POST GAME: Rd 06 vs Richmond

[DeeZee 7,445]

Why have we not recruited speed when it’s desperately obvious we need it?

We recruit the same type of player big bodied slow mid, Sparrow and Jordan case in point?

Wheres the excitement factor?

The run?

[old dee 23,871]

18 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Why do you still follow the club WYL? I wouldn’t be able to bring myself to watch games or log on to Demonland if I thought the situation was irredeemably hopeless.

Can you provide some evidence for contra position Nasher?

[rjay 25,087]

2 hours ago, Nasher said:

Depth is overrated. Our biggest issue is our most important structural players are playing like crap.

Depth players always look great when the team is flying and ordinary when the team sucks. They are the effect, not the cause.

Agree re depth 'Nasher', have always believed depth to be over rated.

...but let me add something.

Whilst our important structural players aren't playing well I would also suggest they don't have a solid structure to work too.

I would also suggest we don't have enough important structural players.

If we had an injury free team our spine would still be missing key forwards and we don't have enough class off half back or around the middle...that's not to mention no soldiers creating serious forward pressure.

[DemonOX 8,800]

14 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

We are soft and lazy. 

The Richmond Way - tough grit. Knock on.  Shepherd. 1%s. Tackle hard. Man the mark.  Chase. Run and run and run and run. Smother.  Stand up.  Deliver the footy. Run to create ahead of the footy.  

Our effort is not there for 4 quarters. 

The thing that typifies our season/effort imo was in the second quarter (I think) Frost did the team thing and went to cover Brayshaws man and then the ball went to Reiwoldt and Brayshaw flung his arm out in an attempt to tackle then basically stood there and watched him run away and have a shot at goal which resulted in Martin getting it in the goal square and Kicking the goal. 

I like Brayshaw a lot but that to me was pathetic and shows the attitude of the players and why we are where we are atm. 

I hope it gets highlighted by the coaches in the review. 

Edited April 25, 2019 by DemonOX

[sisso 2,580]

I just hope we don’t have to wait another 10 years for another half decent season, the ROI on membership isn’t looking too flash right about now

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

44 minutes ago, Cam Schwab's Whiteboard said:

For anyone at the game, was the press still as tight as it has been? Hard to tell on tv, but it looked like the same super-aggressive press, just maybe 20m further towards Richmond's goal.

If anything they pushed higher,  but it may have been because I watched from behind the goals instead of my usual home game seat flank /wing. 

I don't understand why the coaches persist with this. Works well as you saw in the first qtr when we are fresh,  we set up a few goals from half back with run.

Problem is they spend all their petrol tickets and there's nothing left in the tank. The press becomes our downfall because every other team is fitter and their run n chase constantly put our playmaker  under pressure causing turnovers because we are not running to present to the player with the ball.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

I had a chance this morning to back and flick through some of the highlights from the Geelong and Hawthorn finals, as well as our games against GWS and West Coast.  It was nice to see us playing good footy, but I was more interested in how we went forward of centre.  And what made us so good in those games is all out of whack so far in 2019.

One of our most important players in that span was Mitch Hannan.  Go back and look at the footage - he is either kicking goals for us, or he is an important link in the chain.  He hasn't played a single second for us this season.

What about AVB?  His crunching tackles, pressure around the footy and the ability to slip into the midfield is greatly missed.  He also has a knack of getting himself into good positions to win the footy and hit the scoreboard.  He hasn't played a minute this season.

We know where we are at with Tom McDonald and Weideman.  Tom looks like a bloke who couldn't be further out of form if he tried, and having off season surgery again makes him look as though he is only 70% fit at best.  In those games above he was clunking marks and kicking goals in each of them.  We don't have that now.  Weideman is a young kid well down on confidence and form, and he is contributing next to nothing for us at the moment due to that.  He is running under the footy a bit and it feels like he is almost clunking marks, but he drops most of them.  We know how good he was in both finals, but he looks a mile off it at the moment.

Another one who flies under the radar in those games is Spargo.  Again, footage from those games has him very much involved in a large chunk of our goals.  He is either winning some 50/50 balls and dishing off to set up goals, or he is nabbing a few himself.  He is another young kid way down on form.

From those games, you can also make a correlation to how fit we are and how hard we are running.  You can see the midfielders working hard to support each other and to run both ways.  We probably sustained it for more periods last night than in any of our other games, but with off season surgeries and possibly some players not putting in the hard yards, we are still playing catch up in this regard.  We just can't keep up with a quality team like Richmond.

What it amounts to is a midfield that is constantly under pressure, and when we deliver the ball forward we are either missing some vital cogs or kicking it to players who have zero confidence.  The outcome is very much what you saw last night and the week before.  We can't hit the scoreboard and we can't connect well enough through the midfield and the forward line to fix it.

For me, this will be a hugely disappointing season, but this is not the end of the world.  I'm not looking at this list like I would have in 2013 and gone 'bloody hell, where is the improvement going to come from?'.  I'm looking at a list that is learning some extremely harsh lessons, ones that will hopefully bruise our ego a little and get us to sit up and take notice.  They crapped on last night about the Tigers having the five youngest players, but the fact still remains that we still have a young list, one that is being exposed in a big way.  I am confident with the talent we have in place, and the changes that may come in the off season to the coaching and fitness staff, that this season will be the anomaly and that we can well and truly improve in the coming weeks, months and years.  

This just might be the season we had to have to get there.

[layzie 33,991]

Thought sleeping on it might help do a proper review but it didn’t, the 2 hours sleep doesn’t help matters.

The intent from the outset was there and we ran hard to cover and spread (at least try to spread) but we did not have the cutting edge or composure to record a win and we are quite a way off last night’s opposition, who really didn’t play all that well. 

It really is quite incredible how we just wanted an effort last night. This really looked like a bottom ladder team having a crack and every little bit of good fortune coming from sheer hard work because the talent gap between the two sides was so big. Which is absolute bunk as we know. 

I don’t know, no-one seems to know. But my word I am getting sick to death of everyone I come into contact with asking me “What is wrong with Melbourne?” “What happened? They were in the preliminary finals last year?” You know, the kind of token idiot water cooler questions. I’m so sick of trying to explain this as it usually needs more than 5 mins and is a waste of my precious energy. 

Ala Saturday no potting of players, just the positives: Viney’s workrate was great but is not fast and is limited in the chaos ball game, Oliver seems to be intent on kicking more now after all the talk about how he doesn’t kick enough. I was one of those people, but it may have taken a bit away from a great handball first player. Marty Hore continues to impress me immensely, backs into packs and uses it well. Lockhart must stay in the side for the next month straight at least. Weideman is presenting but he really needs to hold a few more. Frost is working his end off and it has to be said. 

Ended up at the Social in Swan and then for the 3rd Anzac eve in a row, Maccas in Richmond for a sorrow drowning BM. Man that’s sad! I would have driven last night if it wasn’t humanly impossible to find parking and make it before the Anzac service (which was worth going to the game for alone mind you). Realised PT was on stupid time so ended up getting an Uber back east and then driving a friend home to Kensington, hit the hay at 3, up at 5 and yeah here I am. 

[DV8 2,271]

14 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Petracca needs a rocket up his rear end ..  looks like has a poor engine & question his fitness . No second effort & cant hold tackles which goes back to fitness .. 

Hunt strength was running out of defence with his speed but his kicking lets him down .. is not a forward 

 

 

He's a plodder... He just shuffles about the field, hoping someone will kick it to him.

He is going in, atmo...  when the contest is in his area,  but he is not rushing into contests with any speed or intent.

His extra weight and any residual strength from that size isn't serving him well, at all.

 

He IS wasting his talents ... He is far too comfortable in his position...  and nothing ha been asked of him since Roosy cracked it with him,  for doing his knee in what Roosy thought was being undisciplined.

[Mickey 4,731]

[DemonOX 8,800]

God I would love Roos to come back as a senior assistant to Goody but it won’t happen unfortunately. 

[DV8 2,271]

4 hours ago, Sorry kids said:

Maybe Max

That would be a good way to wreck max's game.

He's not that type to tell others what they Have to do.

 

IMO the extra pressure and intensity expected of him,  I think could wreck his own game,  and he will get targeted. 

 

[Elegt 872]

The only way up is to recruit players with pace. We are getting outrun every week. Sack mission and sack taylor

[dazzledavey36 55,318]

3 minutes ago, Elegt said:

The only way up is to recruit players with pace. We are getting outrun every week. Sack mission and sack taylor

You've said this in every single thread there is. We got your message the first time [censored] you hate Jason Taylor and Dave Misson.

Try coming up with something new.

[loges 6,767]

3 hours ago, Deehumanizing said:

Hogan was pushed out, I believe he would have stayed. It made lesser forwards (Tmac and Weid) play out of position.  As second and third talls they could win their positions. All the others were reasonable decisions, the bad call problem was the replacements. None have made us a better team yet. Some may work out in the future.

Pretty sure T Mac was the number 1 forward for the West Coast, GWS, Geelong  and Hawthorn games so what has happened ?

[Damo 3,374]

To clunk a mark, your hands need to be clapping at the football. Weiderman is jumping with both hands facing forward. He isnt going to mark any like that. Really if anyone needs to be dropped, its him.

[Mental Demons 136]

2 minutes ago, loges said:

Pretty sure T Mac was the number 1 forward for the West Coast, GWS, Geelong  and Hawthorn games so what has happened ?

We had better team play and more forward support. We also misread Hogans value and importance and thought we could do without his expensive next contract and would get more for him now than if we let him walk then. 

[Cards13 9,117]

56 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I had a chance this morning to back and flick through some of the highlights from the Geelong and Hawthorn finals, as well as our games against GWS and West Coast.  It was nice to see us playing good footy, but I was more interested in how we went forward of centre.  And what made us so good in those games is all out of whack so far in 2019.

One of our most important players in that span was Mitch Hannan.  Go back and look at the footage - he is either kicking goals for us, or he is an important link in the chain.  He hasn't played a single second for us this season.

What about AVB?  His crunching tackles, pressure around the footy and the ability to slip into the midfield is greatly missed.  He also has a knack of getting himself into good positions to win the footy and hit the scoreboard.  He hasn't played a minute this season.

We know where we are at with Tom McDonald and Weideman.  Tom looks like a bloke who couldn't be further out of form if he tried, and having off season surgery again makes him look as though he is only 70% fit at best.  In those games above he was clunking marks and kicking goals in each of them.  We don't have that now.  Weideman is a young kid well down on confidence and form, and he is contributing next to nothing for us at the moment due to that.  He is running under the footy a bit and it feels like he is almost clunking marks, but he drops most of them.  We know how good he was in both finals, but he looks a mile off it at the moment.

Another one who flies under the radar in those games is Spargo.  Again, footage from those games has him very much involved in a large chunk of our goals.  He is either winning some 50/50 balls and dishing off to set up goals, or he is nabbing a few himself.  He is another young kid way down on form.

From those games, you can also make a correlation to how fit we are and how hard we are running.  You can see the midfielders working hard to support each other and to run both ways.  We probably sustained it for more periods last night than in any of our other games, but with off season surgeries and possibly some players not putting in the hard yards, we are still playing catch up in this regard.  We just can't keep up with a quality team like Richmond.

What it amounts to is a midfield that is constantly under pressure, and when we deliver the ball forward we are either missing some vital cogs or kicking it to players who have zero confidence.  The outcome is very much what you saw last night and the week before.  We can't hit the scoreboard and we can't connect well enough through the midfield and the forward line to fix it.

For me, this will be a hugely disappointing season, but this is not the end of the world.  I'm not looking at this list like I would have in 2013 and gone 'bloody hell, where is the improvement going to come from?'.  I'm looking at a list that is learning some extremely harsh lessons, ones that will hopefully bruise our ego a little and get us to sit up and take notice.  They crapped on last night about the Tigers having the five youngest players, but the fact still remains that we still have a young list, one that is being exposed in a big way.  I am confident with the talent we have in place, and the changes that may come in the off season to the coaching and fitness staff, that this season will be the anomaly and that we can well and truly improve in the coming weeks, months and years.  

This just might be the season we had to have to get there.

Wise good clubs can plug in for a Hannan or AVB (who has played bugger all footy) seriously it is an indictment or our club that we can’t find a replacement for those 2. Where is Tracc stepping up to do part of what both of those guys do? Where is ANB taking another step up?

Tmac is what top 5 paid at the club now... he needs to improve dramatically. He’s  worthless to us as a nullifying, fumbly, puts his team mates under pressure defender at that price. 

Weid.... how has he not learnt to not run under the ball? Where is his presenting up at the ball? Is it a symptom of the just bomb it fwd kick under pressure or not?

Its depressing that we’re a fair chance to be bottom of the ladder by tomorrow night.

PS it’s a wasted season.... a terrible waste of a season a year of a career for these players.

Edited April 25, 2019 by Cards13

[Lucifers Hero 40,359]

31 minutes ago, Good Lord George said:

Thank you.

I take heart from someone within the club saying our game plan is an issue (ie it isn't just the players):

"we might need to look at that [the way we play].  We've been beaten pretty much the same style each week"

Lewis is saying Clarkson did just that in 2010.  Hope Goodwin can be flexible and creative?

Edited April 25, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Pennant St Dee 13,304]

3 hours ago, old dee said:

Good clubs keep good players and then there is the MFC.

you need to give up following the MFC it's bad for your judgment and health.

Your posts over the 6 weeks of the season show that. 

Things are never as bad as they seem and they are never as good as they seem 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Wise good clubs can plug in for a Hannan or AVB (who has played bugger all footy) seriously it is an indictment or our club that we can’t find a replacement for those 2.

I tend to disagree on that.

I think it would be much easier to plug those gaps if the players who are available were doing what is expected of them.  Horror form and not being fit enough means Weid, Tom Mac, Spargo etc aren't even close to providing what we need out of them, and that hurts across the board.

I would agree that Trac does need to step up a little, no doubt about that.

Also, if you look at last night, we took one of our most damaging forwards in Melksham and had him run through the middle for most of the night.  It was a good move in my book as I thought he gave us some real drive through the middle, but it also took another link in the chain away from the half forward line.

And also, guys who might plug the gaps, like a Joel Smith or a JKH, are injured as well.  Depth only goes so far, and there is a reason that some of the guys we have coming in are depth players and not best 22.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, Pennant St Dee said:

you need to give up following the MFC it's bad for your judgment and health.

Your posts over the 6 weeks of the season show that. 

Things are never as bad as they seem and they are never as good as they seem 

I often wonder why some on here still support the club.  They waffle on about putting up with it for X amount of years, like it's some sort of badge of honour.  You almost expect them to be walking in the ANZAC Day parade, wearing old membership pins and beanies from the 70s so people can clap them and thank them for their efforts.

[Cards13 9,117]

1 minute ago, Wiseblood said:

I tend to disagree on that.

I think it would be much easier to plug those gaps if the players who are available were doing what is expected of them.  Horror form and not being fit enough means Weid, Tom Mac, Spargo etc aren't even close to providing what we need out of them, and that hurts across the board.

I would agree that Trac does need to step up a little, no doubt about that.

Also, if you look at last night, we took one of our most damaging forwards in Melksham and had him run through the middle for most of the night.  It was a good move in my book as I thought he gave us some real drive through the middle, but it also took another link in the chain away from the half forward line.

And also, guys who might plug the gaps, like a Joel Smith or a JKH, are injured as well.  Depth only goes so far, and there is a reason that some of the guys we have coming in are depth players and not best 22.

We’ll have to disagree, they’re not word beaters in those 2. Good clubs would fill those holes in some way, “down of form” is a cop out for mine.

10 days to go through it all again.  

[Elegt 872]

21 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

You've said this in every single thread there is. We got your message the first time [censored] you hate Jason Taylor and Dave Misson.

Try coming up with something new.

Goodwin needs to stop persisting with out of form players and give kids a run. Kielty petty Baker and Chandler are all in the 2s and need a run. They might not have earned games but it's a good way to find out whether they should be kept or delisted at the end of the year.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

Why have we not recruited speed when it’s desperately obvious we need it?

We recruit the same type of player big bodied slow mid, Sparrow and Jordan case in point?

Wheres the excitement factor?

The run?

It's a fair point DZ, and I know @Redleg will be nodding along vigorously.

But when we think about our drafting over the last couple of years, what has been the area we have been crying out to fix?  Our key defensive stocks.  I don't think as a supporter base that we can deny that.  So we went out and fixed it with May and Lever.

From there, I think we have tried to add a little pace and run (Baker and Bedford come to mind, as well as KK) with the picks we've had.  I know some are already bemoaning the pick of Sparrow, which is harsh on a kid in his first year, but who are the players picked after him in the draft that we should of targeted?  Not many have come into their respective sides, let alone brought blistering pace.

I think we will continue to address the issue, but we went out and sorted some other areas before that, which is understandable.