at every club so the bar keeps rising. 
 

Our contested footy is our main go. But our skills generally let us down. 

Every player can get better from Trac down to Jordan.  As a club though there are crucial areas to get it right. 
 

INTENSITY- bring it every week 

Consistency- 100% for 4 quarters

Discipline  - on and off the field

STRATEGY (pay attention Simon) With and without the footy - and perhaps a plan B

Footy IQ 

Skills - transition of the footy by foot 

Decision making (Clarry - you’re a star but your attendance in this class is needed)
 

Effective entries inside 50 to create goals 

Pace - run run run  (we saw what Langdon brought in 2020) 

Tackling - effective tackling and pressure 

Physical strength and conditioning - though Burgo did a great job in 2020.

Goal kicking accuracy (yes Bailey Fritsch - I’m looking at you)
 

that’s a good dozen things to start to work on !!!! 

Improvement may also be from less travel and actually a home game or two !!! 

[rjay 24,923]

13 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

To put it simply we need talent where currently there is little. And we need it now!  There is no point waiting.  Gawn is 28. Viney 26 Petracca 24 Lever 24.  How many more years are we going to wait, and risking that talented group leaving for greener pastures?

Agree 'George', the time is now.

Simply making finals in 2021 is not enough.

Given a fit list the bar needs to be a GF.

That means we have to be aggressive and on the mark this trade period....

Edited September 27, 2020 by rjay

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

If Jackson and Weid have good years so will the team. We have a solid backline in Salem, May, Lever, Rivers, Tomlinson and Hibberd we have a very good core midfield with Langdon, Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Viney and Brayshaw our weakness is the forward line. Fritsch needs to kick straight thats an understatement Pickett will improve and if we could trade for Brown that will help out at least one of them. Even give a second chance to Matera he's a capable goal kicker and will help out Pickett. 

We are not far off from being a top 8 side just a wingman, full forward and forward pocket short.

[Demon17 5,188]

On 9/27/2020 at 11:27 AM, binman said:

Great post JG.

I listened to Jennings a few times in the ladt part of the year. I found him really engaging and interesting. Good ability to explain things simply.

He made a really interesting comment about us after  I think the freo loss. Basically that our current game plan is now very defensive (implying, at least that was my sense  too defensive). and default play is down tbe line and slow movement. 

The model  players to be clear about their role and play it to the letter. Not much scope for individual creatvity and flair and natural football. Ironic then for goody to criticize his players of boring.

To be fair to goody his game plan reflects where the game is at, though there is a question if we have the required skill level and players for thst model (and my answer is no).

Leaving the game plan aside though  i share your concerns about how easy he is to work with. I'd add i wonder how he goes managing syers who perhaps are a bit different or don't have total buy in to his approach (which every team at every club had).

I know he us big on relationships and I've read on here that his players love him. But - and I'll hasten to add that I've never met him so perhaps this is unfair - my feeling is that he may not have tbe highest EQ and may not manage conflict or dissenting views very well.

He has always struck me as a my way or the highway sort of person. Which is  an outdated 1980s style management not suited to such a big group of people who make an AFL football club in 2020.

In his public speaking he struggles to relay a strong message and connect. Whilst pressers etc are a different forum than communicating to his players, i do wonder how effective his messaging is to his players.

On this last point many pundits and indeed dl posters have noted that players have often looked confused about their roles. And then you get the strange messaging around his scatter shot approach to selections.

I may be wrong, but if not if goody is as committed to learning and personal growth as he says he us then I hope he addresses this opportunity for improvement.

 

Agree on the issues and I wonder would any decent coaches actually want to come and work under Goodwin now, given the likes of McCartney and jennings have moved on, and rawlings as well.

I know I wouldn't. It could be a career killer and may not help assistants with their ow development.?

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,754]

I am always amazed at how many players across the competition cannot kick half-decently on their non-preferred. That limits their ability because they often need to turn "the wrong way" to get into a position to kick. To his credit, Viney improved significantly in this area in 2020.

However, watching Baker turn himself into knots trying to get onto his right foot reinforces the need for players like him to practise, practise, practise in the off season. Hopefully that left foot long-distance goal will give him some confidence and help him improve.   

[DeeZee 7,393]

We really need to improve our skill level as well, especially under pressure.

Horrific  turnovers cost us games this year, and at times it looked like we were picking out opposition players and kicking directly to them.

[Ollie fan 3,402]

I agree so much with AF about Clarrie. The best true midfielder we’ve had since Barassi.

To improve: RE-SIGN Burgo for 5 years!!! Then : Get a decent midfield coach - with the players we have, we should dominate clearances, but their systems of working together don’t really exist. 

Try to lift the quality of our 15-25 ranked players.

Teach the players two forgotten arts: the smother and the shepherd.

 

 

[Gunna’s 2,104]

40 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

Teach the players two forgotten arts: the smother and the shepherd

So true. How many times this year did a player stand there and watch his teammates come under pressure and did nothing to help?

Need to play more as a team in 2021. 

[CHF 2,738]

On 9/25/2020 at 8:18 AM, Fat Tony said:

I know there is always a lot of talk about trades and improving the list at this time of year. But I believe that the path to our next premiership can be from internal improvement by a small number of our key players. The coaching, the list construction and our depth is not the major issue. While I think a better winger and forwards will improve our side at the margin, really what we need is our best young players to take the next step.

 

I think that to improve in comparison to the other teams it will always be a combination of upgrading the list and also internal improvement. 

Last year we brought in Langdon and Tomlinson at the trade table and Pickett, Jackson and Rivers via the draft and all 5, even the first year players, I believe improved the team. Individual player improvement from 2019 showed with Petracca and May having top years, Lever, Hibberd and Weideman improving on last years performance and Gawn maintaining his usual high standards. Some went backwards due to age and/or injuries. Players like Jones and Jetta I do not believe will be any better next year and both dropped off in form and performance this season. T Mac followed on from last season with a very poor season and I do not see much improvement next year. 

I was encouraged by the performance of Baker in the last few games as I was with Hunt.

These are the players I see as having the capacity to improve.

Oliver - with Petracca stepping up his quality this season I think that it may free up Oliver to be a bit more creative out of the stoppages, It is going to be difficult for opposition teams to shut down both.

Viney - At the moment he just gets caught too often with the ball. not sure you can train 'vision' into a player but if that is not possible he needs move the ball on quickly and that means support.

Brayshaw - To me his lack of top speed is mitigated by the way he finds position and seems to have time and space to use the ball. He needs to be fit and confident.

Harmes - get him back to a run with role and set him free.

Weideman - Honestly, I have him in the 'not sure' basket. He could be better than he was this season but I am not sure if he is going to improve through a maturing body, a better structured and supporting forward set up or getting a good dose of confidence. Maybe all three.

Fristch -  he looks to have all the tools but I am not sure that the tools are sharp enough. Another pre-season, a lot of kicking practice and someone to tel him about tackling.

Young players like Jackson, Rivers, Sparrow and Pickett will be better after another per-season and some coaching.

Another area of improvement is in the overall team performance. I believe that we were fitter this year and with another year of well structured training I think we can have even better fitness levels next year. With that should come some improved decision making deeper into games. 

The last area I can see internal improvement is in the coaching and tactical areas. We need to get our structures right at stoppages and center bounces and we need a good, simple effective forward structure with some built in game day restructures (plan B, C, D.....etc) as required.

Not all of the players listed above will improve and some will go backwards. 

 

 

[spirit of norm smith 16,451]

1 hour ago, Ollie fan said:

Teach the players two forgotten arts: the smother and the shepherd.

 

 

Agree. A dying art. Tigers are the master of smothering the footy as well as blocks or shepherds to support the runners.  Even if you don’t have the footy, you can still have an impact. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,451]

On 9/27/2020 at 8:14 AM, spirit of norm smith said:

Improvements from within. ABSOLUTELY. 

Happens at every club so the bar keeps rising. 
 

Our contested footy is our main go. But our skills generally let us down. 

Every player can get better from Trac down to Jordan.  As a club though there are crucial areas to get it right. 
 

INTENSITY- bring it every week 

Consistency- 100% for 4 quarters

Discipline  - on and off the field

STRATEGY (pay attention Simon) With and without the footy - and perhaps a plan B

Footy IQ 

Skills - transition of the footy by foot 

Decision making (Clarry - you’re a star but your attendance in this class is needed)
 

Effective entries inside 50 to create goals 

Pace - run run run  (we saw what Langdon brought in 2020) 

Tackling - effective tackling and pressure 

Physical strength and conditioning - though Burgo did a great job in 2020.

Goal kicking accuracy (yes Bailey Fritsch - I’m looking at you)
 

that’s a good dozen things to start to work on !!!! 

Yes I had to act in 

Learn to block, shepherd, knock on and smother the footy 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,824]

I agree with the trust of this thread and though I don't have any great tactical insights I can offer, my loose thoughts are thus:

I actually don't think we are that far off being a top side.  We were totally compeditive against a number of top sides this season, including Richmond, Brisbane, Geelong.  What I think we lacked was belief and as Goodwin articulated a ruthless attitude to grab games  and sides by the scruff of the neck and put the foot down.  We were probably rightly criticised for our chaotic ball movement at times earlier in the season, but then I think we somewhat overcorrected and didn't take the game on enough in the end and prevented ourselves from blowing games wide open with our ability to attack.

Another thing I think that keeps killing us as a side is poor starts to the season.  Puts us behind the eight ball making finals each and every year.  Instead of solidifying our spot in the eight through the middle of the season and putting our selves into a position to finish top 4 come the end of the year, we are always scrapping just to get into or near the eight somewhere through the middle of the season, leaving ourselves no tolerance for dropping the odd game to a middle/lower ranked side at the back end to make finals and/or alway throwing the kitchen sink at the last 6 weeks and carrying too many injured players into finals.  Just once I'd like to see us win the first 5 or so games of the season and see what a difference it makes.  So sick of hearing this accepting mediocrity crap about round one being no or less important than any other after we have lost it.  Loose any more than one or two games in the first five and it's season over for any chance at genuine success.

Asides from that, I'd really like to see our mature guys in their prime like Harmes, Brayshaw, Fritsch, Weid, Lever, Spargo, ANB and Salem bite the bullet and go fully ballistic next season like Trac, May and Gawn have in recient seasons.  All the aforementioned have too much talent to put out the kind of seasons they did in 2020 (mainly think of Harmes and Brayshaw here) or have an extra level they can go to on a consistent basis.  Weid needs to clunck more big marks, Fritsch to kick strait from set shots, Lever have the confidence to mark it more often when he has the opportunity than punch it and Salem to really take the game on more than play safe all the time.  Guys like ANB and Spargo just need to be more consistently at their best, but I think the team lifting around them would help their cause a fair bit too.

All going well, we should also get some good 'natural development' out of our youngest bunch of players like Jacko, Kosie, Rivers and Sparrow with the right kind of mentoring and standards being set around them.  Having established their personal performance at an elite level, it's time for guys like Trac and Clarry to lead the team, by better reading the flow of the game and changing of attacking or defensive setup around the ball in real time.  I do think this is an area where Harmes needs to be used to far greater effect.  The games we lost the handle on this year were those when our mostly attacking midfeild got badly beaten up for big periods like against Port, Brisbane, Bulldogs and to some extent Freo and Sydney.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[dpositive 1,665]

On 9/27/2020 at 8:14 AM, spirit of norm smith said:

Improvements from within. ABSOLUTELY. 

Happens at every club so the bar keeps rising. 
 

Our contested footy is our main go. But our skills generally let us down. 

Every player can get better from Trac down to Jordan.  As a club though there are crucial areas to get it right. 
 

INTENSITY- bring it every week 

Consistency- 100% for 4 quarters

Discipline  - on and off the field

STRATEGY (pay attention Simon) With and without the footy - and perhaps a plan B

Footy IQ 

Skills - transition of the footy by foot 

Decision making (Clarry - you’re a star but your attendance in this class is needed)
 

Effective entries inside 50 to create goals 

Pace - run run run  (we saw what Langdon brought in 2020) 

Tackling - effective tackling and pressure 

Physical strength and conditioning - though Burgo did a great job in 2020.

Goal kicking accuracy (yes Bailey Fritsch - I’m looking at you)
 

that’s a good dozen things to start to work on !!!! 

I'd like to add shepherding. This creates time and space and allows better decisions and delivery.

[dpositive 1,665]

8 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

If Jackson and Weid have good years so will the team. We have a solid backline in Salem, May, Lever, Rivers, Tomlinson and Hibberd we have a very good core midfield with Langdon, Petracca, Oliver, Gawn, Viney and Brayshaw our weakness is the forward line. Fritsch needs to kick straight thats an understatement Pickett will improve and if we could trade for Brown that will help out at least one of them. Even give a second chance to Matera he's a capable goal kicker and will help out Pickett. 

We are not far off from being a top 8 side just a wingman, full forward and forward pocket short.

Fritsch always seems to be in or lead to the wrong pocket.From the right field position for a left foot kick he seems more accurate.

[Adam The God 30,249]

Those discussing smothers and shepherds, @Axis of Bob wrote an excellent post in the Jack Viney thread about the blocking that he witnessed when going back over the tapes. I reckon our blocking, shepherding etc is actually okay, we don't notice it, but it's there. It could be better, I'm sure.

But how do we maximise our clearance work with the elite clearance mids we have? We went away from setting up too aggressively at centre stoppages after the Richmond game. I think we need to go back to being super aggressive with these set ups and we need to be aggressive for longer, show better forward craft and better ball use out of the contest.

With another pre season under the belts of our elite core, I think should revert to the aggressive stoppage set ups, but that the press should remain the three wall set up that we played for much of the season, rather than the 2017-2018 18 man press that inevitably broke down and leaked goals too easily out the back.

[layzie 33,796]

I don't really know how to say this or what the answer is given it's astounding in the first place, but we need our players to know each other on field a lot better and know their games. The majority of this list has been together 4 years now and the number of times we lack cohesion and handball to a guy flat footed, burn an open man making a run through the middle and kick short to the flank and either all fly or all stay down in the forward line...

It literally looks like a team playing together for the first time or one that has had massive list changes and hasn't gelled yet. A lot on here have said lately that our guys tend to play individually at times and not as a team and it's right, how often do we need to see footage of how MFC players rushed their kick without knowing where teammates were. You need to know who the guys are around you and aspects of their game but right now it seems like they don't really pay much attention to that. 

Hearing this stuff about how Freo spent the break really honing in on their strategy and how they can drill it in, almost like they were studying for an exam. Then you hear T-Mac saying how we were really just doing the odd Zoom meeting to check in, and see how guys were etc. It says a lot and they need to solve it.

Edited September 29, 2020 by layzie

[sue 9,104]

12 hours ago, dpositive said:

I'd like to add shepherding. This creates time and space and allows better decisions and delivery.

In almost every game I find myself shouting 'shepherd FCS!!'.  But I suspect the reason it happens far less than it did, and not just at MFC is that players are instead racing to a position to provide a receive option.  Need to be smarter about when it would be a bad option to do that and instead shepherd.

[Grr-owl 1,220]

On 9/25/2020 at 2:58 PM, A F said:

Polec and Saad would fix this problem. Add a bit more pace in our forwardline and another marking target and I think things can turn quickly, provided we get the stoppage set ups right. Looking forward to seeing who we bring in to coach the midfield.

Jordan Lewis, please.

[Adam The God 30,249]

10 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:

Jordan Lewis, please.

Interesting. My sense is that Lewis' handle on the game, at least from an examination perspective is not that great. This is based on listening to his FOX commentary this year.