Dees Need to be More Intimidating

[Demonland 64,807]

? | https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-demons-must-find-the-power-to-intimidate-20190328-p518fy.html

[FireInTheBennelly 4,024]

Agree 100%. I couldn't believe what I was watching last week.

[dazzledavey36 48,734]

Personally i think this has been a bit of an overreaction, how easily people forget last year we were one of the most intimidating teams going around.

It was 1 game...

We will be back to our intimidating best this weekend.

[Lucifers Hero 37,008]

Haven't we done this topic to death?  Different commentator, same stuff. 

Carey could easily have written the same lack of intimidation story about North, Ess or Eagles.  All were physically bad.  It must be 'feed on the Dees week'. 

I'm over it. 

[Smokey 4,126]

I'm with the others. I think this has been covered enough. Don't get sucked in to the outrage porn. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,151]

Ever since quarter time of JLT 1 V's Richmond, it just seems like the club has been a non entity. I can't put my finger as to what's going on at the moment - aside from an interrupted pre-season.

From poor performances in all 3 games, to poor discipline in JLT 2,  to gross injury mis-management (Smith) to players and on-field leaders not sticking up for one another. The whole club needs a massive wake up and realise that the wholy grail was not beating an injury riddled Hawthorn in a semi final.

And speaking of our leadership group, is it any wonder we fell apart last week when you've got:

Gawn - playing his career worst game

Jones - dropping and/or fumbling 3 basic marks/ground balls in the last qtr

Viney - looking 30% fit

T Mac - Has he even played a game this year?

The remainder of the players aren't going to lift if their leaders are collectively having a pathetic performance

 

[rjay 23,903]

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Personally i think this has been a bit of an overreaction, how easily people forget last year we were one of the most intimidating teams going around.

It was 1 game...

We will be back to our intimidating best this weekend.

Agree 'dazzle', we've been flat as a tack...

...now that we know the new AFL rules I expect there will be plenty of gut punches & fines handed out this week.

 

[Deemania since 56 6,134]

9 minutes ago, Demonland said:

? | https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-demons-must-find-the-power-to-intimidate-20190328-p518fy.html

Max has no support, that is why.

Our key defensive drivers in Hibberd and Frost also receive no support. Our key defensive interceptor (Nev) also has no support. When played as a backman, Salem has no support.

May in the side will make a difference, providing physical and proximal support across his backline and Lever's contribution will assist this as his speciality is interception and screening. Then Nev, Max, Hibberd and Frosty can shine more assuredly.

At present, Nev beats his direct opponent, then supports and mops up the exponential errors of OMac after beating his own opponent - and usually another opposition attractant, as well; this leaves Nev and his workload extraordinarily loaded against a common average of three opponents; Hibberd provides some support in clearances yet also receives virtually no support for his own clearance efforts; Frosty realises that support just ain't coming in a clearance and must use his pace to evade and make ground  as a sole clearance exponent whilst others watch against proliferated hell and high water attackers - and the plural of such riff-raff is intended.

Our defenders are isolates. It starts with supports from all directions for OMac and the well-anticipated expectations of major deep defensive problems that revolve around OMac and his circular waltz of evasion. People tend to blame Frosty - but with support, he could be our absolute clearance expert in three dimensions.

Great teams provide abundant supports to playmakers: physical, territorial and proximal. They even share roles and responsibilities in ensuring the effectiveness of 'a play' at any point of the ground. Perhaps if our players, in general, considered Maxie's needs more fully, they might see the need to support him in any way that they can - not just sit back and admire the effort and possible performance highlights onfield. This type of playmaking would significantly reduce the 'bombing' that we are characterised by - and hard-working champions, like Max, could get on with their dominance of the match. 

[KingDingAling 3,596]

I felt sorry for Max Gawn. He was getting smashed up from pillar to post, and not one of his teammates flew the flag. Thankfully May comes back in this week, a side with Steven May in it wouldn't side by idly and watch Gawn get battered. I know a side with Jake Lever in it sure as hell wouldn't either - as that kid has serious hands (players know it). Look forward to getting Lever back. After last week I'd say Jack Viney's reputation took a slight dent. As a player most others consider to be hard and play on the edge, he sat by and did nothing whilst Gawn got hit contest after contest, and often by slight on players who were doing it just because they could see others were getting away with it. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,580]

I actually think missing Vanders hurts us a bit in this area - he is such a bull.

That said, we have pleanty of other big tough battle hardened guys like Viney, Jones, Jetta, Harmes,  Pattraca, Melksham, Hibbard, Salem, T Mac and Co that missing one guy shouldn't be the end of our physical presence.  I fully expect the guys to respond this week.  If we really do think we need a bit of extra physical bite, then throw in the big Preuss monster to iron out some hand baggers - we are not committed to playing him every week, so shouldn't matter so much if he gets suspended.

I can't fully explain our slow start to the year in a way that doesn't sound like it's just making excuses, but we were one of the best, if not the best contested ball sides last year, so I'm not really concerned that it's a toughness or willingness to work thing.  If anything, I think last week we feel into the trap of getting too many guys sucked into the ball and then getting burnt on the outside.  Pretty hard to win contested ball when the ball isn't in a contested situation.

[3183 Dee 2,602]

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Personally i think this has been a bit of an overreaction, how easily people forget last year we were one of the most intimidating teams going around.

It was 1 game...

We will be back to our intimidating best this weekend.

Totally agree - it was a big part of our game last year, with a couple of exceptions - notably the Prelim Final. The sooner we get the swagger back, the better.

[gregdemon 530]

3 hours ago, FireInTheBelly said:

Agree 100%. I couldn't believe what I was watching last week.

Neither could I  expect a furious response

[Adzman 2,085]

May's inclusion makes us more aggressive as a team. He is a bull, and will make us harder to play against. 

 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,580]

6 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Max has no support, that is why.

Our key defensive drivers in Hibberd and Frost also receive no support. Our key defensive interceptor (Nev) also has no support. When played as a backman, Salem has no support.

May in the side will make a difference, providing physical and proximal support across his backline and Lever's contribution will assist this as his speciality is interception and screening. Then Nev, Max, Hibberd and Frosty can shine more assuredly.

At present, Nev beats his direct opponent, then supports and mops up the exponential errors of OMac after beating his own opponent - and usually another opposition attractant, as well; this leaves Nev and his workload extraordinarily loaded against a common average of three opponents; Hibberd provides some support in clearances yet also receives virtually no support for his own clearance efforts; Frosty realises that support just ain't coming in a clearance and must use his pace to evade and make ground  as a sole clearance exponent whilst others watch against proliferated hell and high water attackers - and the plural of such riff-raff is intended.

Our defenders are isolates. It starts with supports from all directions for OMac and the well-anticipated expectations of major deep defensive problems that revolve around OMac and his circular waltz of evasion. People tend to blame Frosty - but with support, he could be our absolute clearance expert in three dimensions.

Great teams provide abundant supports to playmakers: physical, territorial and proximal. They even share roles and responsibilities in ensuring the effectiveness of 'a play' at any point of the ground. Perhaps if our players, in general, considered Maxie's needs more fully, they might see the need to support him in any way that they can - not just sit back and admire the effort and possible performance highlights onfield. This type of playmaking would significantly reduce the 'bombing' that we are characterised by - and hard-working champions, like Max, could get on with their dominance of the match. 

So 56, without trying to sound too cleché, what I think you are saying here is that we are a soo much better side when everyone plays to our system together and works hard for each other.

I still think O Mac has a contribution to make to the side, but if he doesn't lift his game, he might need to go back to Casey to find is form, confidence, hunger or whatever he is lacking at the moment.  He seems to have got something of a charmed life as a footballer in our senior team to this point, so to get bought back down to earth, made to fight hard for his spot and given an opertunity to fix some aspects of his game could actually be a good opertunity for him, if that what eventuates.  Playing at his best I think he can provide good value to the side.

Edited March 28, 2019 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[DeezNuts 624]

7 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I actually think missing Vanders hurts us a bit in this area - he is such a bull.

That said, we have pleanty of other big tough battle hardened guys like Viney, Jones, Jetta, Harmes,  Pattraca, Melksham, Hibbard, Salem, T Mac and Co that missing one guy shouldn't be the end of our physical presence.  I fully expect the guys to respond this week.  If we really do think we need a bit of extra physical bite, then throw in the big Preuss monster to iron out some hand baggers - we are not committed to playing him every week, so shouldn't matter so much if he gets suspended.

I can't fully explain our slow start to the year in a way that doesn't sound like it's just making excuses, but we were one of the best, if not the best contested ball sides last year, so I'm not really concerned that it's a toughness or willingness to work thing.  If anything, I think last week we feel into the trap of getting too many guys sucked into the ball and then getting burnt on the outside.  Pretty hard to win contested ball when the ball isn't in a contested situation.

This... we have the depth to make a statement or two and accept a (what was it last week, only a $2000 fine, followed by a statement of ‘I’d do it again’) short term reprimand. 

Bring in Preuss, bring in AVB ASAP, and let’s put some weight behind the expectations.

[DeezNuts 624]

3 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

So 56, without trying to sound too cleché, what I think you are saying here is that we are a soo much better side when everyone plays to our system together and works hard for each other.

I still think O Mac has a contribution to make to the side, but if he doesn't lift his game, he might need to go back to Casey to find is form, confidence, hunger or whatever he is lacking at the moment.  He seems to have got something of a charmed life as a footballer in our senior team to this point, so to get bought back down to earth, made to fight hard for his spot and given an opertunity to fix some aspects of his game could actually be a good opertunity for him, if that what eventuates.  Playing at his best I think he can provide good value to the side.

Yeah I think that’s what 56’ is saying, the collective system and the recognition of the interdependencies between talents needed to be solidified. In simple terms, the players may have been so focused on securing their individual positions in what is a tightly competitive team for selection, that they forgot the fundamental that they will be judged on a team performance, not their individual efforts. 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,151]

10 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

O Mac seems to have got something of a charmed life as a footballer in our senior team to this point

Can't disagree with that statement.

He needs a rocket to kick start his season (like many others).

[roy11 2,926]

Need to sit down some players and show them some Matty Whelan clips aha

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,580]

7 hours ago, DeezNuts said:

This... we have the depth to make a statement or two and accept a (what was it last week, only a $2000 fine, followed by a statement of ‘I’d do it again’) short term reprimand. 

Bring in Preuss, bring in AVB ASAP, and let’s put some weight behind the expectations.

If only it was so easy to bring in AVB, he is recovering from some agitation to the pretty serious foot injury that kept him pretty much game less for 18 months - quite happy for the medical department to play it cautiously.

I actually think we are in a position at the moment when our depth is somewhat being tested, so I don't think we can afford to loose too many to undisciplined acts of stupidity.  On the cusp if the season we lost Jeffy, Hannan, J Smith, AVB, Lewis, T Smith, JKH, with the first five of the aforementioned particularly hurting us I believe.

But anyways we are at where we are at and there is more than enough tallent and experience in the team selected against the Cats to win the game.  All about application.

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,580]

29 minutes ago, roy11 said:

Need to sit down some players and show them some Matty Whelan clips aha

Gee I loved the way Wheels played. 

We did have a few great tough players in that era - Todd Viney, Leoncelli, Rigoni, Junior Mac, Davey.  Nathan 'Doggy' Brown was one of my favorites as well.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,397]

On 3/28/2019 at 2:51 PM, Lucifer's Hero said:

Haven't we done this topic to death?  Different commentator, same stuff. 

Carey could easily have written the same lack of intimidation story about North, Ess or Eagles.  All were physically bad.  It must be 'feed on the Dees week'. 

I'm over it. 

I find everything Carey says and writes is so 1990s. Hardly surprising since he was the best player in that era. But it all just seems a bit dated now.

[Deemania since 56 6,134]

8 hours ago, DeezNuts said:

This... we have the depth to make a statement or two and accept a (what was it last week, only a $2000 fine, followed by a statement of ‘I’d do it again’) short term reprimand. 

Bring in Preuss, bring in AVB ASAP, and let’s put some weight behind the expectations.

Nearly walked into AVB outside the Ponsford Stand before the game against Port. Side-stepped as a courtesy to let him pass unrestricted. In actual fact, side-stepped as described for my own safety! The guy looks really fit, super healthy, he is enormous from the top of his head to his feet - far bigger, wider, stronger, muscularly deeper, agile and charming - than he looks in the statistics book and on the field.

He is a mountain. You wouldn't know by his gait and bearing (very impressive, at that) that he was injured at present awaiting a recall when 'things' are right again. As a greeting, I told him that we cannot win games without him, wishing him well with the 'recovery', and he smiled, pleasantly saying he'd be back ASAP and that it would hopefully be very soon. I felt like I did years ago, running into another giant (Barry Round of 'Doggies fame) by accident in a doorway  who was equally reserved, polite, with that perfect 'big-man' humility and respect for his team's fans. Gee whizz - AVB is impressive - and we may indeed struggle without his unique input to our charge for the finals. 

[Deemania since 56 6,134]

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Gee I loved the way Wheels played. 

We did have a few great tough players in that era - Todd Viney, Leoncelli, Rigoni, Junior Mac, Davey.  Nathan 'Doggy' Brown was one of my favorites as well.

Leoncelli and Rigoni - a footballing dream co-operative. Davey and Doggie - one hand fed the other. Then the Mac brothers, at different times/seasons, and their contributions. LIke 'em all in the team, now. 

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

Another overpaid ex-footballer regurgitating the same stuff we've heard all week. He even stole the main gist of his story from Watts' own observation of the stark difference between his debut game and that of his Port team mates. It was a completely different game, different teams, different occasion, different administration, different times. Please, at least be original. I suppose Hird will be the next one to have a go at Melbourne in his new role with his irrevelant views. Won't care one jot what he says either. *Yawn*

 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,580]

1 hour ago, Dame Gaga said:

Another overpaid ex-footballer regurgitating the same stuff we've heard all week. He even stole the main gist of his story from Watts' own observation of the stark difference between his debut game and that of his Port team mates. It was a completely different game, different teams, different occasion, different administration, different times. Please, at least be original. I suppose Hird will be the next one to have a go at Melbourne in his new role with his irrevelant views. Won't care one jot what he says either. *Yawn*

 

For the most part, I think there is a big difference between my respect for the ex-players in the media that have and haven't coached.  So easy for these good ex-players to spout their gobs off about the issues with team performance when they haven't coached and don't actually know or have the skills, experience and application to influence team performance.

I haven't heard guys like Paul Roos going all panic stations over one or two games.  As Goody says Fugazi.  I have faith that our coaching brains trust have dissected the actual factors most influencing our relative under performace and have put in place strategies to address them and it won't just be "stop being soo soft".