On 8/30/2020 at 2:54 PM, Half forward flank said:

Sam Newman became a laughing stock for being nursed to 300 and he was a better player than Jones. We are fighting for relevance and a finals birth. Games on merit. As for 2021, you jest, Mr Manager?

Ahhh, where it all began. 

16 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

The sad thing is apart from the silly kick across goal I actually thought he was decent against the Saints.

And had been pretty decent for most of the year especially when playing a mix of wing/forward.

And he put the team first by pulling out of the game against the Dogs.

The club has really failed him by not playing this week on a short break and getting him right for the Freo game.

Now he's likely injured and probably done. Or might hobble out for a farewell game infront of no one in round 18. Nathan you have failed us but we have also failed you. That's what this club does.

Most of this I agree with. However, I can't agree with the expression, "Nathan you have failed us". Irrespective of how they play, I don't believe in the idea that any player can fail us on the ground. (I'm not sure, by the way, whether the "us" you refer to means the supporters or the club itself...but that doesn't change my point.)

I do, however, believe players can fail us (club and supporters) if they do not behave appropriately in their off-field life. I've never seen or heard of Jones doing anything off field that has been detrimental to the club.

2 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

Nathan earlier this year said something like, when he's playing he brings more to the team than any other player.

 

Did he actually say that? Wow.

6 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

Did he actually say that? Wow.

Yes

20 hours ago, Elegt said:

Jones is not integral to our team. We are not in 2014 anymore 

While I totally disagree with your silly reference to 2014, I will concede he is more than likely done for the year and after a reasonable game against the Saints he should never have been put out there 4 days later. Consequently the poor game he played was enough to see the coaching staff can't and or won't protect him enough to make sure he only plays on his terms. Which is probably fair enough. Mind you after the game in the Alice to ask a team to perform as well 4 days later was a tough ask and the whole team was flat.

The thing that stood out to me was how Langdon needed help out there and really Jones position would have been much better served by a young, fit kid who can run all day.

Anyway, was well worth the discussion and bringing Jones to the fore as he reached the end and hopefully we all get a chance to farewell him at a Demons game at the MCG. i'll be there Jonesy.

 

I read that he is thinking of playing on, thoughts.....

Season has been hampered by injury, if he can resolve those injury woes before pre-season (he started last pre-season in rehab from memory).

Then yes. 

No. He has recurring soft tissue injuries which is the first sign. The second sign is surely he can see when has been in that the game has started to pass him. Thirdly surely he understand he will be holding back the development of a younger player. In a year where list sizes will be tight it seems like a very self centred decision. This was his extra year, we owe him nothing more than that. 

 

Absolutely not. He’s cooked.

If he is on the list I hope its the base rate with games incentives. Unfortunately he needs to know he would be purely depth. Is that any way to limp over the line to 300? And I don't doubt that milestone plus Neita's 306 would be in the back of his mind

Should list sizes shrink (which is not a given) i hope he makes the decision for us and retires. Forcing him out would once again be terrible for the club

Excellent career, an all time favourite, but its time to go.

It's a similar call Hawthorn had to make. Interestingly, Hawthorn have gone downhill since Mitchell, Hodge and Lewis were flicked. However, good and loyal as Jones has been, the writing is large, the wall even larger. It would be more dignified if he said ta ta

I prefer he transitions into an off field role, but with the squeeze on footy department spending that appears unlikely.

I would leave the call up to him, if list sizes remain the same. If list sizes are going to be cut, then sadly I think he needs to retire. 

The problem is that the BT only wants to play him across wing & defence where his lack of pace catches him out.

He should play fwd.

You cant be ruthless and sentimental at the same time. 

I've always loved Jonesy, but based on his output this year he should be hanging the boots up. I care far more about developing our younger players than I do about Jonesy reaching a personal milestone. 

I hope we can find a way to have him around the club as a member of the FD somehow ... 

He is still better than half our list, as states above have him as a playing coach.

Nip this one in the bud quickly. Thanks champ, time to go. Its a bit late in the day to be saying you have worked out ways to help the team. It is all about $$$.

Players watch how team mates are treated by clubs and when you expect loyalty, sometimes you have to go a bit extra to reward it. Jones knocked back many offers, to stay with us in the sh-t times, to his own detriment. He has to be treated with respect for that.

 I think Jones is probably done, but if he gets the all clear from the medicos to play again, then he should be given the opportunity if his form warrants, to go around again. 

If he doesn't deserve a game, he doesn't get one and if he is happy to mentor young players at Casey, then that is to our advantage. He can always pull the pin during the year and be an assistant coach, with his payment not in the soft cap, but the salary cap and I would imagine he would not get a lot to play on. That is what the Hawks are doing with Burgoyne.

I don't accept that he will stop a younger player being on the list, as worth more than the respect he should be given and we can always uplift a rookie. It should be noted that our bottom couple of players generally don't have long careers.

All that being said, I would imagine the FD would have a long chat with him, but if the medicos and Burgo say go for it and he wants to do the work, without any playing guarantee, we owe it to him.

You can be ruthless and sentimental, it just depends on defining building culture, as something that needs a ruthless approach, over perhaps a logical approach. It could be classified as ruthless in denying another player a place on the list, in order to send off a champion of the club and the AFL, in the right manner and with respect. That is ruthless list management in a reverse sense.

Players don't want their team mates treated like sh-t, while we demand loyalty from them. They need to see that we are a strong club, that is building a strong culture, based around everyone being in it together.

I promise you all, we won't lose a flag by not putting player number 150 on our list. Who knows, Jones could still play some reasonable footy and maybe even kick a match winning goal.

46 minutes ago, cantstandyasam said:

I read that he is thinking of playing on, thoughts.....

No too old, slow and injury prone! Full credit to him but time to hang up the boots

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Players watch how team mates are treated by clubs and when you expect loyalty, sometimes you have to go a bit extra to reward it. Jones knocked back many offers, to stay with us in the sh-t times, to his own detriment. He has to be treated with respect for that.

 I think Jones is probably done, but if he gets the all clear from the medicos to play again, then he should be given the opportunity if his form warrants, to go around again. 

If he doesn't deserve a game, he doesn't get one and if he is happy to mentor young players at Casey, then that is to our advantage. He can always pull the pin during the year and be an assistant coach, with his payment not in the soft cap, but the salary cap and I would imagine he would not get a lot to play on. That is what the Hawks are doing with Burgoyne.

I don't accept that he will stop a younger player being on the list, as worth more than the respect he should be given and we can always uplift a rookie. It should be noted that our bottom couple of players generally don't have long careers.

All that being said, I would imagine the FD would have a long chat with him, but if the medicos and Burgo say go for it and he wants to do the work, without any playing guarantee, we owe it to him.

You can be ruthless and sentimental, it just depends on defining building culture, as something that needs a ruthless approach, over perhaps a logical approach. It could be classified as ruthless in denying another player a place on the list, in order to send off a champion of the club and the AFL, in the right manner and with respect. That is ruthless list management in a reverse sense.

Players don't want their team mates treated like sh-t, while we demand loyalty from them. They need to see that we are a strong club, that is building a strong culture, based around everyone being in it together.

I promise you all, we won't lose a flag by not putting player number 150 on our list. Who knows, Jones could still play some reasonable footy and maybe even kick a match winning goal.

Loyalty in all forms of modern life extends to the end of your contract term. Then it is time to negotiate another based on what you offer to the enterprise. On balance I dont think he deserves another contract based on the performances of his last one.

If he plays on, I hope the decision is made on matters other than giving him a chance to play 300 games.

Personally, I'm ambivalent. I doubt he would play many games in 2021 but I also respect the comments from Redleg above. That is, we need to reward him for sticking fat during the bad times. However, if the club believes that's what this year was about, then have we already done enough? I'm not sure. 

No and i hope we dont give him a charity gig on the coaching staff.

 

Been a great servant for the club but absolutely shouldn’t go on. 

I think he is probably done, but I'd still have him at the club ahead of any Bedford, Kolodjashnij, Jordon, Nietschke, Chandler, Wagner x2 and Dunkley and probably half a dozen others as well.

It really depends on whether the club is collectively going to put its big boy pants on and make some hard decisions at year end. If we prune a lot of dead wood on the list, then I don't have an issue with Jones getting one more year to support what would be a lot of new players. If we only make a few changes, then the need for an experienced mentor-type is significantly reduced.

3 minutes ago, poita said:

I think he is probably done, but I'd still have him at the club ahead of any Bedford, Kolodjashnij, Jordon, Nietschke, Chandler, Wagner x2 and Dunkley and probably half a dozen others as well.

Three of those players haven't even played. ????

A question: How many former captains of this club have we ever held onto for too long?

(can think of several we "let go" too early...).