Schwarz: 'Dees are irrelevant'

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

Those that describe the Ox as a simpleton know little. He has great footy IQ and would be a good forward coach. Better than anyone we get doing it at the moment. 

[ding 5,126]

One of the best players we have ever had, and a crying shame his knees robbed him of the lasting greatness he was headed for.

I love that he is still so passionate about the club.

Is he a tiny bit OTT? Maybe, but he has earned the right to be as critical as he wants.

Thank Christ the heat is finally being turn up on this sorry [censored] excuse for a club.

[Sir Why You Little 37,038]

Just now, ding said:

One of the best players we have ever had, and a crying shame his knees robbed him of the lasting greatness he was headed for.

I love that he is still so passionate about the club.

Is he a tiny bit OTT? Maybe, but he has earned the right to be as critical as he wants.

Thank Christ the heat is finally being turn up on this sorry [censored] excuse for a club.

I wouldn’t want to be The Ox’s TV and Remote!!

[Go the Biff 3,423]

2 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I wouldn’t want to be The Ox’s TV and Remote!!

Genuinely LoL'd. Reckon he'd have a decent arm too.

[chookrat 4,250]

2 hours ago, P-man said:

Riewoldt said that “not playing for the jumper” is too simplistic and I agree. Effort is not the issue (with maybe a couple of exceptions). Skill is far and away the main issue.

While the result is that we poorly execute skills I don't see it as a skill issue, but more about poor decision making which includes picking the wrong option and second guessing ourselves to. Whether it is a lack of confidence, poor game plan, lack of cohesion across lines or all of the above only the club really knows.

[P-man 13,366]

7 minutes ago, chookrat said:

While the result is that we poorly execute skills I don't see it as a skill issue, but more about poor decision making which includes picking the wrong option and second guessing ourselves to. Whether it is a lack of confidence, poor game plan, lack of cohesion across lines or all of the above only the club really knows.

Skills and decision making. Lumping the two together. Certainly the decision making is abhorrent.

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

He’s right. No teams fear us, everyone hates us on FTA and our coaches/gameplan are easy to “figure out”

[dice 707]

7 hours ago, Scoop Junior said:

I love the Ox but that article has about as much sense as the inane ramblings of a disgruntled fan 5 minutes after the game after he has had one too many. At least Lyon provided a considered opinion as to what he thinks the problems are.

Yeah right, Garry Lyon. The same guy who was instrumental in appointing (in succession) the 2 worst performing senior coaches at MFC of recent times - Dean Bailey (RIP) and Mark Neeld. Neeld totally destroyed our playing group in less than 2 seasons! Lyon was a terrific and much loved player but for me, his commentary about MFC will always be soured by those terrible and destructive decisions. Pretty sure Schwarz, the "simpleton", would never have recommended Neeld or Bailey to the top job back in those days.

[praha 11,240]

8 hours ago, dice said:

A simpleton? Played nearly 200 games of football at the highest level at centre half forward (the most difficult position on the ground) in an era full of champions! His "football analysis" deserves respect in my opinion.

Maybe I was a bit harsh. He definitely knows his football but my point was that he doesn't go into much depth and actual analysis, it's mostly just emotional commentary.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

10 hours ago, P-man said:

I think it was Gawn who once said something  along the lines of if the supporters are hurting, the players are hurting ten times more.

There are times I really struggle to believe that.

It is hard to believe. How many times have you seen fans at the ground, after a gutting loss, hang around chatting and laughing it up with oppo fans?

Everyone has their heads down and just wants to get out of the joint.

[spirit of norm smith 16,459]

Misguided really. I worked in the building profession for 10 years before moving to design work. I know lots of young blokes with good intent but lacked the tool skills.  I also had blokes with talent but were lazy. Who is easier to fix?  It was often the ones who had the attitude issue that I developed.  

I think many of our blokes already have effort and intensity. They do play and compete. 

But a lot of our players haven’t got the core skills.  It will take real coaching and development because it’s been ignored for years.  Viney and Oliver and even Brayshaw don’t value their possessions.  They give it away too easily.  I’d invest in intense skill training for the whole club.  

[titan_uranus 25,020]

Schwarz's comments are cliches, motherhood statements and guff. Most of what he says is misguided/wrong.

But the general point he's making is true: things aren't working at the MFC.

He cares, just as much as Lyon or anyone else, and he feels the same way many supporters do. His reasoning for it is wrong, but it doesn't matter so much right now.

[Scoop Junior 3,472]

1 hour ago, dice said:

Yeah right, Garry Lyon. The same guy who was instrumental in appointing (in succession) the 2 worst performing senior coaches at MFC of recent times - Dean Bailey (RIP) and Mark Neeld. Neeld totally destroyed our playing group in less than 2 seasons! Lyon was a terrific and much loved player but for me, his commentary about MFC will always be soured by those terrible and destructive decisions. Pretty sure Schwarz, the "simpleton", would never have recommended Neeld or Bailey to the top job back in those days.

You're talking about two different things.

On the coaching issue, you are correct in that Garry was involved in hiring Neeld which ended up being a terrible decision. No one is suggesting otherwise.

I am not the biggest fan of Garry's commentary about MFC generally. But I was using it as a comparison and to highlight the difference between throwing out cliches and actually forming a considered opinion that provides a degree of analysis into what our current problems are. It's pretty clear that our issue is efficiency forward of centre, yet Schwarz doesn't even touch on it.

[old dee 23,791]

12 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

It's a HUN article, so I'll dot point the main parts:

• Says the Dees are irrelevant, as per the headline.
• We need a 'harder edge' - used Luke Beveridge's comments where he said things weren't good enough in a press conference, and they have responded, as the Bont did against GWS.  Who will stand up and do that for us?
• Says not enough players 'play for the jumper'
• That some players only came for the coin - they should want to come to Melbourne, and uses Jake Lever as an example of this (as in he came out and said he wanted to be part of something special).
• Says heads will roll, especially at board level, if this keeps up.
• Then adds the pressure should well and truly be on the club at all levels.

It's not too dissimilar to what Lyon and others have spoken about today, but it's still pretty relevant to how we're tracking right at this minute.

When you say it on the back page of the HUN it gets attention. It is hard for the silent ones to remain silent. Most clubs have either a Chairman or CEO who makes comments to the members / supporters we have neither. 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

Beveridge is the man for the job at the Dees. . He took a Club who had been in the wilderness like us to a flag. He has a hard edge as well as being liked by his players. Ex Demon player as well so he knows the culture.

[Bendigo Demon 115]

He is 100% right. We ARE irrelevant. Our club stands for nothing, our players stand for nothing. There is a complete lack of strong, tough, uncompromising leadership at every level of our club. We have a total inability to develop players. Look at all the high level draft picks we have had over the years who have become nothing. No great player wants to come to our club, because we are seen as irrelevant within the greater football community. As Jeremy Howe CORRECTLY said, he is used to playing in front of no crowds, he played for Melbourne. We are soft, unskilled, weak minded, and are treated as such by the AFL. Look at the fixture we get, every year, SCREWED. Nobody cares, and if our name wasn't Melbourne, we would be in Tassie already. We have NO superstars, not one of our players is seriously an All Australian. We are failures at EVERY level as a club. There is not ONE thing we can hang our hats on.  I am 54, and have given up supporting them. I will not attend a game, or support them in ANY way until they reward me with the same type level of passion I display. I have honestly given up. The club is an embarrassment.

[old dee 23,791]

1 hour ago, Half forward flank said:

Beveridge is the man for the job at the Dees. . He took a Club who had been in the wilderness like us to a flag. He has a hard edge as well as being liked by his players. Ex Demon player as well so he knows the culture.

Why on earth would he leave the dogs to come to us? If he was looking to move it would be up not down.

[old dee 23,791]

1 hour ago, Bendigo Demon said:

He is 100% right. We ARE irrelevant. Our club stands for nothing, our players stand for nothing. There is a complete lack of strong, tough, uncompromising leadership at every level of our club. We have a total inability to develop players. Look at all the high level draft picks we have had over the years who have become nothing. No great player wants to come to our club, because we are seen as irrelevant within the greater football community. As Jeremy Howe CORRECTLY said, he is used to playing in front of no crowds, he played for Melbourne. We are soft, unskilled, weak minded, and are treated as such by the AFL. Look at the fixture we get, every year, SCREWED. Nobody cares, and if our name wasn't Melbourne, we would be in Tassie already. We have NO superstars, not one of our players is seriously an All Australian. We are failures at EVERY level as a club. There is not ONE thing we can hang our hats on.  I am 54, and have given up supporting them. I will not attend a game, or support them in ANY way until they reward me with the same type level of passion I display. I have honestly given up. The club is an embarrassment.

You are not alone.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

13 minutes ago, old dee said:

Why on earth would he leave the dogs to come to us? If he was looking to move it would be up not down.

I did not say he was leaving. Whats the attitude for?

[Bay Riffin 1,474]

3 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Misguided really. I worked in the building profession for 10 years before moving to design work. I know lots of young blokes with good intent but lacked the tool skills.  I also had blokes with talent but were lazy. Who is easier to fix?  It was often the ones who had the attitude issue that I developed.  

I think many of our blokes already have effort and intensity. They do play and compete. 

But a lot of our players haven’t got the core skills.  It will take real coaching and development because it’s been ignored for years.  Viney and Oliver and even Brayshaw don’t value their possessions.  They give it away too easily.  I’d invest in intense skill training for the whole club.  

yes. and its astonishing how that isn't a major objective of the club. build around Lewis. There was a bloke who was a poor kick but ended up very reliable for Hawthorn and Melbourne.

[DemonOX 8,791]

You need a game plan that suits the playing list. 
 

ATM the game plan doesn’t seem to suit the playing list. 
 

If Goody is to survive he needs to change and from what other posters have said he is stubborn, so I won’t hold my breath. 

Team selection this week will be interesting and give us a good indication where Goodys mindset is at. 

[old dee 23,791]

2 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

I did not say he was leaving. Whats the attitude for?

Didn’t think I was giving attitude was just asking a question!

[Redleg 40,925]

17 hours ago, P-man said:

Riewoldt said that “not playing for the jumper” is too simplistic and I agree. Effort is not the issue (with maybe a couple of exceptions). Skill is far and away the main issue.

I don't think AFL players actually play for the jumper. They play for their mates and themselves. 

[tiers 2,838]

David is correct when talking about our influence and impact on the competition. It is a statement of fact that has to be thoroughly absorbed by us all and by the club.

Garry's opinions are directed elsewhere at the skills and performance of the playing group and the seemingly lack of direction and planning by the coaching group.

The players' effort is as good as anyone but their efforts are being squandered and wasted by poor off field direction ie coaching and implementation of a game plan that will make us competitive.

To address David's point we first need to respond to Garry's cry of anguish. I have stated in another post the I believe that Goodwon is not a Goodone. He desperately needs help. I call on the board to find that help for the betterment of our club.

Fix it and we become relevant. I have waited 56 years to attend another premiership. The time is now.

20??

Go dees

 

[Demon3 2,541]

 

7 hours ago, dice said:

Yeah right, Garry Lyon. The same guy who was instrumental in appointing (in succession) the 2 worst performing senior coaches at MFC of recent times - Dean Bailey (RIP) and Mark Neeld. Neeld totally destroyed our playing group in less than 2 seasons! Lyon was a terrific and much loved player but for me, his commentary about MFC will always be soured by those terrible and destructive decisions. Pretty sure Schwarz, the "simpleton", would never have recommended Neeld or Bailey to the top job back in those days.

So who do you blame for Goodwin's appointment? Yep Neeld was bust,  the list he had was arguably teh worst in history, and he never got going. Bailey let the players rule the roost, blame others inside teh club. Ox's ramblings do nothing to help teh club, entitled to his oponion, and he is hurting like all of us, but thats sort of response hurts teh club even more, rational discussion on what the problem is will be far more beneficial. Time to move on from teh Lyon bashing for appointing Neeld.. its along tiome ago.. i dont see Carlton people bashing Kernahan for sacking Ratten and appointing Malthouse.. 

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Demon3