Rising Stars vs the Dees

[Demonland 70,903]

Ever wondered how Rookie players have fared against the Demons? Well wonder no more ...

[jnrmac 20,001]

We all knew this intuitively but interesting to see it in writing.

Well done.

Another embarrassing thing we lead in.

[Lord Travis 10,577]

Embarrassing and not a surprise.

It was infuriating to hear that interview with 3rd gamer Georgiadis last week saying he enjoyed running around against us with little pressure and being allowed free run to fly for marks. It just shows when we are not switched on we have bugger all intensity around the ground, to the point where even kids can gain confidence and dominate us.

On the other end of the scale, we barely had a rising star nomination in 4-5 years. Not that it's the be all and end all, but it's a measure that shows our kids don't develop as well and take far longer to have an impact or make it. Player development is still the biggest weakness the club has had for decades IMO.

[Return to Glory 8,405]

1 hour ago, Lord Travis said:

Embarrassing and not a surprise.

It was infuriating to hear that interview with 3rd gamer Georgiadis last week saying he enjoyed running around against us with little pressure and being allowed free run to fly for marks. It just shows when we are not switched on we have bugger all intensity around the ground, to the point where even kids can gain confidence and dominate us.

On the other end of the scale, we barely had a rising star nomination in 4-5 years. Not that it's the be all and end all, but it's a measure that shows our kids don't develop as well and take far longer to have an impact or make it. Player development is still the biggest weakness the club has had for decades IMO.

A case in point: from memory, we overloooked Darcy Parish for Clayton Oliver. Now, Parish is a limited footballer and, in terms of raw talent, Oliver would be seemingly miles ahead of Parish. However, I've watched Parish lately and (whether you hate the Bombers or simply despise them) he has now improved at a rate of knots. Most of all, he's become a smart footballer who plays to his limitations and makes good decisions with ball in hand. The gap between the two players is much smaller than it was and I doubt i would have magined this two years ago. How can this be? 

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,592]

Surely it's not true that O Mac has been our most recent nomination in 2006. Can't be right.

Rivers played a very good debut game and may have been on track for a nomination this year, but couldn't keep it up the following 2 weeks.

Kozi may get one later in the year but flashes in and out of games too much.

Charles Spargo may have been a little stiff in 2018 to not get one but hasn't had a sniff since.

 

 

[BW511 2,612]

One of my pet peeves is that other clubs have young guys come in and have an immediate impact.

We have a crop now that were all high draft picks, but we are talking 5-7 years into their careers to actually contribute in a meaningful fashion.

Power are a great example - Rozee, Duursma, Butters have been important players in the Powers rise, despite being 1st or 2nd year players and then Georgiades pops up as a first year player and contributes also.

We seem to pick a lot of project players and by the time they are ready, it might be too late

Edited August 4, 2020 by BW511

[Lucifers Hero 39,082]

49 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Surely it's not true that O Mac has been our most recent nomination in 2006. Can't be right.

Rivers played a very good debut game and may have been on track for a nomination this year, but couldn't keep it up the following 2 weeks.

Kozi may get one later in the year but flashes in and out of games too much.

Charles Spargo may have been a little stiff in 2018 to not get one but hasn't had a sniff since.

I can't see the article but we had 4 in 2016:  Oliver, Petracca, OMac, Harmes and Roos put in a big plug for Hunt in the last few rounds.  None since.

[old dee 23,611]

16 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

I can't see the article but we had 4 in 2016:  Oliver, Petracca, OMac, Harmes and Roos put in a big plug for Hunt in the last few rounds.  None since.

Until last year we keep giving away early picks for senior players.

[faultydet 7,594]

Is anyone even remotely surprised?

 

Another example of the wonderful club culture at Melbourne.

[jnrmac 20,001]

2 hours ago, BW511 said:

One of my pet peeves is that other clubs have young guys come in and have an immediate impact.

We have a crop now that were all high draft picks, but we are talking 5-7 years into their careers to actually contribute in a meaningful fashion.

Power are a great example - Rozee, Duursma, Butters have been important players in the Powers rise, despite being 1st or 2nd year players and then Georgiades pops up as a first year player and contributes also.

We seem to pick a lot of project players and by the time they are ready, it might be too late

The difference might be that at other clubs they're not relying on new players to win games. They have a leadership core that do the grunt work,

 

Our 'leadership' is very sketchy

[Jjrogan 1,416]

Since 2007, Melbourne has lost the most amount of games by a long way.  Only 84 wins from 272.  

Compare to the 'leaders' of this metric hawks and cats.. 182 and 202 respectively. 

The saints are actually the outliers here having won 129 from 272 and yet have 25 nominations against.

Sure, there is a problem with culture. But we also lack the culture of winning.  Win more games, get more votes, nominations and accolades. (And less against naturally)

Ps. You'd rather not want to know the giants have won just 3 less games in 4 less seasons. Egad. 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Jjrogan

[Diamond_Jim 12,426]

the median looks around 17. To be an outlier (27) to that extent is as usual damning. While we may have lost to also give a leg up to first year talent....

[Pates 9,634]

It did almost seem to be a procession of Rising Star nominations against us, every week some random newbie would come in and show some players who had been at the club for 5-8 years how to play football. 

I’d really love to see Jacko get a nomination at some point this year. 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Pates

[Tony Tea 2,806]

I have a mate who used to be high up at a club who told me it was club policy to bring back injured players against weak sides with Melbourne being most often the side targeted to give the returning player a soft reintroduction to league footy.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

33 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

the median looks around 17. To be an outlier (27) to that extent is as usual damning. 

Same as our commanding lead in 'Most goalless quarters'.

Sigh....

[Brownie 5,929]

37 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

the median looks around 17. To be an outlier (27) to that extent is as usual damning. While we may have lost to also give a leg up to first year talent....

We seem to be all about zoning rather than accountability for our opponent.

Also that killer instinct to really rattle first year players / opponents.

[John Demonic 5,650]

8 hours ago, Demonland said:

Ever wondered how Rookie players have fared against the Demons? Well wonder no more ...

How about a stat for players that got Brownlow votes against us, but then did not play many more games in their career and were then traded or delisted etc...?  

That Collingwood intercept defender springs to mind that BOGd a QB 5 or 6 years back.

Edited August 4, 2020 by John Demonic
I think I've just described the Kent Kingsley Award!

[Demonland 70,903]

Debutant alert ? ? 

 

[Every Game in '64 25]

Slam them both first opportunity. Obviously.  - Pies vs Jack Watts for example.

[spirit of norm smith 15,750]

McHenry or McAsey likely to kick a bag !

[Little Goffy 14,251]

Might as well put together a quick best 22.  Yesssss, goooood, let the hate flow through youuu.

 

FF:     T Hawkins  C Curnow    Parfitt

HF:      Rankine     Darling     S Motlop

M:        Murphy     Wines       Constable

HB:       Parish     Grimes       Cerra       

B:         Z Williams     Gardiner    Byrne-Jones

FOLL:       Kelly     Cotchin   Wallis 

INT:   Acres,  Dunstan, Georgiades, J Hill

Emerg:  Hartung,  C Beams, B Sinclair,  B Reid,  B [censored],  Tippett,

[rjay 24,717]

10 hours ago, BW511 said:

One of my pet peeves is that other clubs have young guys come in and have an immediate impact.

We have a crop now that were all high draft picks, but we are talking 5-7 years into their careers to actually contribute in a meaningful fashion.

Power are a great example - Rozee, Duursma, Butters have been important players in the Powers rise, despite being 1st or 2nd year players and then Georgiades pops up as a first year player and contributes also.

We seem to pick a lot of project players and by the time they are ready, it might be too late

Oliver got 2 Brownlow votes in his first game...

We forget quickly.

Should have been AA in his 2nd season & made it in his 3rd.

Yet some want to trade him.

[Elegt 872]

Lets look at our recruits since our last rising star nom and see how much they have offered since being drafted 

Mitch Hannan- too hot and cold

Dion Johnstone-delisted

Lachlan Filipovic-delisted

Tim Smith-delisted

Declan Kielty-delisted

Charlie Spargo-no AFL traits, certain delist

Bayley Fritsch-lacks defensive nous; is probably one of our most promising recruits from this list but looks like he has developed lazy traits and become Melbourne'd

Harrison Petty-looks a bit off the pace and is a candidate for delisting

Oskar Baker-can't make the side

Tom Sparrow-is behind a long list of inside mids at melbourne, may need to reinvent position

James Jordon-heard good things about VFL form but surely should be pushing for selection by now

Aaron Nietschke-chronically injured, will be delisted

Marty Hore-looked like a player however has drifted off-seems at odds with Goodwin and is always injured

Toby Bedford-looked promising rd 1 but couldn't get another game, especially when we are crying out for forward pressure, unsure why he is not being given another crack but potential delist if he can't crack in this year

Kade Chandler-too small

Luke Jackson-raw but looks like he has the tools, good chance to get a nom this year

Kysiah Pickett-praying that he doesn't turn out like a Mitch Hannan clone

Trent Rivers-looks the goods but needs to bulk up, good chance for a nom this year

 

Overall this list is quite poor and am surprised this has not been spoken about before. I hate seeing young kids come in like Georgiades and Rankine come in and kill it from game 1 while our kids can't even get a game. Clearly development is an issue but we also really need to consider whether our recruiting team is the right fit.

 

 

[BW511 2,612]

Not a lot of high end talent in that list because we haven’t had high draft picks. The ball winning directive for recruitment really costs us dearly. The game seems to move in one direction just as we commit to the opposite.

Of the list above, a very low percentage of players actually play in our side. Richmond has a habit of turning VFL players into fantastic AFL role players while we create fringe players at best.

I’ve mentioned it before, but we would not be industry leading in one single area of our club. It seems our ladder position probably is an accurate reflection on how we operate.

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by BW511

[Dee man 302]

Add another one to the list with Justin McInerney from Sydney the latest to get a nomination.