Criticisms of Viney's position are a bit churlish.

His score (323) has an extra element of his leadership role, which we can't rate.  Without that element he probably would have been below Harmes (319) and Petracca (293). 

You could say Viney, Harmes and Petracca were about equal.  Sounds right to me as the difference between their scores is miniscule over 22 weeks.

I'm delightfully surprised with Fritsch's performance and I thought Salem's year was better than the scores show.

Well done to Max and Clarrie.

10 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

There's a little bit of "Co Captain" internal bias there maybe Rjay.  Personally i don't think he was that far off either i just didn't have him down as a 3rd place getter vs say Harmes in particular.  Even though Viney had a stronger second half than his first, i thought Harmes was more consistent and a clear 3rd in comparison.

The Stats i keep support this a little with Viney coming in a close 5th for the year behind Harmes and Salem.  I think what some are seeing here in terms of the amount of surprise with his result (at coming 3rd) is that he appeared to have a pretty poor year vs 2018.  But we need to keep in mind his 2018 was at a very high base, so even coming off that quite a bit he was also surrounded by others that did the same which meant he was still performing at a decent level in comparison.

When looking at the Max ranking below i usually add about 0.80 to 1.00 to his score to allow for a very rough approximation effect of his hit outs to advantage (not captured in the score).  That still puts him slightly below Clarry statistically in 2nd place so the Bluey result didn't surprise me in terms of closeness but i still thought Maxy would win as stats for mids can tend to overate many of the mad flip around disposals at times that don't necessarily achieve anything and i just thought Maxy's general influence/impact and work rate (for a ruckman) throughout much of the year was massive.  The biggest surprise in the top 10 for mine was Hunt, who i personally felt was no where near that this season even though he lifted his performance significantly from the poor season he had in 2018.

Billy Stretch??? The forgotten player.

Does his position on your chart identify a weakness in your otherwise sound analysis?

3 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Take your pick from any of those magnificent five victories

3 by under a goal..........

11 hours ago, Seraph said:

MC can't even get the right Christian after talking to him. Jesus.

Is the single word sentence at the end meant to be confirmation of who the right Christian is? Or is this some sort of clue for religious cryptic crossword fans? Or just maybe it's an inadvertent pun. And all from someone with the angelic name of "Seraph". 

Gets my vote for Demonland post of the year, even if I don't fully understand it.

Congrats to Max. I mean it was always going to be between him and Oliver. I thought Fritta would have been a bit higher. 

The fact viney came 3rd does surprised me. But he did come 3rd by a long way off top spot. 

Gee Petracca came 5th. If one day he actually puts together a consistent full season then he will win one. 

Well that has put a full stop on season 2019. Please lets not go through another season like that again please. 

viney has always polled well, so - given the low scores - it is not a huge surprise

24 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

Congrats to Max. I mean it was always going to be between him and Oliver. I thought Fritta would have been a bit higher. 

The fact viney came 3rd does surprised me. But he did come 3rd by a long way off top spot. 

Gee Petracca came 5th. If one day he actually puts together a consistent full season then he will win one. 

Well that has put a full stop on season 2019. Please lets not go through another season like that again please. 

We follow the MFC.....

1 minute ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

viney has always polled well, so - given the low scores - it is not a huge surprise

That's right - 'the-jump-in-at-costs-bust-my-head-footy', then turn it over

Ok so for anyone that attended last night was there any I side trade whisper? Elliot?

11 hours ago, chookrat said:

To those deriding Viney finishing third you need to get a clue.  Viney is a jet! 

Viney had a horrible season. This is a clear statement of how crap we are as a footy club....Then I look at Richmond on the weekend. We are miles & potentially years away from being anything like that tight knit group. The love & care they have for each other is amazing & their culture is one we could only wish for.

Best and Fairest? Should call it The Least Worst.

 

Maxy and Clarry I like, rest of em... meh. 

First B&F missed in last 5 years, did Pert speak??

Club should have given serious thought to cancelling this activity. Might have finally sent the right message.

21 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Club should have given serious thought to cancelling this activity. Might have finally sent the right message.

Never going to happen DJ it is a money spinner.

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Criticisms of Viney's position are a bit churlish.

His score (323) has an extra element of his leadership role, which we can't rate.  Without that element he probably would have been below Harmes (319) and Petracca (293). 

You could say Viney, Harmes and Petracca were about equal.  Sounds right to me as the difference between their scores is miniscule over 22 weeks.

I'm delightfully surprised with Fritsch's performance and I thought Salem's year was better than the scores show.

Well done to Max and Clarrie.

This has been said by a few on here and I need to challenge it for my own benefit.

What ‘extra elements’ of leadership should Viney poll votes for that any other player showing on-field leadership shouldn’t receive plaudits and votes for because if Viney or any other player is receiving votes for other leadership actions other than ‘on-field’ actions, I’m absolutely confused as to how the B&F works and how it can possibly be in any way equitable. 

5 hours ago, Redleg said:

Interesting that the 2 players who improved performance the most this year could be gone, Billy and Frost.

I'm not taking too much notice of the Stretch improvement vs 2018 Mr Leg.  Last year's score was a very poor data set based on only two matches.  If i was being a perfectionist the comparison should probably have been left out.

Still a good result for this year in isolation but the other side is it's what he's doing with those disposals and how well he's performing re internal FD KPIs for role/ tasks being set eg; pressure acts & spoils/uncontested ground balls, keeping opponent output / impact to a required level etc?  Only my view of course and a very amature one at that.

Frost is the interesting  one and looks like there might be a bit of a log jam between the two parties on $ and / or other factors coming into play.  Hopefully an Elliot one?

P.S. the other issue is so many players had a poor year it does make some selective results look better than they might have been in an ok year or better.

Edited October 1, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

I was totally engaged in the streamed version of the Bluey. Seeing an 83yo Ronald Dale present his leadership trophy to Max was worth the wait. Yes, there were some technical issues but we've come a long way on that front since '64, even though we've seemed incapable of ever moving beyond that 12th premiership. It wasn't so long ago that supporters who didn't attend the B&F would have to rely on a one paragraph report in the Sun, or HS, the following morning. Another highlight was Jon's involvement in presenting James Harmes with the Ian Ridley Memorial Trophy. Max's acceptance speech was uplifting, and Clarrie showed he is developing his ability to present on formal occasions, which he seems destined to experience a multitude of times in future years. I have no problem with the players and officials celebrating together, even after a disappointing year. Its not the GF that signals the end of our year, its the B&F. Now the entire list and the coaches can move on with new resolve! It is no surprise that the internal voting of the coaching panel differs from popular opinion and/or the view of the umpires. It always does... The voting at a B&F gives an insight into what a club values... all place getters deserve respect... and the love that Max refers to!

48 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

I'm not taking too much notice of the Stretch improvement vs 2018 Mr Leg.  Last year's score was a very poor data set based on only two matches.  If i was being a perfectionist the comparison should probably have been left out.

Still a good result for this year in isolation but the other side is it's what he's doing with those disposals and how well he's performing re internal FD KPIs for role/ tasks being set eg; pressure acts & spoils/uncontested ground balls, keeping opponent output / impact to a required level etc?  Only my view of course and a very amature one at that.

Frost is the interesting  one and looks like there might be a bit of a log jam between the two parties on $ and / or other factors coming into play.  Hopefully an Elliot one?

P.S. the other issue is so many players had a poor year it does make some selective results look better than they might have been in an ok year or better.

Didn't realize Billy was based on only 2 matches in 2018 Rusty, so that is a good point.

3 hours ago, dees189227 said:

Congrats to Max. I mean it was always going to be between him and Oliver. I thought Fritta would have been a bit higher. 

The fact viney came 3rd does surprised me. But he did come 3rd by a long way off top spot. 

Gee Petracca came 5th. If one day he actually puts together a consistent full season then he will win one. 

Well that has put a full stop on season 2019. Please lets not go through another season like that again please. 

Oliver was great this season at handpassing to the ground or to a player about to be tackled.

3 hours ago, Laughing Goat said:

Viney had a horrible season. This is a clear statement of how crap we are as a footy club....Then I look at Richmond on the weekend. We are miles & potentially years away from being anything like that tight knit group. The love & care they have for each other is amazing & their culture is one we could only wish for.

3.5 years ago they were about to sack the coach and looked at odds with each other on and off field, especially Riewoldt. On field success breeds cohesion, confidence and coach retention.

Edited October 1, 20195 yr by President Dee Trump

14 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Goodys can’t help with the cliches 

 

14 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Terrible, honestly [censored] terrible. Buckley and Hardwick were the same until they learned to loosen up and actually speak like an actual human. Goodwin won’t connect with the young players talking like that. 

He needs to connect with the younger generation like I do, throw in some ‘radicals’ and ‘groovy’s’ and refer to things as being ‘hip’. Then they’ll think he’s cool and he’ll get their attention. 

Finally got around to watching this. 

Regarding NJ: “He’s lead the club with a great legacy”. 

Nathan must be quite touched by that delightful little word-salad from his coach. Especially when delivered in such a passionate way. 

I was very disappointed when we took on Goodwin. Anyone that followed the Essendon saga closely, was struggling to believe we’d actually reward his behaviour during that period, with such an appointment at our club. I thought that there must have been something particularly ingenious or incredible going on there for us to overlook such a serious transgression (along with the rest of his chequered past). After watching that cyborg struggle through another public address, I’m now going to wholeheartedly embrace these few months until he reappears to frustrate the living hell out of me. 

Oh well. As the person in question muttered in an entirely uninspiring and unconvincing manner at the end of his speech...

...go dees...

Not sure people really understand our season and how this is reflected in the voting.  only 11 players played more than 15 games so the top 10 is basically the players who played out the season.  not a reflection of a good season, eg, Hunt/Gus.

Viney got 3rd as he played most games and put in every week and did not play as badly as a lot on here think (although it was an average year from him).  If we had our best 22 uninjured and Viney put in the same season he would not have made the top 10.  see the 2018 voting results.

so given the above there is not much point complaining or trying to understand the results.

Also, Gawn's season was not as good as 2018, maybe he was influenced by the midfield being so poor but I would say if you looked at both seasons closely he influenced games a lot more in 2018 so i think the votes are fair enough

5 hours ago, dpositive said:

Billy Stretch??? The forgotten player.

Does his position on your chart identify a weakness in your otherwise sound analysis?

A good point DP.  I wouldn't call that table analysis though it's just a very rough / loose guide and needs to be kept in context and viewed warily.  But getting back to your question...

1.  See response to Redleg a few posts up please if you can be bothered.  Bottom line is i would completely ignore his comparative part of the table as Stretch's 2018 sample is too small and, on reflection, should really have been kept in-house and not made public.

2.  With regard to this season -  There is much more data to go on and his 2019 looks quite solid in isolation and also when compared to others.  However, i've also covered this season somewhat in the response to Red.  The only other issues i would add here are... He might have just had enough at his end and wants a fresh change elsewhere?  With Langdon coming in the FD feels Langdon is a better fit to play a Stretch / Hannon type role and with Hannon effectively back in 2020 (fingers crossed) they feel having the two (Langdon & Hannon) covers off one side of the ground on the outside ie., Stretch is superfluous to their needs.  Other factor/s i am completely unaware of (the more likely reason!).

3.  As you are probably already aware ... all data and comparisons using such data should only be used as a very rough / loose form guide.  Caveat emptor if you like.  I don't like to use data in isolation for any sort of absolute call on a player unless i've actually sat and watched a decent amount of footy that matches very closely with the time line of the data set in question.  Too much happens on field that most of the publicly available data (but not all there are a few rare nuggets) will ever capture and is missed unless observing closely.  There is also context to some performances as well like players asked to carry out a lock down role resulting in them getting a poor weighted score but might be close to BOG in terms of completing task at hand.  Player coming back from serious injury needing two to three matches to find some form / match fitness etc.

Having said that i find that this table has been a reasonably decent snap shot to determine rough / general form of a player (and team as a whole....top 22), with a few ordinary exceptions.  Stretch being one of those as discussed.  Far from perfect but it is what it is.

Edited October 1, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

2 hours ago, McQueen said:

This has been said by a few on here and I need to challenge it for my own benefit.

What ‘extra elements’ of leadership should Viney poll votes for that any other player showing on-field leadership shouldn’t receive plaudits and votes for because if Viney or any other player is receiving votes for other leadership actions other than ‘on-field’ actions, I’m absolutely confused as to how the B&F works and how it can possibly be in any way equitable. 

I don't have the answers to all the questions.  So best guess on the 'extra elements' is there are things in his job that are more related to the captain role eg  setting an example, motivating/supporting teammates, ensuring the game plan is being followed, playing the 'General' role and ensuring set-ups occur.  As you suggest all players should be able to do those things but Viney would I suspect have them in his on-field remit. 

But tbh his score differential suggests he didn't necessarily succeed in those, which is what fans have observed.

But that is all guesswork on my part based on what I see other team captains do and how their on-field jobs differ to their players.

Other players may have their own individual on-field KPI's to be scored highly for a game.

That is the best answer i can give.  But my perceptions could be all wrong.

The bnf isn't equitable.  It is skewed in favour of how many games are played.  The more games the more opportunity to get votes.  It usually wouldn't be an issue as most players would play 19-22 games.  This year only 12 players reached those numbers.   10 of those made up the top 10.  Those to miss were Jones (22 games), Hibberd (19 games).

Edited October 1, 20195 yr by Lucifer's Hero

6 hours ago, waynewussell said:

Correct me if I am wrong... but the Bluey Truscott Trophy represents how a MFC player fares when compared to other MFC players throughout the season as judged by the coaching panel, right?

Jayden Hunt was one goal from being our leading goalkicker and had the most goal assists... so he compares favourably with other MFC forwards... no big surprise that he finishes top 10!

Yet he was moved back and dropped late in the year. Also no ANB, yet got a two year extension....